RealGM

JUST 1 QUICK QUESTION! Why the hell is Doc and DA playiong Scal as the back up 3 when the Giddens and Walker are balling in the D leg. I know D leg is the not the NBA but they could prob. do better than Scal at some point.

N-V-da-Green wrote:JUST 1 QUICK QUESTION! Why the hell is Doc and DA playiong Scal as the back up 3 when the Giddens and Walker are balling in the D leg. I know D leg is the not the NBA but they could prob. do better than Scal at some point.

Most of the backup SF minutes go to Ray Allen, or Tony Allen.

Brian Scalabrine sees time against bigger SF's (someone like Andrei Kirilenko),
and also plays against mobile perimeter oreinted PF's and C's like
Dirk Nowitski, Rasheed Wallace and Mehmet Okur.

So, Scal gets the matchups where he is well suited,
and most of the time Ray Allen or Tony Allen are the backup SF.

Giddens and Walker have no where near Tony Allen's ball handling ability,
so they are probably two years away from being able to help on the wing.

Giddens has an NBA SG's quickness, but is still developing a skillset like
dribbling, shooting, and knowing what to do on offense and defense.
Giddens is 1/2 inch taller than Tony, and more powerfully built, though.

Walker is not as quick as Giddens, more like an SG's size with an SF's quickness.
But Walker doesn't have Tony's ball handling ability, or knowledge of the game.

Their D-League performances are not necessarily meaningful in terms of
predicting NBA performance because Giddens and Walker are so much
quicker and bigger than other D-League wing players.

But, when you compare Giddens or Walker to NBA players,
it's a completely different story.

For example, let's use mediocre Philadelphia as an example.
Giddens would draw Andre Iguadala at SG, and
Walker would draw Thaddeus Young at SF.

Iguadala is bigger, stronger and just as quick as Giddens;
Thaddues Young is bigger, quicker, and just as strong as Walker.

Now, if Giddens or Walker could beat Iguadala or Young on a drive;
unlike the D-League; where the PF's and C's are too slow to rotate to cover;
in the NBA,
Philadephia has shot blockers like 7' Samuel Dalembert and 6' 10" Mareese Speights
ready to challenge Giddens and Walker if they could get by Iguadala and Thaddeus Young.

Both Giddens or Walker need to develop pull up jump shots, turn around jump shots,
and 3 point shots to be effective wing players in the NBA.

Right now neither one of them has an effective pull up or turn around jump shot.

Scal getting minutes only proves that we need a decent big off the bench if we want to repeat.

Jammer wrote:

N-V-da-Green wrote:JUST 1 QUICK QUESTION! Why the hell is Doc and DA playiong Scal as the back up 3 when the Giddens and Walker are balling in the D leg. I know D leg is the not the NBA but they could prob. do better than Scal at some point.

Most of the backup SF minutes go to Ray Allen, or Tony Allen.

Brian Scalabrine sees time against bigger SF's (someone like Andrei Kirilenko),
and also plays against mobile perimeter oreinted PF's and C's like
Dirk Nowitski, Rasheed Wallace and Mehmet Okur.

So, Scal gets the matchups where he is well suited,
and most of the time Ray Allen or Tony Allen are the backup SF.

Giddens and Walker have no where near Tony Allen's ball handling ability,
so they are probably two years away from being able to help on the wing.

Giddens has an NBA SG's quickness, but is still developing a skillset like
dribbling, shooting, and knowing what to do on offense and defense.
Giddens is 1/2 inch taller than Tony, and more powerfully built, though.

Walker is not as quick as Giddens, more like an SG's size with an SF's quickness.
But Walker doesn't have Tony's ball handling ability, or knowledge of the game.

Their D-League performances are not necessarily meaningful in terms of
predicting NBA performance because Giddens and Walker are so much
quicker and bigger than other D-League wing players.

But, when you compare Giddens or Walker to NBA players,
it's a completely different story.

For example, let's use mediocre Philadelphia as an example.
Giddens would draw Andre Iguadala at SG, and
Walker would draw Thaddeus Young at SF.

Iguadala is bigger, stronger and just as quick as Giddens;
Thaddues Young is bigger, quicker, and just as strong as Walker.

Now, if Giddens or Walker could beat Iguadala or Young on a drive;
unlike the D-League; where the PF's and C's are too slow to rotate to cover;
in the NBA,
Philadephia has shot blockers like 7' Samuel Dalembert and 6' 10" Mareese Speights
ready to challenge Giddens and Walker if they could get by Iguadala and Thaddeus Young.

Both Giddens or Walker need to develop pull up jump shots, turn around jump shots,
and 3 point shots to be effective wing players in the NBA.

Right now neither one of them has an effective pull up or turn around jump shot.

Jammer - I completely appreciate your post, but I disagree with you on several points.


Giddens has both a handle and a jumpshot. Go on youtube and watch highlights of his senior season at New Mexico. Yes, he's both a great athlete and defender, but he can get his own shot and his pull-up "J" is pretty decent too. Furthermore, he's got range on his jumper (as the highlights will show as well).


With regard to Walker, he definitely needs to work on his handle, but his "J" is actually better than people think. He's shooting 35% from deep in the D-League and his form on his jumper is solid.

cisco wrote:Scal getting minutes only proves that we need a decent big off the bench if we want to repeat.

Yep...

I am ok with Scal in limited minutes, but we need another big off the bench ala PJ from last year...Unless O'Bryant comes around.

Hi My Name is DANNY AINGE wrote:I am ok with Scal in limited minutes, but we need another big off the bench ala PJ from last year...Unless O'Bryant comes around.

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for that one

Godmoney wrote:

Hi My Name is DANNY AINGE wrote:I am ok with Scal in limited minutes, but we need another big off the bench ala PJ from last year...Unless O'Bryant comes around.

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for that one

No kidding...this has "BUST" written all over it...

3 things- Scal is very familiar with our team defense, even if he gets beat he is going to rotate correctly and the overall D doesn't break down.

Also, Scal barely sees the floor, which doesn't exactly stunt his non-existent growth as a player at this point. Giddens and Walker on the other hand are playing serious minutes and working on their games.

Third, Scal is a 3 position back-up, being able to poorly fill in at Sf, Pf, and C. Giddens and Walker are pretty much a SG and SF respectively, and while they could possibly bring a little more in limited minutes to their respective position Scal is a more versatile and experienced stop gap in case of emergency, which is a good thing to have at the end of the bench. You really want to see PO'B as the emergency center? He's so raw salmonella can't stomach him.

I am hopeful he is just "showcasing" Scal. But the real reason is probably the mental errors rookies make drive coaches nuts. Whereas the errors Scal makes - are physical.

I think Scal is just keeping the spot warm for either Walker or another small forward that becomes available via trade or free agency.

Perhaps they'll switch Walker for Pruitt in a month or two once they feel he's ready. We'll have to just wait and see.

Jammer wrote:

N-V-da-Green wrote:JUST 1 QUICK QUESTION! Why the hell is Doc and DA playiong Scal as the back up 3 when the Giddens and Walker are balling in the D leg. I know D leg is the not the NBA but they could prob. do better than Scal at some point.

Most of the backup SF minutes go to Ray Allen, or Tony Allen.

Brian Scalabrine sees time against bigger SF's (someone like Andrei Kirilenko),
and also plays against mobile perimeter oreinted PF's and C's like
Dirk Nowitski, Rasheed Wallace and Mehmet Okur.

So, Scal gets the matchups where he is well suited,
and most of the time Ray Allen or Tony Allen are the backup SF.

Giddens and Walker have no where near Tony Allen's ball handling ability,
so they are probably two years away from being able to help on the wing.

Giddens has an NBA SG's quickness, but is still developing a skillset like
dribbling, shooting, and knowing what to do on offense and defense.
Giddens is 1/2 inch taller than Tony, and more powerfully built, though.

Walker is not as quick as Giddens, more like an SG's size with an SF's quickness.
But Walker doesn't have Tony's ball handling ability, or knowledge of the game.

Their D-League performances are not necessarily meaningful in terms of
predicting NBA performance because Giddens and Walker are so much
quicker and bigger than other D-League wing players.

But, when you compare Giddens or Walker to NBA players,
it's a completely different story.

For example, let's use mediocre Philadelphia as an example.
Giddens would draw Andre Iguadala at SG, and
Walker would draw Thaddeus Young at SF.

Iguadala is bigger, stronger and just as quick as Giddens;
Thaddues Young is bigger, quicker, and just as strong as Walker.

Now, if Giddens or Walker could beat Iguadala or Young on a drive;
unlike the D-League; where the PF's and C's are too slow to rotate to cover;
in the NBA,
Philadephia has shot blockers like 7' Samuel Dalembert and 6' 10" Mareese Speights
ready to challenge Giddens and Walker if they could get by Iguadala and Thaddeus Young.

Both Giddens or Walker need to develop pull up jump shots, turn around jump shots,
and 3 point shots to be effective wing players in the NBA.

Right now neither one of them has an effective pull up or turn around jump shot.

...actually Walker and Giddens have quite a few NBA ready offensive tools, just not "title-contention" level games yet...

Walker and Giddens both need to work on ball-handling, but both are at least on a level that is on par with any ball-handling Tony Allen showed before this season - Allen has improved, but he was playing quality minutes in the NBA before this season with a weaker handle...

Walker has a very solid turn-around jumper off ISO in the post and is excellent a flash and basket cuts - needs to improve the consistency of his finishes, but he is effective offensively from 17 feet and in...perimeter shot needs work, but pull-up in his range off one or two dribbles is good enough to set up a drive - can't ISO from perimeter very effectively yet, but baseline or FT extended he'd be decent and against a recovering defense he'd be dangerous...

Giddens is NBA-ready right now IMO, he can shoot the ball well on set 3 point shots and has a solid off-the-dribble game, including knocking down shots and making assisted plays for others...shot of screens - especialy down-screen curls to the FT line extended will be a weapon for him, (think Harpring)...ball-handling is shaky, but he uses his extremely long arms to keep the dribble wide, if not always as low as it needs to be...movement off-ball is outstanding, gets offensive rebounds and uses baseline cuts to great effect, (Ronnie Brewer style).

Both players need to continue to improve their knowledge of the game, but both have ready-to-wear skills that could be used today, if the team was forced to utilize them...the difference is that the veterans on this team, including Scal, have such a superior knowlege of this team and what they are suppose to do in a given situation, their execution is just going to be light years ahead of either Giddens or Walker...

But, If Giddens could bring his confidence to the parent club, he could certainly play a Tony-Allen role on this team now, the problem though is two-fold:

1. Tony Allen needs those minutes to be effective and has been effective while receiving them
2. Giddens showed that he is very much in awe of the the GPA Celtics and cannot seem to "act like he belongs" just yet.

When Giddens is mentally ready to bring his confidence to the next level, he'll be a contributor-worthy player, but there is still no slot for him right now without messing with TA...possibly they could do an either-or type deal where TA gets the early nod in the first half and if he isn't in a groove then Giddens gets the 2nd half nod, but that is pushing the envelope with both player's confidence issues.

Bill Walker is further away - he is getting called for a number of TO's that wouldn't be called on him in the NBA, but he is still getting into traps and needs to work on reading the game on the court...his mid-range shot is starting to look really nice, but he is still playing defense as if he has the option of just shutting down the opponent - he must learn to play the odds defensively and position himself to take away options, not just square up and tell his guy to "bring it on."

Both players have long-term potential and IMO they will reach their developmental ceilings, but this team has some players in front of them and I don't think they will be rotation players this season and not heavy minutes guys next year either most likely...

Jammer I dont know if you have watched any of the Games or even better last nights game. But, my point was put on blast last night. Scal is NBA ready and has the experience in out system to be ok however, when ur up 20-25 points y not see what Giddens and Walker can do against NBA back ups ? Scal is somewhat of a liabilty on the Offensive side on D he can somewhat play the team d but he isnt really fit nor made to man up 3's, 4's or even 5's. I not saying throw them in as the back up 3 in a tight game but a month in the season we are on a roll it really wont hurt.

Bill Walker just tied the game on a monster dunk over two guys, and then hit his free throw to put the Flash up 1. Walker's scored 25, and grabbed 5 boards on 9-12 shooting. Giddens has 15 points and 9 boards so far.

Dakota beat the Flash 101-98. Dontell Jefferson missed a three to tie it at the buzzer.


Here's a link to the boxscore:



http://www.nba.com/dleague/games/boxsco ... 2020800045

Sure those guys are better than Scals, probably a lot better. But how would bringing them up really help? Scals plays (1) during blow-outs and (2) against bad teams. If you check his game log, you'll see that Scals has played a total of 3 minutes in a competitive game against a quality opponent so far this year (all in the game against the Magic). So would you really want to trade all the great experience Walker/Giddens are getting right now with the Flash for 3 minutes of improved play against Orlando (a game we won anyway, for what it's worth)? The only way it might make sense to bring Giddens/Walker back would be if you thought that 10 mpg of garbage time in the NBA will help them develop faster than a full game of intense play in the NBDL. I don't think that's very likely though. guess they also might improve some in practice if they were here, but again, it's not the same as getting real minutes in actual games.

You might be right about his minutes Captain, but it seems like he hurts the team whenever he's in there. Maybe Paul and Ray would be able to rest more if we had a player that doesn't suck coming off the bench at small forward.

cfan79 wrote:You might be right about his minutes Captain, but it seems like he hurts the team whenever he's in there. Maybe Paul and Ray would be able to rest more if we had a player that doesn't suck coming off the bench at small forward.

I think people really seem to undervalue the ability to know where to be on defense and being in the right position. I will not dispute that he is a twelfth man, who in most circumstances should only play in blowouts.

However, it is to the success of this team to understand the defensive scheme and to be committed to it on every possession. Scal does that, and he moves his feet surprisingly well (including a nice stint guarding Travis Outlaw several games ago).

Watching Giddens, he is active which is nice, but so is Tony Allen. And Giddens was completely lost from a team perspective. I haven't really seen Bill Walker on D but I have to assume it is somewhat similar. It is better that they get a lot of reps in the D League (also to cut their turnover proneness).

Until we acquire another big who can be in the right positions, Scal has a place on the team, like it or not. And while his offense is a disaster, his defense is not the albatross it would be if Giddens or Walker were out there.