Tony Allen needs to step up or he needs to go

[return2glory]

Tony Allen hasn't been playing well the last 3 weeks. IMO, he needs get traded or benched. This was a guy we were rlying on to replace some of what Posey brought. But TA hasn't done that on a consistant basis. We need more from him that solid defense.

Looking ahead to the playoffs, we need improvement from the bench. Our biggest weakness on the bench is a wing player and a tall center that can play(that rules of POB). TA is having trouble finishing and doesn't get to the line as much as he used to. Once at the line, he is struggling.

I like TA but he is mentally weak and can't be trusted in big games. It might to be to bench TA if he keeps playing like this.

[FederalePDT]

Thank God. I said this bout a week ago and I got blasted from all directions cause hes supposedly our best defender on the team. He guesses on defense and looks foolish out there 80% of the, and offensively the shots he throws up are pure garbage. he forces it too much.

I said it before and I'll say it again. I'd trade Tony Allen for a basket of practice balls at this point. His play is horrible and its nauseating to watch.

[Barry Lird]

I completely agree, r2g. He cannot be relied upon. We really need another reliable tall big, and a reliable swing. I'm fine with the PG rotation, but trusting TA as our primary swing backup in the playoffs will not be good.

[JR Hawks]

What's sad is that TA could probably be considered our 6th man.

Yet he wouldn't even crack the rotation for the other top tier teams in the league.

[JR Hawks]

What's sad is that TA could probably be considered our 6th man.

Yet he wouldn't even crack the rotation for the other top tier teams in the league.

[threrf23]

This is overreaction. He played solid D in the 4th quarter tonight and on offense - some bad plays but some of his TOs/bad shots were simply the result of good defense by the Lakers.

If anything, we need to utilize him better. The comments above I believe are indicative of why it would be idiotic to trade him right now. Thats what people see when they watch him but all things considered he is a much more effective player than he gets credit for, IMO.

I'll add - from what I can gather our bench is playing just as well if not better than it did second half of last season. Last year our lead would routinely disappear somewhat when our starters went to the bench. Tony's on/off court +/- stats are currently better than Posey's were last year

[Bad-Thoma]

If we address a weakness on our bench it should be getting some veteran height (please Motumbo, please), everyone on the bench could be upgraded (that goes for every team), we should worry about the weakest link first. I do agree that he needs to find his offensive game again though, he has been pretty inconsistent.

[MVP16]

Talk about overreaction. Yeah, TA has to pick up his play. But Powe has been a bigger reason for the poorer bench play IMO. He has regressed from last year instead of making a leap. We have to get more from our big men off the bench and Powe is the one who has to provide it. Big Baby is playing better then Powe right now.

[PPAW4Life]

I really hate the +/- stats.....every time either Ray or Paul plays with the 2nd unit their individual +/- goes down into the negative and I know it's not Ray or Paul's fault.

[s1ickd]

you guys are absurd.

tony allen took it to the hoop aggressively with some success, played the passing lanes very well, and did a hell of a defensive job on Kobe.

he had a couple dumb turnovers.

all james posey did here on offense was sit and wait for the open 3. on defense, he'd back off a guy and stick out a hand when they tried to shoot. i dont call that "stepping up". he's overrated.

tony allen isn't much better, but he isn't the type of guy we need to trade because he's underpreforming.

[JR Hawks]

you guys are absurd.

tony allen took it to the hook aggressively with some success, played the passing lanes very well, and did a hell of a defensive job on Kobe.

he had a couple dumb turnovers.

all james posey did here on offense was sit and wait for the open 3. on defense, he'd back off a guy and stick out a hand when they tried to shoot. i dont call that "stepping up". he's overrated.

tony allen isn't much better, but he isn't the type of guy we need to trade becaus ehe's underpreforming.

Are you seriously comparing Tony Allen favorably to James Posey?

You can throw out speed, leaping ability, etc. James Posey has a high basketball IQ. Tony Allen, on the other hand, could play the lead role in the basketball version of "I am Sam".

[shobe_81]

This guy is quick as a cat and very aggressive.

[threrf23]

Are you seriously comparing Tony Allen favorably to James Posey?

You can throw out speed, leaping ability, etc. James Posey has a high basketball IQ. Tony Allen, on the other hand, could play the lead role in the basketball version of "I am Sam".

I'm just saying they both have their strengths and weaknesses, and if Tony was really falling so short of what we got from Posey last season all things considered....you would probably be able to find at least some sort of objective evidence which pointed towards that possibility. But no matter how you twist the relevant stats and facts that doesn't seem to exist right now. Thats all.

[Dogen]

I've defended Tony on this board since he was drafted (I liked the pick, but may have taken Varejao or Vujacic over him or D West). I'm sorry to say that with the various injuries, TA seems to have peaked already. He doesn't have quite the same explosiveness and the disruptive defensive play only happens every few games. What's even more concerning is that neither his offensive philosophy (Drive! Drive! Drive!) or his shot have improved much over the past few years. Tonight I found myself fantasizing about having JR GIddens out there instead of Tony. At least JR might hit an open jumpshot.

[shortfuse3]

the loss of James Posey really hurt this team and their bench. he was their only 3-4 tweener that could hit 3's consistently. i saw a few times during the game where the celtics passed to tony allen wide open behind the 3 pt line and he missed horribly, whereas james posey wouldve been automatic.

dont know much about tony allen except he looks like a slasher. his shooting mechanics are awful and i dont see him improving a lot there. celtics need a 3 who can spot up shoot. a guy like vlad rad could fill that hole.

without james posey the celtics lost a lot of clutchness and toughness. posey was the only guy besides pierce who could body up lebron and kobe. yesterday's game looked exactly like last year's finals except the celtics didn't hit the big shots at the end. spacing on the floor is also a little worse. rondo can't penetrate as well since guys sag off tony allen. c's shouldve went after brent barry last offseason.

[Allanon]

I think Shortfuse3 has it on the money. The loss of Posey is probably the main reason why the Celtics lost yesterday.

Tony Allen is a decent defender but he's not physical like Posey was. Kobe shot over 50% yesterday.

And if this was any indication of the future, the Celtics will have issues with LeBron as TA isn't nearly as big or physical as Posey was.

The other point is the 3 ball. Late in the game, Tony Allen bricked a 3 pointer, I think Posey would have made the same shot. Also, at the end of the game, Ray Allen put up a contested 3 ball which got blocked by Pau and led to the dunk by Ariza, Posey would have been an excellent option on that play.

The Celtics bench last year was one of the best if not the best. But this year, they seem to be a liability against the better teams giving up leads. I believe I read somewhere that the Big 3's minutes have gone up drastically over the last year, which may make them more tired in the Playoffs.

[Pogue Mahone]

I think Shortfuse3 has it on the money. The loss of Posey is probably the main reason why the Celtics lost yesterday.

No offense but I got to cry bull. The Celtics lost yesterday because their offense sucked and not because of some defensive shortcoming. Sure, they allowed more than their season average in points per possession (about 8 points more per 100 possessions.) Conversely, they scored at about -15.0 points per 100 possessions worse than their season average.

James Posey isn't a bad player but he isn't deserving of the rockstar, cult status, either. Last season, Posey used ~11.19 possessions per 40 MP. Even assuming 30 MP last night (roughly all of the minutes of Tony Allen and Glen Davis), he would likely have used about 8.39 possessions. Sure, those ~7.60 additional possessions that were used by Davis and Allen would likely have been redistributed amongst teammates, but of the 8.39 that Posey was using, likely 1.04 would have resulted in a turnover. Again, just going by last year's numbers, those Posey possessions would have likely resulted in 8.37 points.

Defensively, playing him at PF (with Powe at C) would have caused us some major difficulties on the 2nd unit (even assuming Garnett was in the game.) No thank you.

Posey wasn't as good for the Celtics as he is credited for being.

Tony Allen is a decent defender but he's not physical like Posey was. Kobe shot over 50% yesterday.

I am personally not a fan of 27-year old SGs who lack focus but in fairness to Tony Allen, the majority of the damage Kobe did was against Ray Allen.

And if this was any indication of the future, the Celtics will have issues with LeBron as TA isn't nearly as big or physical as Posey was.

First off, the 'issues' against the Lakers last night were not defensive. When you can hold the 3rd best offense in the league to below league average efficiency, you have done your job defensively. The problem was on the offensive end of the floor. Now, if you were to say "the Celtics can't compete, consistently, with Tony Allen using a lot of possessions and most of those possessions being jump shots", I might agree with you. Then again, the same could be said of Big Burger Davis.

Secondly, in their only meeting of the year, the Celtics held Lebron to 9-21 from the field and he shot only 4-8 from the line. Sure, a long, mobile quick forward with some strength would be nice but James Posey has lost a step (at least) and just isn't as good of a defender as hyperbole would have you believe.

The other point is the 3 ball. Late in the game, Tony Allen bricked a 3 pointer, I think Posey would have made the same shot.

Perhaps Posey would have made it but he would have been torched repeatedly attempting to cover Bryant. Posey was really only good for us playing PF against soft tweener forwards on the defensive end. Yeah, I am talking about Lamar.

Also, at the end of the game, Ray Allen put up a contested 3 ball which got blocked by Pau and led to the dunk by Ariza, Posey would have been an excellent option on that play.

You are giving Ray Allen way too much credit here, imo, by assuming he would have been looking for the open man in that situation. Ray is not a playmaker and he dilly-dallies with the ball when he should give the ball up, shut the **** up and look to convert the opportunities given to him. If he can't play that role the Celtics need to find someone who can.

[return2glory]

Another bad game by Tony Allen. It's getting time to bench him and bring up Walker or Giddens.

[celtics543]

Tony makes me sick every time he dribbles the ball down the court. I can just see the bad ideas forming in his head. I'm ok with his defense, but his offense is terrible. He just seems to bullrush the rim and throw it up, hoping it goes in. He can't shoot at all, so having him and Rondo in the backcourt isn't good because the defenders can all sag off.

The only problem is that I'm not sure Walker or GIddens is that great of a shooter either. What I'd do against smaller teams is play Gabe Pruitt with House, because both are good shooters, and against bigger teams I'd go with Pruitt and Walker. Nothing against House, but Pruitt can actually dribble it up the court against Pressure.

Obviously the best way to remedy the shooter problem would be to sign or trade for someone who can shoot. Like the Jazz did last year with Kyle Korver, if we had him instead of TA, our defense would take a hit, but no one would be able to sag off of him, and the lanes would be open for Pierce/Garnett/Rondo etc.

[e in boulder]

I think Shortfuse3 has it on the money. The loss of Posey is probably the main reason why the Celtics lost yesterday.

Actually, the reason we lost on Thursday is because we scored 2 freaking points in the last 4 minutes of the game.

Posey was a gamer, but our 4 losses this season had absolutely nothing to do with a lack there of.