Teams have figured us out!

[BillessuR6]

“That’s now the blueprint on how to beat us, so we just have to counter that,” Allen said. “Put a big guy on (Rondo) and just force him to shoot.”

Link: http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/bask ... rticleFull

There is also a good video from SevenSecondsOrMess of how the knicks beat us:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLPDOiFY39Y


I think it all started last year in the finals when LA put Kobe on Rondo. This year more and more teams are putting long defenders on him and are making him shoot. We struggle mightily every time this happens, so what can we do tactically to counter it?

One solution, of course, is for Rondo to start taking and making jump shots. But since he can`t really shoot that is not an option. We could also play House more but I guess his inability to make plays would hurt us just as much as Rondo not being able to make shots. That is why signing someone like Marbury would help us. He just adds a new dimension to this team.

So what to do? How to counter this?

[lastgh0st]

That was a great video. I just wanted to point out another thing SevenSecondsOrMess points out multiple times. "Knicks showed a defensive intensity not seen all year." On this 6 game 'slide' the Kings and Wizards just didn't show that kind of spirit, but we are seeing this almost every night. I think if teams are playing off Rondo it has to be combined with good rotations/solid help or we can still beat them with a few good passes.

Trouble is look at some of our defensive sets he pointed out. When we are playing on all cylinders we have an amazing amount of deflections but you see in the video slow rotations and us getting spaced out. That 4-5 3 point shooters has always got to us but the Knicks game was just a bit of laziness mixed in as well.

I think the big guy on Rondo means we can't be lazy, can't walk through parts of the game, not an end all be all to beating us. If when Rondo's man runs off him Rondo can't just stand around, if we overload the defence (like how you beat a zone) then one of the other starters can peal off when the overloaded defender has to guard against Rondo's penetration. That's my idea anyway.

If my memory serves me right the lakers started with Kobe on Rondo in game 2? So we still went 3-2 against a finals caliber team with 'big man on Rondo' being implemented. Anyways, I'm still for Marbury for much of the reasons you said. We can get regular match-ups and they have to defend his outside shot plus his penetration ability. So then maybe when we are lazy it doesn't show as much.

[cloverleaf]

The good news is that the C's are being forced to deal with it now, not just in the playoffs.

Rondo may need a little more experience to deal with it--either using his speed to get around the big or slowing down when forced to take a jumper (he seemed incredibly rushed with his shots in that video), but the answer is not to simply replace him with Marbury.

[Tricky Ricky]

Stop panicking, I think the losses are simply from teams outplaying us.

The LA loss we got no calls
the GS loss we were outplayed in the 4th
the Portland loss Portland played an unbelievable game where Blake couldnt miss
and the Knicks loss the Knicks played better than they will again this year.

Theyll get it right.

[sully00]

The issue with Rondo is not from last season it is new. Rondo responded this season to being left open in the postseason by the Cavs and Lakers and was killing teams doubled off him or simply played the passing lanes. Now teams are taking away his dribble penetration and giving him full attention. Obviously knocking down some jumpers would be the solution and that may or may not happen. More importantly the team had gotten real comfortable with Rondo running the offense and got kind of lazy on the offensive end.

Some of this is on Ray but mostly it is on KG, he has been pretty subpar on the offensive end this season. I don't mean to disrespect the guy he is still killing it defensively and he is actually doing a better job of working in the paint offensively, and I actually think he was trying to allow Rondo and Perk as well as Ray to get more involved in the offense. It is tough to fix what isn't broken but it is time for KG to get more involved early in the shot clock. Pierce has been the only guy on this team who has recognized the need to step up the offensive intensity but we all know what him doing too much is going to lead to.

The bench situation was pretty predictable, the current bench rotation never really made any sense. We didn't have a playmaker off the bench last season that is why we went and got Cassell and now we don't have a scoring option without Posey as Leon has cooled off and we end up with Scal. In the preseason it looked like Pruitt would be the playmaker on the unit with House providing some shooting and Allen and Powe some scoring but that is not happening. I don't know if Pruitt is really in the plans this season or not if he is now is when you would expect his role to expand.

Eddie House is who he is and that isn't going to change. The Marbury talk also seems to be effecting both him and Allen as it did with Sam last season and he starts pressing. In the end KG needs to start making teams play for guarding him one on one and we need to find a playmaker for that bench even if he is crazy with a tatoo on the side of his head.

[Dave_From_NB]

Basketball is a game of constant adjustments. Teams don't put together a game plan in pre-season, and then stick to it with no changes through to the end of the season. Celtics are aware of the issue, they have some practice time, and will devise ways of working around it.

The Kobe on Rondo example is a good one. It worked for a while until the C's adjusted to it. I forget, how did that work out for LA in the end? (sic)

[Man_Up]

Stop panicking, I think the losses are simply from teams outplaying us.

The LA loss we got no calls
the GS loss we were outplayed in the 4th
the Portland loss Portland played an unbelievable game where Blake couldnt miss
and the Knicks loss the Knicks played better than they will again this year.

Theyll get it right.

I don't get what your saying. What part of being outplayed by mediocre teams is acceptable?

[Tricky Ricky]

Stop panicking, I think the losses are simply from teams outplaying us.

The LA loss we got no calls
the GS loss we were outplayed in the 4th
the Portland loss Portland played an unbelievable game where Blake couldnt miss
and the Knicks loss the Knicks played better than they will again this year.

Theyll get it right.

I don't get what your saying. What part of being outplayed by mediocre teams is acceptable?

Your putting words in my mouth now, I never said it was acceptable its embaressing if anything. Im just saying teams havnt figured us out, we need to stay competitive with every team in the league and not play down to competition.

[Hemingway]

The short of it is Rondo will have to learn to hit the open jump shot. Tommy has said that you just have to keep shooting, you dont start making them until you have been missing them. Rondo is starting to shoot more. Fortunately we are in a great place to let Rondo keep shooting until he gets it. Most games we have enough talent to let Rondo miss a few shots and still win the game. Like someone else said, better we struggle with this now and have it fixed come playoffs.

[Kefa461]

This is why they play 82 games....to figure out **** like this....Rondo is young, a more seasoned Pg would have already known what to do. A big man on a little man.....Rondo should have IMHO, cleared the floor every time and broke his ankles (the bigger player) going to the hoop or found the open shooter until they (the other team) got the hint. Rondo's got the moves....he's just got to use them.

[humblebum]

Yeah, why Rondo doesn't get more clearouts is beyond me. And yes he needs to shoot the ball. One because I think he can make a decent percentage of the wide open shots he gets and Two, because it leads to better floor balance, spacing, and continuity. It means less overdribbling and more passing, cutting. It's just time to cut Rondo lose and let him make his mistakes. The team needs to up his usage on the offensive end even if it's the detriment to his efficiency. Because I believe that the team simply seems to play better when Rondo becomes the focal point offensively (especially pushing tempo) rather than having him stand in the corner and watch.

[return2glory]

I think we have figured us out more than other teams have figured us out. One nights when Rondo can't hit a shot, we have no one to go to off the bench. We have PG's are don't complemet each other. We have Rondo that can dish but can't shoot. We have House that can shoot but can't dish.

We need a back up PG that can do a little of each. House ain't that guy. We need a big off the bench that can shoot. McDyess would have been perfect for us. Joe Smith can also fit that role. But neithe one is on our team. We are figured out our weaknesses and so are other teams.

[celticfan42487]

this.. is new?

We played 4 on 5 all playoffs because of Rondo's lack of any shot whatsoever. That's why House would look so good, because our offense would have spacing when he was in and that made all the difference.

Want to see examples of it, look at the CLE and DET series. You don't even need a big guy on Rondo.. because you don't need anyone.

Zone your bigs around the hoop, Throw your PG for a double team on whomever you want.

I'm sorry but this piece just seems about a year old.

[SuigintouEV]

Putting a bigger guy on rondo was counteracted in the finals because fisher and sasha couldn't really guard ray allen.
in the hawks series, rondo might have caused the celtics to be upset, but the sheer talent won them the series.
in the cavs series, the average score was probably like 75ppg for both teams. Defense and paul pierce won that series.
in the detroit series, KG flat out dominated for some reason billups just didn't create the havoc neccessary to exploit rondo.

Going into the playoffs this year, the celtics need better point guard play because the competition is better. Either that means rondo being less of a liability, or a guy like marbury stepping in and helping the team.

[Bgil]

If my memory serves me right the lakers started with Kobe on Rondo in game 2? So we still went 3-2 against a finals caliber team with 'big man on Rondo' being implemented. Anyways, I'm still for Marbury for much of the reasons you said. We can get regular match-ups and they have to defend his outside shot plus his penetration ability.

Kobe on Rondo started in game 3 (all the games are on youtube BTW). So technically it was 2-2 after that point. 3-2 in favor of the Lakers if you count the Xmas day game. There's also a game in there where Rondo got hurt and Eddie House played the game of his life. On average, I think Kobe-on-Rondo is enough to change the series as long as Eddie House doesn't explode.

Marbs is an awesome pickup for you guys... that's why I hope he ends up in Miami

The LA loss we got no calls

No one got any calls. Kobe didn't shoot a single free-throw. Last year Powe, Brown, and Posey gave you guys the advantage in toughness and this year I think the loss of Posey/Brown and the inclusion of Bynum and Ariza take away that advantage.

The bench situation was pretty predictable, the current bench rotation never really made any sense.

If you guys aren't able to make any solid acquistions I think a good move would be to bring Ray Allen off the bench- Manu Ginobili-style. At the very least Doc should stagger the rotations so at least one of the big 3 are always on the floor.

in the detroit series, KG flat out dominated for some reason billups just didn't create the havoc neccessary to exploit rondo.

Pulled hammy, remember?

Putting a bigger guy on rondo was counteracted in the finals because fisher and sasha couldn't really guard ray allen.

Ridiculously true. Hopefully (for us ) Ariza does a better job.