Rondo needs to come off the bench

return2glory · Post #1 » by **return2glory** » Thu Jan 8, 2009 10:22 am

Rajon Rondo has been struggling a lot lately. His outside shooting has not improved his last year. He really hurts this team when he passes up open shoots. He also needs to develope a floater like Chris Paul from about 10-12 feet. Rondo also seems to be pressing a little because his turnovers are up lately.

Now I'm not saying bench Rondo and not play him. I'm saying still give him about 25-28 minutes off the bench. This move will also help the 2nd unit because Rondo can create for players like Powe and Davis, something that this team lacks. This move will also allow us to get Eddie House off the 9 man rotation. House is struggling even more than Rondo.

In the meanwhile, we can start Pruitt and give him valuable experience with the starters. I'm not calling Pruitt to play starter minutes, but about 25 minutes a night. Pruitt can give the offense a lift with his shooting. This move will also help KG because KG won't be doubled as much because we will has more shooters on the court with Gabe, Paul, and Ray. Gabe

At this point, we have nothing to lose. We have already lost 6 of 8. I feel this move will help both the starters and the bench.

BillTheGOAT · Post #2 » by **BillTheGOAT** » Thu Jan 8, 2009 10:46 am

i like to have rondo with the starting unit,he's not a leader with the 2nd unit,and have pruitt as a 6th man and eddie taking rays place with starters, then pruitt and ray comes from the bench 6th and 7th.perkins shouldn't start anymore, put POB in, bill walker instead of pierce and let KG start.
Pierce is 8th man and perk 9th.
starters, rondo/eddie/bill/POB/KG
bench, pruitt/ray/pierce/perk

BillessuR6 · Post #3 » by **BillessuR6** » Thu Jan 8, 2009 10:50 am

That will never happen! But I do agree with you that Pruitt needs to get more minutes in favour of Rondo and House.

I said a season ago that RR isn`t the best fit for this offense because he can`t shoot and I still think so. Rondo is better than I ever thought he would be but he is just too inconsistent. When he is on he looks like an allstar but when he is off he looks like a NBDL player.

Last year in the playoffs we saw how much he struggled on offense on the road and that hasn`t changed. We can not afford to keep playing 4 on 5 in close games. We saw what happened against the knick and yesterday against the rockets. The big three gets double teamed every time off of Rondo and we can not capitalize on that because he can`t shoot. His inability to stretch the floor puts too much pressure on the big three in the last few minutes and our execution suffers because of it. Doc will have to stop being stubborn and play Gabe (since Eddie can`t hit anything anymore) at the end of games...

What bothers me the most in recent games is that RR shows no fire on the floor. He plays like he is 50 years old and we all know he is only successful when he pushes the tempo and causes havoc. If he walks up the court he is useless. His on court demeanor is what I am most disappointed about in the last 2 weeks.

So, when he plays in slow mode, Gabe should get his minutes. He is just as good a defender as Rondo (his defense on brooks was very good, no idea why Doc played House on Brooks in the end) and he is a much better offensive fit in a half court game.

GuyClinch · Post #4 » by **GuyClinch** » Thu Jan 8, 2009 12:37 pm

It's not going to be great for the second unit - as you have a backcourt of TA and Rondo - one poor shooter and one that's flat out the worst shooting guard in the NBA.. Only way Rondo can come off the bench is if we got Starbury - and then we wouldn't NEED Rondo to come off the bench.

Jammer · Post #5 » by **Jammer** » Thu Jan 8, 2009 12:53 pm

GuyClinch wrote:It's not going to be great for the second unit - as you have a backcourt of TA and Rondo - one poor shooter and one that's flat out the worst shooting guard in the NBA.. Only way Rondo can come off the bench is if we got Starbury - and then we wouldn't NEED Rondo to come off the bench.

+1

elrod enchilada · Post #6 » by **elrod enchilada** » Thu Jan 8, 2009 1:18 pm

The only way this team has a prayer of doing anything in the playoffs is if Rondo returns to form, and gets better. If benching him gets us to that point, fine. I would prefer to simply let him play through it, and encourage him to shoot more.

At any rate, Rondo has to be brought up to speed or this team is cooked.

Post #7 » by **sully00** » Thu Jan 8, 2009 2:35 pm

I thought a championship make people stop being so reactionary.

Look Rondo probably isn't as good as he looked in the fall and he certainly isn't as bad as he looks right now. With the whole team it is a lack of performance not a lack of ability. They have had a tough schedule and for the most part kicked the crap out of it. Now the losses are coming a little quick but they also have the easiest second half schedule.

I think it makes sense to give Gabe the back up pg spot he should have had coming out of camp. He looks like he is confident with his jumper and handle and is defending well. Even if he isn't the answer he at least has some fresh legs.

When things were good I was into adding Marbury now I am cool to the idea. The last thing we need is adding this guy and bringing some controversy in the rotation, beyond that he isn't even out there yet. He has no leverage to get out of his deal if he isn't going to give up some money unless the Knicks desperately need his roster spot, which they don't. I also think there is Miami sitting there with a starting gig and possibly a future. I would be more interested in adding Shaun Livingston for Cassell and perhaps cutting Scal for Croshere. We get better and more versatile as you can cover all 5 spots on the floor with those two guys.

tombattor · Post #8 » by **tombattor** » Thu Jan 8, 2009 6:00 pm

sully00 wrote:I thought a championship make people stop being so reactionary.

Look Rondo probably isn't as good as he looked in the fall and he certainly isn't as bad as he looks right now. With the whole team it is a lack of performance not a lack of ability. They have had a tough schedule and for the most part kicked the crap out of it. Now the losses are coming a little quick but they also have the easiest second half schedule.

I think it makes sense to give Gabe the back up pg spot he should have had coming out of camp. He looks like he is confident with his jumper and handle and is defending well. Even if he isn't the answer he at least has some fresh legs.

When things were good I was into adding Marbury now I am cool to the idea. The last thing we need is adding this guy and bringing some controversy in the rotation, beyond that he isn't even out there yet. He has no leverage to get out of his deal if he isn't going to give up some money unless the Knicks desperately need his roster spot, which they don't. I also think there is Miami sitting there with a starting gig and possibly a future. I would be more interested in adding Shaun Livingston for Cassell and perhaps cutting Scal for Croshere. We get better and more versatile as you can cover all 5 spots on the floor with those two guys.

It's a long season. Did you guys really think we'd go the entire season without a little bump here and there? Well, I hate to break it to you guys, but we were never going to win 70 games and we'll most likely have another bump or two on the road before the season is done. Every team goes through something like this. No need to take drastic measures for the sake of making one.

return2glory · Post #9 » by **return2glory** » Thu Jan 8, 2009 6:26 pm

Qiute from tombattor :
It's a long season. Did you guys really think we'd go the entire season without a little bump here and there? Well, I hate to break it to you guys, but we were never going to win 70 games and we'll most likely have another bump or two on the road before the season is done. Every team goes through something like this. No need to take drastic measures for the sake of making one.[/quote]

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Bull ****. Championship caliber teams don't go through someting like this. Average and bad teams do. We have now lost 7 of 9 (including the Cavs game). That is a 22% winning rate. Just like Doc, some of you are afraid of making changes.

Rondo hasn't done **** in this league yet to get a pass. If he struggles and hurts this team and we keep losing, then you do something about it. 5 of our last 8 losses, we have been scoring in the 80's. Rondo needs a wake up call.

MyInsatiableOne · Post #10 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Thu Jan 8, 2009 6:48 pm

elrod enchilada wrote:The only way this team has a prayer of doing anything in the playoffs is if Rondo returns to form, and gets better. If benching him gets us to that point, fine. I would prefer to simply let him play through it, and encourage him to shoot more.

At any rate, Rondo has to be brought up to speed or this team is cooked.

I agree. And anyone who thinks Gabe should start ahead of Rondo is nuts...what has Gabe proven so far? NOTHING! Rondo has proven he can do it...the dude's in a **** slump, it won't last forever, and some people here want to bury him on the bench? Reminds me of Ray's slump last playoffs. At this rate you'll want to trade Rondo for Andre Miller by Easter!

tombattor · Post #11 » by **tombattor** » Thu Jan 8, 2009 6:52 pm

return2glory wrote:Bull ****. Championship caliber teams don't go through someting like this. Average and bad teams do. We have now lost 7 of 9 (including the Cavs game). That is a 22% winning rate. Just like Doc, some of you are afraid of making changes.

Rondo hasn't done **** in this league yet to get a pass. If he struggles and hurts this team and we keep losing, then you do something about it. 5 of our last 8 losses, we have been scoring in the 80's. Rondo needs a wake up call.

Calm down. So let's say we lose the Cavs game, as you are already chalking up. So what? Are we still not going to win 60+ and be one of the favorites to win it all? What more do you want at this point in season? Do you want Stern to stop the season crown us champs?

Yeah, it sux that we lost a bunch, but we also did win 19 or whatever in a row. So they even out. We weren't as good as the streak showed and we're not as bad as this stretch we're in. Do we have some holes? Of course, but so does every other team. Can we make some minor tweaks to fill those? Hell yeah.

At the end of the day, we're still one of the best teams in the league and we don't need some reactionary moves. Not sure if you are a baseball fan, but if it was up to someone like you, Pedroia would be in AA, instead of winning the MVP in the majors. Players go through ups and downs. That's just the way it is. You gotta have some patience. The same guys won a title last year and have us atop the standings. I think they deserve some leeway.

return2glory · Post #12 » by **return2glory** » Thu Jan 8, 2009 7:03 pm

tombattor wrote:
return2glory wrote:Bull ****. Championship caliber teams don't go through someting like this. Average and bad teams do. We have now lost 7 of 9 (including the Cavs game). That is a 22% winning rate. Just like Doc, some of you are afraid of making changes.

Rondo hasn't done **** in this league yet to get a pass. If he struggles and hurts this team and we keep losing, then you do something about it. 5 of our last 8 losses, we have been scoring in the 80's. Rondo needs a wake up call.

Can we make some minor tweaks to fill those? Hell yeah.

At the end of the day, we're still one of the best teams in the league and we don't need some reactionary moves. Not sure if you are a baseball fan, but if it was up to someone like you, Pedroia would be in AA, instead of winning the MVP in the majors. Players go through ups and downs. That's just the way it is. You gotta have some patience. The same guys won a title last year and have us atop the standings. I think they deserve some leeway.

Having Rondo go to the bench is a minor tweak. You still keep 80% of the starting lineup the same. And you play Rondo 25-30 minutes off the bench instead of 35 minutes as a starter. That's not a drastic move.

Ray, PP, and KG get a lot of leeway because they are proven players. Rondo should not be given the same leeway. This should be a temparary move and maybe it will make Rondo and the team better in the long run.

tombattor · Post #13 » by **tombattor** » Thu Jan 8, 2009 7:10 pm

return2glory wrote:Having Rondo go to the bench is a minor tweak. You still keep 80% of the starting lineup the same. And you play Rondo 25-30 minutes off the bench instead of 35 minutes as a starter. That's not a drastic move.

Ray, PP, and KG get a lot of leeway because they are proven players. Rondo should not be given the same leeway. This should be a temparary move and maybe it will make Rondo and the team better in the long run.

Why make such a "temporary" move? I can see how playing Pruitt more at the backup PG position can help us, but what's the point of starting Pruitt for a few games with the intention of putting Rondo back in the lineup? Is this some sort of punishment? IMO, if such move was to be made, Pruitt has to beat Rondo out. Not just for the sake of punishing Rondo for a poor stretch.

Post #14 » by **sully00** » Thu Jan 8, 2009 7:19 pm

Moving Rondo to the bench is not a minor move and it solves nothing. We aren't struggling simply because Rondo is bad we are struggling because Rondo isn't playing great, you understand the difference?

We need the guy who was in the All Star debate back so that this team can get back in high gear we simply aren't the same without him. Replacing him with a converted SG with no experience doesn't solve our problem it makes it worse. He has to play through or if he is hurt get better.

BillessuR6 · Post #15 » by **BillessuR6** » Thu Jan 8, 2009 7:34 pm

return2glory wrote:Bull ****. Championship caliber teams don't go through someting like this. Average and bad teams do. We have now lost 7 of 9 (including the Cavs game). That is a 22% winning rate. Just like Doc, some of you are afraid of making changes.

Well, that is not exactly the case as the following chart shows...

Code: Select all

Longest Win Streaks In League History (*won NBA title)

Year       Team       Wins  Following the Streak
1971-72    Lakers*    33    Lost 4 of 6
2007-08    Rockets    22    Lost 5 of 8
1970-71    Bucks*     20    Lost 5 of 6
2008-09    Celtics    19    Lost 6 of 8
1999-00    Lakers*    19    Won 11 of 12

Link: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime ... ime-090108

return2glory · Post #16 » by **return2glory** » Thu Jan 8, 2009 7:37 pm

sully00 wrote:Moving Rondo to the bench is not a minor move and it solves nothing. We aren't struggling simply because Rondo is bad we are struggling because Rondo isn't playing great, you understand the difference?

We need the guy who was in the All Star debate back so that this team can get back in high gear we simply aren't the same without him. Replacing him with a converted SG with no experience doesn't solve our problem it makes it worse. He has to play through or if he is hurt get better.

Like I said, it would be a short term move. I bet you anything that our offensive would improve with Gabe in their instead of Rondo. We have failed to reach 90 points in 5 of our last 8 losses. Gabe would open the spacing more with 4 shooters on the floor. This will also allow KG to operate more one on one in the low post because teams can't leave Pruitt like they leave Rondo.

Rondo not only doesn't make open shots but he also doesn't take 10-12 foot shots in the lane. Instead he forces passes to guys that are guarded and they have to take tough shots with the clock winding down.

return2glory · Post #17 » by **return2glory** » Thu Jan 8, 2009 7:46 pm

thebirdman wrote:
return2glory wrote:Bull ****. Championship caliber teams don't go through someting like this. Average and bad teams do. We have now lost 7 of 9 (including the Cavs game). That is a 22% winning rate. Just like Doc, some of you are afraid of making changes.

Well, that is not exactly the case as the following chart shows...

Code: Select all
Longest Win Streaks In League History (*won NBA title) Year Team Wins Following the Streak 1971-72 Lakers* 33 Lost 4 of 6 2007-08 Rockets 22 Lost 5 of 8 1970-71 Bucks* 20 Lost 5 of 6 2008-09 Celtics 19 Lost 6 of 8 1999-00 Lakers* 19 Won 11 of 12

Link: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime ... ime-090108

I'm talking about championship caliber teams not teams with the longest winning streaks. The 2007-2008 Rockets were no championship type teams. So that leaves the 70-71 Bucks, the 71-72 Bucks, and the 99-00 Lakers.

Three teams in the last 39 years, I stand corrected the Birdman. Do you know for a fact that non out their players got hurt during these losing stretches? The Bucks teams could have been with Lew Alcindor or the Big O for some of those games. Not sure, it was before my time. The Lakers could have been playing without Kobe or Shaq in those strectehs.

And if you notice, none of these losing streaks went past 8 games. Ours is 8 and counting.

Bad-Thoma · Post #18 » by **Bad-Thoma** » Thu Jan 8, 2009 8:28 pm

tombattor wrote:
return2glory wrote:Bull ****. Championship caliber teams don't go through someting like this. Average and bad teams do. We have now lost 7 of 9 (including the Cavs game). That is a 22% winning rate. Just like Doc, some of you are afraid of making changes.

Rondo hasn't done **** in this league yet to get a pass. If he struggles and hurts this team and we keep losing, then you do something about it. 5 of our last 8 losses, we have been scoring in the 80's. Rondo needs a wake up call.

Calm down. So let's say we lose the Cavs game, as you are already chalking up. So what? Are we still not going to win 60+ and be one of the favorites to win it all? What more do you want at this point in season? Do you want Stern to stop the season crown us champs?

Yeah, it sux that we lost a bunch, but we also did win 19 or whatever in a row. So they even out. We weren't as good as the streak showed and we're not as bad as this stretch we're in. Do we have some holes? Of course, but so does every other team. Can we make some minor tweaks to fill those? Hell yeah.

At the end of the day, we're still one of the best teams in the league and we don't need some reactionary moves. Not sure if you are a baseball fan, but if it was up to someone like you, Pedroia would be in AA, instead of winning the MVP in the majors. Players go through ups and downs. That's just the way it is. You gotta have some patience. The same guys won a title last year and have us atop the standings. I think they deserve some leeway.

applause

Post #19 » by **sully00** » Fri Jan 9, 2009 12:13 am

We have lost 3 in a row and 6 of 8 we have only lost 8 games all year what exactly has reached 8 and counting?

Your logic in moving Rondo to the first unit is really off. Why exactly would anyone guard Pruitt at all? They wouldn't they would force him to take perimeter shots till he proved he could make them. He may well do that but this is what will come first.

Rondo frequently ends being the guy forced to take shots with the clock winding down. More importantly the biggest issue this team has is that they get no consistent bench scoring while Rondo may be able to get those guys more shots, his own inability to make shots would be magnified when on the floor with 4 other stiffs.

I like Gabe Pruitt because he can handle the ball, shoot off the dribble, and play a defense. He has not demonstrated the ability to find teammates in the half court, run the pick and roll, create open shots, or control the tempo of the game. Just because his skills as a pg are light years ahead of what Eddie and Tony can do it doesn't mean he is all of a sudden superior to Rondo and ready to start in the NBA.

15 mpg would be nice, baby steps.

underneathtoDJ · Post #20 » by **underneathtoDJ** » Fri Jan 9, 2009 3:40 pm

Two weeks ago Rondo was an All Star, now he shouldn't be starting??? Come on now. Rondo is what makes this team go. When he's aggressive and attacking the basket and flying around the court, the C's play well. When he is passive and settles for jumpers or standing off in the corner, we struggle. We NEED Rondo to start and NEED him to play his game. If he doesn't, it trickles down and effects the rest of the team. Hopefully Rondo gets back to playing his game (and cuts down on the turnovers) these kind of posts will stop.

FWIW, I would love to see Pruitt get more minutes as the backup PG, 10-15 mins a night would be nice, but we need his shooting ability on the 2nd unit.