JHTruth, I'm calling you out.

polishph22 · Post #1 » by **polishph22** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:55 pm

Just wondering about a few of your comments from Friday's game.

"Give me a break. Like any other players on the Cavs are any good. Of course LeBron has to play the entire game. Without him they are trash.."

Lebron didn't play the entire game, he played a whopping 35 minutes, which was less than Rondo, Pierce and Allen. If the other Cavs are trash then you should of easily beat us.

"Can we just admit the Cavs are trash without LeBron? Do he have to keep pretending the Cavs are sOOOO improved with Mo Williams?"

this time 07-08: 18-17
08-09: 29-6

Just imagine where Boston would be with a legit point guard.

Bad-Thoma · Post #2 » by **Bad-Thoma** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:43 am

Dude, Mo is a shooting guard, not a point, I don't care what they list in the line-ups. Rondo IS a legit point guard, he is an excellent creator for his team. Mo is a scorer first, second and third, and while he was a good pick-up for the Cavs, to call him a legit point guard and say Boston doesn't have one reeks of retardation. Also, while the Cavs are a scary team with Lebron, they are just a bunch of roleplayers without him, so yes, they would basically be trash without him. Don't get me wrong, Mo, Delonte, Z, Big Ben are all good roleplayers, but without Lebron they aren't winning ****. The funniest thing about your stupid post is that we suffer the most without our legitamite PG, the team goes as Rondo goes. Luckily for your team, lebron is built like a brick **** house and is durable as all hell, or else no one in Cleveland would be able to sleep at night

polishph22 · Post #3 » by **polishph22** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:39 am

Fine, replace 'legit' with 'better'.

I never referred to Mo as a legit, or classic pass-first pg. I'm not even saying Mo is better than Rondo. I personally think they're a wash.

"while the Cavs are a scary team with Lebron, they are just a bunch of roleplayers without him, so yes, they would basically be trash without him"

Then what do you call the Celtics without the big 3???? And again, if the Cavs are **** without Lebron then why couldn't you shut him down like you guys did in the first 2 playoff games last season? Its because we're a much better team than last year.

Datruth345 · Post #4 » by **Datruth345** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:02 am

i take rondo over mo williams

Notorious23 · Post #5 » by **Notorious23** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:32 am

Bad-Thoma wrote:Dude, Mo is a shooting guard, not a point, I don't care what they list in the line-ups. Rondo IS a legit point guard, he is an excellent creator for his team. Mo is a scorer first, second and third, and while he was a good pick-up for the Cavs, to call him a legit point guard and say Boston doesn't have one reeks of retardation. Also, while the Cavs are a scary team with Lebron, they are just a bunch of roleplayers without him, so yes, they would basically be trash without him. Don't get me wrong, Mo, Delonte, Z, Big Ben are all good roleplayers, but without Lebron they aren't winning ****. The funniest thing about your stupid post is that we suffer the most without our legitamite PG, the team goes as Rondo goes. Luckily for your team, lebron is built like a brick **** house and is durable as all hell, or else no one in Cleveland would be able to sleep at night

Davis, Powe, Rondo, Perkins, House are all below average role players and without KG they aren't winning **** to say otherwise reeks of retardation.

Bad-Thoma · Post #6 » by **Bad-Thoma** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:41 am

Notorious23 wrote:
Bad-Thoma wrote:Dude, Mo is a shooting guard, not a point, I don't care what they list in the line-ups. Rondo IS a legit point guard, he is an excellent creator for his team. Mo is a scorer first, second and third, and while he was a good pick-up for the Cavs, to call him a legit point guard and say Boston doesn't have one reeks of retardation. Also, while the Cavs are a scary team with Lebron, they are just a bunch of roleplayers without him, so yes, they would basically be trash without him. Don't get me wrong, Mo, Delonte, Z, Big Ben are all good roleplayers, but without Lebron they aren't winning ****. The funniest thing about your stupid post is that we suffer the most without our legitamite PG, the team goes as Rondo goes. Luckily for your team, lebron is built like a brick **** house and is durable as all hell, or else no one in Cleveland would be able to sleep at night

Davis, Powe, Rondo, Perkins, House are all below average role players and without KG they aren't winning **** to say otherwise reeks of retardation.

Actually, Rondo is a better than average starter, Perk is a solid defensive center, House sucks, Davis sucks, and Powe hasn't impressed so far. What are you even talking about? I even complimented the Cavs roleplayers. I've nothing against the Cavs but without Lebron they'd suck. The C's at least have 3 all-star quality players, but I'm not even going to go there because they've been struggling of late. The thing that was stupid about the OP was claiming we don't have a legit PG. And as for not being able to win without KG... well no **** Sherlock.

Bad-Thoma · Post #7 » by **Bad-Thoma** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:48 am

polishph22 wrote:Fine, replace 'legit' with 'better'.

I never referred to Mo as a legit, or classic pass-first pg. I'm not even saying Mo is better than Rondo. I personally think they're a wash.

"while the Cavs are a scary team with Lebron, they are just a bunch of roleplayers without him, so yes, they would basically be trash without him"

Then what do you call the Celtics without the big 3???? And again, if the Cavs are **** without Lebron then why couldn't you shut him down like you guys did in the first 2 playoff games last season? Its because we're a much better team than last year.

I'm not sure I get what your even upset about. Obviously Lebron is essential to your team, and obviously your team is better than last year. Without the big 3 we aren't any good either, though I think any team that loses 3/5 of their starting line-up is sucking wind anyways. So now that we've vehemently stated the obvious, let's move on with our lives. As for Rondo and Mo Williams, Mo is a better fit for your team because he is a scorer and Lebron does a good portion of the ball handling, Rondo is a better fit for us because he is a distributing pg and we have the big 3 to do the scoring. If I've got to build a team I'll take Rondo 8 days a week, a true pg makes things easier on anyone, however if I run the Cavs I'd shy away from having anyone that can't hit an open shot around Lebron, because that makes it easier on Lebron. It's an apples and oranges kind of comparison.

tombattor · Post #8 » by **tombattor** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:43 pm

The Cavs are trash without Lebron, but any team without the best player in the league will be much much worse. What do you think Rondo will be without Paul or Ray or KG? Trash. Do you think Rondo's leading us to 20 wins this year without the Big 3? More like 5, if you're an optimistic homer.

Mo Williams plays the perfect role for the Cavs. No, he's no Chris Paul, but he makes open shots (something no other PG before Mo could do - i.e. Eric Snow) which opens up the court and can bring up the ball and run the offense when Lebron isn't. And when you have Lebron, that's exactly what you need. Just look at the standings and that's all you need to know about where the Cavs are and how Mo Williams is working out in Cleveland.

vinnycorleone · Post #9 » by **vinnycorleone** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:06 pm

Lakers fan here.

This is a dumb notion. Any team without there star or stars is TRASH. Take KOBE BRYANT out of the Lakers....we are a 8 probably 9 seed in the west?

If you want to make that argument....where was Paul Pierce without KG and Ray?

24-58!!

Lebron off Cavs = Trash
Kobe off Lakers = Trash
CP3 off Hornets = MORE TRASH
KG n Ray off Celtics = Trash
D-Wade off Heat = Dead last in league

P.S. Mo Williams is MUCH better than Rondo. I'm not being a Celtic hater I'm just stating my opinion.

NEM · Post #10 » by **NEM** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:11 pm

magic without dwight:
2-0

MVE85 · Post #11 » by **MVE85** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:26 pm

Is Mo Williams a better PG then Rondo because he can hit an open 3 or create his own shot? In my opinion no, a TRUE PG has superior court vision and runs the offense....i.e. creates shots for everyone around him which Rondo does. Does he need work on his shooting? yes....but you put Mo Williams on the celtics with his shoot first mentality and they wouldn't be nearly as competitive as they are now. Lets not forget Rondos defense, he brings much more to the table in the team defense scheme and is also a much better on ball defender and rebounder then Williams.

Mo Williams
15ppg, 4ast, .8 stl, 3reb
Rondo
11ppg, 8ast, 2stl, 5reb

tombattor · Post #12 » by **tombattor** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:38 pm

MVE85 wrote:Is Mo Williams a better PG then Rondo because he can hit an open 3 or create his own shot? In my opinion no, a TRUE PG has superior court vision and runs the offense....i.e. creates shots for everyone around him which Rondo does. Does he need work on his shooting? yes....but you put Mo Williams on the celtics with his shoot first mentality and they wouldn't be nearly as competitive as they are now. Lets not forget Rondos defense, he brings much more to the table in the team defense scheme and is also a much better on ball defender and rebounder then Williams.

Mo Williams
15ppg, 4ast, .8 stl, 3reb
Rondo
11ppg, 8ast, 2stl, 5reb

Defense and ball handling are very important, but so is shooting. You have a PG who can't shoot, you play 4-on-5 on offense. Which is what the Celtics play every half-court posession when Rondo is in there. Rondo makes up for it with his D and ball handling, but he also kills our half-court offense with his lack of shooting, which effects everyone else on the court.

At this point, I'd have to say Mo Williams is the better player because Rondo is a complete liability on offense. Mo may not be the defender Rondo is, but he's not the same liability on defense as Rondo is on offense.

Gold Chain · Post #13 » by **Gold Chain** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:51 pm

Datruth345 wrote:i take rondo over mo williams

Are you kidding me?

Rondo is nobody on a team without 3 future hall of fame players.

Wow.

Bad-Thoma · Post #14 » by **Bad-Thoma** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:16 pm

double c wrote:
Datruth345 wrote:i take rondo over mo williams

Are you kidding me?

Rondo is nobody on a team without 3 future hall of fame players.

Wow.

I've got to disagree, Rondo would probably score more on a team without the big 3, and considering 90% of the fan base out there only seems to recognize scoring as talent he'd probably impress people more. He's no Chris Paul, not even close, he's not going to carry a team, but you put talent around Rondo and he's a pretty damned good point guard. He creates a lot of open looks for this team. He's inconsistent, but he's young and pg is supposedly the most difficult position to learn in the NBA.

cfan79 · Post #15 » by **cfan79** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:26 pm

Rondo is much better then Maurice Williams. He sets up his teammates and is a much better defender. I could give a crap how many points he gets. His teammates are a more able to score because of him.

Tricky Ricky · Post #16 » by **Tricky Ricky** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:33 pm

I take Rondo over Mo will 7 days of the week

The cavs without Bron are lottery bound, LeBron is the best player today plus he gets every call and can travel. Without Bron Cavs would be competing with the Thunder

cfan79 · Post #17 » by **cfan79** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:33 pm

vinnycorleone wrote:Lakers fan here.

This is a dumb notion. Any team without there star or stars is TRASH. Take KOBE BRYANT out of the Lakers....we are a 8 probably 9 seed in the west?

If you want to make that argument....where was Paul Pierce without KG and Ray?

24-58!!

Lebron off Cavs = Trash
Kobe off Lakers = Trash
CP3 off Hornets = MORE TRASH
KG n Ray off Celtics = Trash
D-Wade off Heat = Dead last in league

Talk about a dumb scenario. I don't get why Boston has to take 2 players off in this list. Wouldn't it be Paul whose taken off the C's?

tombattor · Post #18 » by **tombattor** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:58 pm

cfan79 wrote:Rondo is much better then Maurice Williams. He sets up his teammates and is a much better defender. I could give a crap how many points he gets. His teammates are a more able to score because of him.

Just remember what the Cavs looked like when they had a PG who was a good defender and a ball handler, but can't hit jumpers to save his life. They were never a serious contender. Exit Eric Snow and enter Mo Williams. Now they are the team to beat.

JHTruth · Post #19 » by **JHTruth** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:35 pm

No team is as wholly dependent on one player as the Cavs. Not even close. In the second half of the game, the announcers were droning on and on about the "improved Cavs", and how great the players around LeBron are. They take him out of the game, the C's cut it to two in about a minute, and then they put LeBron right back in. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so annoying..

The Cavs wouldn't just be out of the playoffs sans LeBron, they would be competing with the Thunder and Clippers. The rest of their team is just awful. Big Ben died about 2 years ago, Wally "Knees" Sczerbiak can handle about 5 min a night, Delonte West couldn't start on an abysmal Sonics team, etc. Mo Williams is a little scorer, but he's no all-star

My comments were a reaction to silly hype is all. LeBron is a one man team, and you could put any other collection of has-beens and scrubs on his team, and they would be the team to beat right now. He;s playing that well. But let's just stop pretending this current Cavs squad is any better than any other assortment of garbage LeBron has played with...

cfan79 · Post #20 » by **cfan79** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:42 pm

tombattor wrote:Just remember what the Cavs looked like when they had a PG who was a good defender and a ball handler, but can't hit jumpers to save his life. They were never a serious contender. Exit Eric Snow and enter Mo Williams. Now they are the team to beat.

Don't compare young Rajon with old man Snow.

Eric Snow was passed his prime when he got traded to the Cavs. His numbers with them for the last 4 years of his career were awful.