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Rivers: Allen fouled prior to the last shot

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Rivers: Allen fouled prior to the last shot 

Post#1 » by Larry Joe Bird » Fri Feb 6, 2009 5:46 pm

Rivalry Brings Chippy Play to Intense Game with Lakers

In the linked article, Rivers says that Allen was hand checked all the way after he caught the ball during the final play of the game. Elsewhere, Rivers said that he felt Allen was NOT fouled when he fell down on the last shot of the game, but that he was hand checked once he caught the ball and tried to move into position to take a shot.

I wish the Lakers fans would stop calling us "whiners" because we do have a right to complain about the ref's. They should keep in mind the fact that they also complained about the ref's after game 2 of the NBA finals last year so maybe they are also "whiners"?

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NBA Executive Vice President of Basketball Operations Stu Jackson explains the hand check rule,

Click here to read Stu's explanation (scroll down till you reach the heading, "Can you explain what went into the hand-check rule and break that down how it’s been successful thus far?")

It does not matter how anyone feels about the hand check rule. What matters is that it is currently an established NBA rule, but it was hardly called throughout last night's game against the Lakers, especially during the final play.

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This setback sickens flu-ridden Garnett

The last "foul" committed by Garnett is even more questionable,

Garnett, however, picked up three fouls in the third to give him four with 2:14 remaining in the quarter and Boston up, 74-71. With the Celtics ahead, 83-81, with 9:49 left in the fourth, Rivers put Garnett back in the game. But with 4:22 remaining, Pau Gasol appeared to slap Garnett's wrist, causing him to lose the ball. While trying to regain possession against Derek Fisher, Garnett was hit with his sixth personal and exited with Boston up, 95-93.


What the article failed to point out is the fact that Garnett was also taunted by Odom in front of the ref's after he fouled out. Odom slapped him on his back and made a comment which caused Garnett to quicly spin around and snap back at him, but a taunting foul was never called on Odom (see NBA rule on taunting).

Still, you never want to place yourself in a situation where the game is placed in the hands of the ref's, especially during the final minutes when the game is on the line. You must fight hard and play smart fundamental basketball so that the flow of the game stays in your favor.

The C's need to address their problem with turnovers which took them out of their normal rythym last night. As of January, they demonstrated this season that despite their reputation of being a good defensive team, they have struggled against the top offensive teams in the NBA partly due to turnovers. They led the NBA in turnovers in early January, averaging 15.9 turnovers per game. Click here to see the current list of "Team Game Infractions Stats" for the 2008-2009 season. The C's are currently listed 4th in turnovers, the Lakers 20th, Cavs 26, Magic 18, Spurs 29 and the Nuggets are listed just after the C's at #5. This is something that will prove costly in the playoffs.

Also, Rondo played sloppy at the end of the game, often trying to take awkward shots going to the basket rather than moving the ball around (the lack of ball movement hurt them. Instead, they relied too much on high percentage shots). Pierce also played poorly because he, once again, failed to go to the basket often (a mistake he made in the first game against the Lakers on Christmas Day). The C's hardly played the fundamental defense that helped them to earn two double-digit winning streaks this season. Overall, it was a bad night for the C's, from bad ref's to sloppy play. They need to re-focus themselves when it comes to big games and not play a different type of basketball from the one that made them champs last year.
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Re: Rivers: Allen fouled prior to the last shot 

Post#2 » by stretch » Fri Feb 6, 2009 6:15 pm

You've clearly put a lot of time into this post.. but there are still many inconsistencies and inaccuracies.

For example, the example you refer to of Odom taunting.. in fact Odom and KG had just had a rough play, and Odom got the benefit of the call (it was KG's 5th or 4th foul, NOT his last one). So Odom, just feeling like he got the upper hand, patted KG hard on the behind.
Ticket took exception and stood right back to him.. and they started jawing. That wasn't when KG fouled out.
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Re: Rivers: Allen fouled prior to the last shot 

Post#3 » by Prophet_C » Fri Feb 6, 2009 6:20 pm

He did get fouled. It wasn't during the shot but just before when Fisher was "fighting thru screens."
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Re: Rivers: Allen fouled prior to the last shot 

Post#4 » by nermindee » Fri Feb 6, 2009 6:28 pm

Kind of makes you look like a troll huh?
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Re: Rivers: Allen fouled prior to the last shot 

Post#5 » by Larry Joe Bird » Fri Feb 6, 2009 6:32 pm

nermindee wrote:Kind of makes you look like a troll huh?


???
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Re: Rivers: Allen fouled prior to the last shot 

Post#6 » by return2glory » Fri Feb 6, 2009 6:34 pm

Move on. That was stupid playing calling by Doc. Ray is 25 feet away from the basket trying to shoot a 3's as if we were down by two or three. I was a one point game, we should have been going to the basket.

When our team isn't good enough to beat the Cavs or Lakers, we make excuses. Last year's team would have won this game because we were better, this year's team isn't. That's why we lost, not because of some weak no call.

KG fouled out, so what. The Lakers played without Bynum. Had Bynum played, we would have lost by 10 or more. Let's start worrying about added more talent to keep Perkins from playing 35 minutes a game, because he has once again become a stiff on the offensive end over the last 6 weeks.
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Re: Rivers: Allen fouled prior to the last shot 

Post#7 » by return2glory » Fri Feb 6, 2009 6:39 pm

Watch what Cleveland does to the Lakers on Sunday. Their fans won't be complaining about foul calls because they won't have to.
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Re: Rivers: Allen fouled prior to the last shot 

Post#8 » by Frank Lucas » Fri Feb 6, 2009 6:42 pm

We lose the game not due to the lack of a foul call on Ray Allen last sho attempt. We lost because Doc Rivers didn't call a play for Ray Allen during the last minute of the 4th quarter. We keep running iso plays for Paul Pierce who was being covered by Kobe and it was a clear miss-match with Ray Allen being guarded by Luke Walton. To me we lose due to back coaching. Ray Allen should have been our bread and butter player last nigth and not Paul Pierce. If that was Ray Allen at the free throw line during the last few seconds of OT or in the 4th quarter we would be talking about a Celtics win. Also why wasn't Eddie House in the game during the last part of the 4th quarter and in OT?
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Re: Rivers: Allen fouled prior to the last shot 

Post#9 » by Larry Joe Bird » Fri Feb 6, 2009 6:44 pm

return2glory wrote:Move on. That was stupid playing calling by Doc. Ray is 25 feet away from the basket trying to shoot a 3's as if we were down by two or three. I was a one point game, we should have been going to the basket.

When our team isn't good enough to beat the Cavs or Lakers, we make excuses. Last year's team would have won this game because we were better, this year's team isn't. That's why we lost, not because of some weak no call.

KG fouled out, so what. The Lakers played without Bynum. Had Bynum played, we would have lost by 10 or more. Let's start worrying about added more talent to keep Perkins from playing 35 minutes a game, because he has once again become a stiff on the offensive end over the last 6 weeks.


I also complained about their preference to take high percentage shots last night. And I cited the fact that they rank among teams leading the NBA in turnovers this season. This remains a problem that needs to be addressed. Maybe providing some help on the bench will rectify this problem. Cedric Maxwell seems to believe that they need a good defensive power forward.

Most every NBA commentator agrees that the ref's did a poor job calling the game for both teams during last night's game. And there is nothing wrong with the Celtics and their fans complaining about ref's. The Lakers and their fans seem to forget the constant whining that they made, led by Coach Jackson, after game 2 of last year's NBA finals.
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Re: Rivers: Allen fouled prior to the last shot 

Post#10 » by Larry Joe Bird » Fri Feb 6, 2009 6:48 pm

Frank Lucas wrote:We lose the game not due to the lack of a foul call on Ray Allen last sho attempt. We lost because Doc Rivers didn't call a play for Ray Allen during the last minute of the 4th quarter. We keep running iso plays for Paul Pierce who was being covered by Kobe and it was a clear miss-match with Ray Allen being guarded by Luke Walton. To me we lose due to back coaching. Ray Allen should have been our bread and butter player last nigth and not Paul Pierce. If that was Ray Allen at the free throw line during the last few seconds of OT or in the 4th quarter we would be talking about a Celtics win. Also why wasn't Eddie House in the game during the last part of the 4th quarter and in OT?


It doesn't matter. Pierce should be able to make key free throws at the end of any game. You can't always expect Allen to go to the free throw line in place of Piece during the closing minutes or seconds of a game. Pierce needs to get the job done at the free throw line.
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Re: Rivers: Allen fouled prior to the last shot 

Post#11 » by TonyMontana » Fri Feb 6, 2009 6:57 pm

return2glory wrote:Watch what Cleveland does to the Lakers on Sunday. Their fans won't be complaining about foul calls because they won't have to.

WOW I never though I would see a post like this.
A Celtic fan rooting for the Cavs.
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Re: Rivers: Allen fouled prior to the last shot 

Post#12 » by Frank Lucas » Fri Feb 6, 2009 6:58 pm

Larry Joe Bird wrote:
Frank Lucas wrote:We lose the game not due to the lack of a foul call on Ray Allen last sho attempt. We lost because Doc Rivers didn't call a play for Ray Allen during the last minute of the 4th quarter. We keep running iso plays for Paul Pierce who was being covered by Kobe and it was a clear miss-match with Ray Allen being guarded by Luke Walton. To me we lose due to back coaching. Ray Allen should have been our bread and butter player last nigth and not Paul Pierce. If that was Ray Allen at the free throw line during the last few seconds of OT or in the 4th quarter we would be talking about a Celtics win. Also why wasn't Eddie House in the game during the last part of the 4th quarter and in OT?


It doesn't matter. Pierce should be able to make key free throws at the end of any game. You can't always expect Allen to go to the free throw line in place of Piece during the closing minutes or seconds of a game. Pierce needs to get the job done at the free throw line.


I think you miss my point. I don't expect Ray Allen to go to the free throw line in place of Pierce during the closing minutes of a ball game. My point is Ray Allen has it going all night and he was being covered by a much weaker defend in Walton and Fish. Why not run some plays to get Ray Allen the ball during this last minutes of the game instead of going to Paul Pierce who by the way was being check by Kobe. I think Ray Allen has a much better chance of getting a call on Walton then Paul has with Kobe. Even though Paul did force a foul on Kobe. But that beside the point, Ray Allen should have been the go-to-guy last night and if I was Ray Allen i would be a little upset at Doc today for not calling my number.
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Re: Rivers: Allen fouled prior to the last shot 

Post#13 » by Larry Joe Bird » Fri Feb 6, 2009 7:11 pm

Frank Lucas wrote:
Larry Joe Bird wrote:
Frank Lucas wrote:We lose the game not due to the lack of a foul call on Ray Allen last sho attempt. We lost because Doc Rivers didn't call a play for Ray Allen during the last minute of the 4th quarter. We keep running iso plays for Paul Pierce who was being covered by Kobe and it was a clear miss-match with Ray Allen being guarded by Luke Walton. To me we lose due to back coaching. Ray Allen should have been our bread and butter player last nigth and not Paul Pierce. If that was Ray Allen at the free throw line during the last few seconds of OT or in the 4th quarter we would be talking about a Celtics win. Also why wasn't Eddie House in the game during the last part of the 4th quarter and in OT?


It doesn't matter. Pierce should be able to make key free throws at the end of any game. You can't always expect Allen to go to the free throw line in place of Piece during the closing minutes or seconds of a game. Pierce needs to get the job done at the free throw line.


I think you miss my point. I don't expect Ray Allen to go to the free throw line in place of Pierce during the closing minutes of a ball game. My point is Ray Allen has it going all night and he was being covered by a much weaker defend in Walton and Fish. Why not run some plays to get Ray Allen the ball during this last minutes of the game instead of going to Paul Pierce who by the way was being check by Kobe. I think Ray Allen has a much better chance of getting a call on Walton then Paul has with Kobe. Even though Paul did force a foul on Kobe. But that beside the point, Ray Allen should have been the go-to-guy last night and if I was Ray Allen i would be a little upset at Doc today for not calling my number.


I see your point, Frank Lucas. Thanks for clarifying your remarks. I am not sure why Ray Allen was not the go-to-guy last night. Where was he during the fourth quarter? Did he take any shots from the field during the fourth?
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Re: Rivers: Allen fouled prior to the last shot 

Post#14 » by ARB729 » Fri Feb 6, 2009 7:53 pm

TonyMontana wrote:
return2glory wrote:Watch what Cleveland does to the Lakers on Sunday. Their fans won't be complaining about foul calls because they won't have to.

WOW I never though I would see a post like this.
A Celtic fan rooting for the Cavs.


Don't mistake return2glory as a celtics fan, he hates this team more than anyone.
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Re: Rivers: Allen fouled prior to the last shot 

Post#15 » by sully00 » Fri Feb 6, 2009 10:04 pm

I thought the refs were bad but they were bad both ways. We didn't lose because of the refs, and we have no business complaining about physical play that is our game. My issue is simply KG getting rung up for 3 fouls in 5 mins and specifically the last foul and at the same time the same ref did not call an obvious foul on Odom under the basket on an out of bounds play. It was incidental but obvious foul and the clown just calls it out of bounds.

I don't want to take anything away from the Lakers they won the game, I just think that fouling KG out on that call was beyond bush league.
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Re: Rivers: Allen fouled prior to the last shot 

Post#16 » by return2glory » Fri Feb 6, 2009 10:09 pm

TonyMontana wrote:
return2glory wrote:Watch what Cleveland does to the Lakers on Sunday. Their fans won't be complaining about foul calls because they won't have to.

WOW I never though I would see a post like this.
A Celtic fan rooting for the Cavs.


Yeah, I'll root for the Cavs all day when they play the Lakers. The Lakers have a very good team, but they are my least favorite team in the NBA.
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Re: Rivers: Allen fouled prior to the last shot 

Post#17 » by PPAW4Life » Fri Feb 6, 2009 10:12 pm

Allen was fouled by Fisher but they swallowed their whistle because they didn't want to be held responsible of dictating the win (which happened anyways).

KG fouled out and that was the ball game. It changed the entire end of the 4th quarter and never should have gone to OT. The C's lost one of their go-to-guys and defensive anchor.

Sure the Lakers played without Bynum who has been playing well of late but he's just a 2nd year player who is as inconsistent as any young player out there. It's totally not the same as losing a perennial All-Star, Defensive Player of the Year, MVP, future Hall of Famer, etc.

But we did lose the game and the contributing factors were the turnovers, refs, missed shots, and Gasol deciding to grow a pair.
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Re: Rivers: Allen fouled prior to the last shot 

Post#18 » by Kefa461 » Sat Feb 7, 2009 2:25 pm

TonyMontana wrote:
return2glory wrote:Watch what Cleveland does to the Lakers on Sunday. Their fans won't be complaining about foul calls because they won't have to.

WOW I never though I would see a post like this.
A Celtic fan rooting for the Cavs.


We have all kinds.....we can't choose family...... 8-)
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Re: Rivers: Allen fouled prior to the last shot 

Post#19 » by Kefa461 » Sat Feb 7, 2009 2:29 pm

return2glory wrote:Watch what Cleveland does to the Lakers on Sunday. Their fans won't be complaining about foul calls because they won't have to.



Everyone complains when their getting raped.....don't you 8-)

ps.....in terms of basketball........slang of course. 8-)
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