Rondo and turnovers

[GreenDreamer]

Rondo is averaging 8.5 assist a game this season against 2.7 turnovers per game, for a 3.12 assist to turnover ratio. Evidently, some people think that he turns the ball over WAYYY too much. I happen to disagree.

The kid is 5th in the league in assists per game. Where is he in turnovers? 22nd.

Two of the 4 guys ahead of him on the APG list actually have a significantly worse assist to turnover ratio. Nash is FAR worse, with a 2.58, and Williams is about 0.3 worse. CP3 has one of 3.52, which is significantly better and, of course, leads the league in assists. He also happens to the best in the biz at that position. Calderon, who is virtually tied in assists with Rajon, has a ratio a full assist better than rondo. The problem with him, though, as just about any Raptor fan will tell you, is that he really doesn't create much offense with those assists. He is making A LOT of safe passes for mid range jumpers and the like. That doesn't make for a good offense, and the Raps offense is terrible.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistic ... pg&pos=all

I think that it should be prett obvious from that list that Rondo is actually outperforming the vast majority of other point guards not only in production of assists, but also in his efficiency in getting them. I'm actually not a supporter of the idea that "assists are everything" in running an offense, as Billups is certainly a better floor general than many of the guys ahead of him on this list, but they are a MAJOR contributing factor. In addition, Rondo is an excellent floor general in his own right. He certainly isn't a turning the ball over excessively with respect to his peers. in fact he looks VERY good in comparison.

Some historical examples might be good to look at as well, considering that I am focusing on TURNOVERS (a note to potential strawmen builders). Magic Johnson is the concensus "best point guard ever". He averaged 11.2 assists for his career, which is just awesome. Great stuff. He also averaged 3.9 turnovers per game for his career. In the '84 season Magic averaged 4.6 a game.

What!!! Get that turnovermachine off of the court. Seriously, what self respecting coach would allow a guy who is coughing up 4.6 turnovers a game to step on the court. Well, one who wanted to win titles. The ends justify the means as they say. So what if Magic turned the ball over? His job was to spark the Laker offense. Don't even start thinking "well they were all 'good' turnovers". Magic made some of the most godawful passes I have ever seen in my life. Why/ He had a hair trigger, and sometimes you misfire. It comes with the territory. What matters is if you are making a lot of great plays for every bad one you make, and Magic certainly did that.

I'm of the opinion that it is part of a point guard's job to turn the ball over. That he's the guy who initiating the offense, and the guy who is taking it on himself to make the most difficult (yet rewarding) passes and that turning the ball over is a risk he has to take. If he's havibg an off night then he'll do it more, if he's really sharp he'll do it less. I keep in mind that by him taking that load that he actually REDUCES the team's turnovers and IMPROVES the looks that his teammates get. Rondo is a perfect example of this.

What has happened with our second unit over the last few games. Suddenly, after alternating between mediocre and awful for quite a long time, they are looking great. Why? Well Doc has FINALLY allowed Rondo to play with them. it made all of the difference for those guys. With Rondo actually CONTROLLING the offense and getting them their looks, everyone could just focus on doing thier thing. They didn't need to create offense, Rondo created it for them, or at least set them up to succeed, and they just finished the job. Rondo, by the way, has been doing this for our starters all season. If he turns it over, so what/ Do you actually think that anyone else could do better/ If you do, then you are kidding yourself.

The kid is growing a lot, and yeah, he makes some stupid mistakes at times. Well, try watching what the guys from pther team do. Nash isn't averaging 3.8 turnovers per game because he doesn't screw up. Yet Rondo turns the ball over 4 times in a game, and people act as if he's some butterfingered idiot. He is not. He's one of the best at what he does. Get used to the idea.

[Gant]

Yes. The best points always have fairly high turnovers because they push the envelope. Owning the pace is more important.

[wigglestrue]

"The kid is 5th in the league in assists per game."

4th according to Yahoo.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/stats/bycat ... ng&sort=27

[Bad-Thoma]

I cut and pasted this from another topic, it was easier than typing it all again. This was pre-Dallas numbers.

As for the turnovers, every good assists guy ends up with plenty of turnovers.. Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, and currently Chris Duhon in NY are good examples. Usually the "magic" number for a pg is 3-1 assists to turnovers, Rondo is currently 451-143 on the season, or 3.15-1. Last night he had 11-4, almost the 3-1 mark. For comparison, on the season Nash is 449-174 (2.58-1), Duhon 408-144 (2.83-1), Kidd 428-122 (3.5-1), CP3 is 496-141 (3.52-1), Baron Davis 317-101 (3.13-1), and Calderon is 346-82 (4.2-1). That's pretty good company, especially for a guy as young as Rondo, and he's improved each year (2.16-1 as a rookie, 2.67-1 last season).

also cut and pasted this, relative to the topic from another post

He's been on a slow, steady climb basically the whole year in his assists, averaging 6 in 2 games in Oct, 7.1 in 16 games in Nov, 8.3 in 15 games in Dec, 9.3 in 15 games in Jan, and 10.9 in 7 games in Feb. I think he has an outside shot at 10 apg on the season, but should definitely make 9 if the team stays healthy.
Rondo's games/assists per game/assists to TO ratio by month
Oct 2/6/2.4
Nov 16/7.1/3.8
Dec 15/8.3/2.8
Jan 15/9.3/3.3
Feb 7/10.9/2.9

He's stayed around the 3-1 assist to turnover mark all season, but drastically improved in overall assists each month. Considering he's gone from 5.1 last season to 8.5 apg this season and turns only 23 on Feb 22 I think we've got a lot to look forward to. Even if his shot has a long way to go, it has improved drastically already. Considering his 50.3 fg% mark on the season, it's hard to worry too much about how quickly his jump shot comes along, he's obviously working well within his abilities in the meantime. When and if that shot does gain some consistency.... look out league.

[GreenDreamer]

"The kid is 5th in the league in assists per game."

4th according to Yahoo.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/stats/bycat ... ng&sort=27

NBA.com andESPN have him at 5th. It's only by a hair anyways.

[Bad-Thoma]

Also, nice OP btw.

[GreenDreamer]

I cut and pasted this from another topic, it was easier than typing it all again. This was pre-Dallas numbers.

As for the turnovers, every good assists guy ends up with plenty of turnovers.. Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, and currently Chris Duhon in NY are good examples. Usually the "magic" number for a pg is 3-1 assists to turnovers, Rondo is currently 451-143 on the season, or 3.15-1. Last night he had 11-4, almost the 3-1 mark. For comparison, on the season Nash is 449-174 (2.58-1), Duhon 408-144 (2.83-1), Kidd 428-122 (3.5-1), CP3 is 496-141 (3.52-1), Baron Davis 317-101 (3.13-1), and Calderon is 346-82 (4.2-1). That's pretty good company, especially for a guy as young as Rondo, and he's improved each year (2.16-1 as a rookie, 2.67-1 last season).

also cut and pasted this, relative to the topic from another post

He's been on a slow, steady climb basically the whole year in his assists, averaging 6 in 2 games in Oct, 7.1 in 16 games in Nov, 8.3 in 15 games in Dec, 9.3 in 15 games in Jan, and 10.9 in 7 games in Feb. I think he has an outside shot at 10 apg on the season, but should definitely make 9 if the team stays healthy.
Rondo's games/assists per game/assists to TO ratio by month
Oct 2/6/2.4
Nov 16/7.1/3.8
Dec 15/8.3/2.8
Jan 15/9.3/3.3
Feb 7/10.9/2.9

He's stayed around the 3-1 assist to turnover mark all season, but drastically improved in overall assists each month. Considering he's gone from 5.1 last season to 8.5 apg this season and turns only 23 on Feb 22 I think we've got a lot to look forward to. Even if his shot has a long way to go, it has improved drastically already. Considering his 50.3 fg% mark on the season, it's hard to worry too much about how quickly his jump shot comes along, he's obviously working well within his abilities in the meantime. When and if that shot does gain some consistency.... look out league.

Good stuff, BT

[SonicYouth34]

Double R is the man and is really coming into his own as the floor general. Usually he's really good with the turnovers but some times (like the other night) he can get a bit sloppy with the rock