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we turned it over 19 times last night.It seems that every game we have about 20 turnovers. Pierce as usual lead the charge with 5. 20 turnovers is the equivalent of 20-30 points we are giving away every time we play. I don't know what the answer is but if we could reduce turnovers we would have won the game easily. As for the refs it seems like every game there is a huge disparity in fouls called against us. I think a couple of things are at work here. One is the other coaches whine about us grabbing etc so the refs are pre conditioned to calling stuff against us. It's funny how the Lakers have come out not playing celtic style D but they aren't being called forfouls like we are. ANother reason is that our players and our coach complain a lot. this pisses the refs off and makes them less willing to give us the benefit of close calls. Finally there's the "champ" factor. we are the champs and I think that the refs subconsciously give the other team the benefit of calls so they can stay in the game with us. what's really weird is that I can understand the home team getting more calls but even when we're at home it seems like the calls are going against us. I'll admit I'm biased here but it sure seems like night in and night out we're on the short end of getting calls.

Calls going against us at home has been going on for decades...nothing new there.

I agree with the TOs, though...if we kept those down we wouldn't even care that the other team gets way more FTs than us since we'd still win handily...

I hate bitching about officiating but I don't know Doc doesn't throw a chair. Dick Bavetta can kiss my ass he is just awful.

Pierce's is being overused as a ball handler because we don't have a back up pg to speak of and that is leading to TO's but he is also getting manhandled and not getting calls. Which would be fine if we weren't getting touch fouled to death on both ends. Young physical bigs are always susceptible to floppers, but Baby and Leon got used last night and those officials should be embarassed by the game tape. Baby had at least two fouls that he did not touch the offensive player and they scored. Leon had the offensive rebound the went up under the basket because he got hacked on the arm and no call.

Refs are going to miss calls, home teams are going to get calls, and as fans we see calls through tinted glasses that said there is always more of those situations when Bavetta calls the game. He wants to sort of dictate the style of play but he isn't a good enough official anymore to be worried about **** like that he needs to try to make the right call once in a while.

maybe its because he's a young guy in the league but I thought the refs were out to get Pruitt last night big time. I mean he would take it to the hole and get hacked to death and get no call, then when hes running back on D he touches the guy's hip and its a foul....they called a few questionable ones last night for number 13...

Seems like Powe and Perkins get the short end of the stick on calls, but that is probably due to the fact that they don't want to call stuff on the big three and so they overcompensate. We have a reputation for setting illegal screens, but watching the game shows that everybody does it and we just get called for it more often. Putting Utah in the bonus so early last night really hurt us. We had 30 fouls to their 18 and we went to the hoop as often as they did.

If Rondo could stay on the floor it would help, but it does get tiring to see the foul fest that is called when our second team hits the floor. Poor Scal got 3 fouls just checking in.

sully, I agree Bavetta is **** awful...that sequence during the last 60 seconds of the first half was a **** travesty and an insult to the game of basketball itself with all those **** ridiculous whistles. I wouldn't have minded one bit if Doc went up to Bavetta, wrapped his hands around his neck, and gritted through his teeth "Is Doc gonna have to choke an old bitch?"

in ALL seriousness...the refs have cost the Celtics AT LEAST 4-5 games this season(I'm sure I've missed a few games too)

1-Christmas day
2-Golden State
3-Portland
4-2nd LA game
5-Last Night

and they tried like hell on the last trip to Philly--Ray had to hit that 3 pointer at the end---I really don't remember ANY game in which the refs have HELPED the C's win a game.

It is the lack of Tommy being on the road, these bastards think they can get away with it.

Celtics 14 assists 19 turnovers

Rondo 7 assists 1 turnover

Seriously guys, do the math. The rest of the team combined for 7 assists and 18 turnovers. Do ya think that maybe we could run some more of our offense through the kid, especially at the BEGINNING of games? Rondo dribbling the ball down the court and then passing it off to Paul or Ray isn't what I'm talking about, even though Doc likes it. He seems to think that running plays which take ten seconds off of the shot clock just to get Ray the ball... not a shot, just the ball... are the way to go.

Establish your point guard? Why do that?

By the way. By taking the ball out of the kids hands last, early in the game, Doc basically set Rondo up to get cheap fouls called on him. When matched up against a premier player in the league, you better give as good as you get or you are going to get shafted by the refs. How could Rondo do that when he's giving the ball up almost every time down the floor? By the way, Paul and ray aren't particularly willing to give the ball back to him, no matter how big of a mess they are in.

MaxwellSmart wrote:in ALL seriousness...the refs have cost the Celtics AT LEAST 4-5 games this season(I'm sure I've missed a few games too)

1-Christmas day
2-Golden State
3-Portland
4-2nd LA game
5-Last Night

and they tried like hell on the last trip to Philly--Ray had to hit that 3 pointer at the end---I really don't remember ANY game in which the refs have HELPED the C's win a game.

Agreed...we have certainly not played well enough to win EVERY game but the ones you mention about are certainly ones we got jobbed in. For instance, we lost to Cleveland in Cleveland...I'm fine with it, we played like ass, they played well. But the games you mention above are totally true...

How come we dont see such posts when the Celts get all the critical calls and end up on the winning side.. I think u guys got away with a fair share of moving screens and rough play that was not called by the refs.. This year they are clamping down on it...

May be it is the style of play that makes the refs make calls against the celts..

MyInsatiableOne wrote: Agreed...we have certainly not played well enough to win EVERY game but the ones you mention about are certainly ones we got jobbed in.

Your kidding right????
So basically if Im understanding this correctly, every game you guys have lost was because you guys got jibbed........ It wasnt because of turnovers or poor shooting or good defense played by other teams.......... Its just you guys got jibbed.

MyInsatiableOne wrote: For instance, we lost to Cleveland in Cleveland...I'm fine with it, we played like ass, they played well. But the games you mention above are totally true...

So in your mind as well as other Celtic fans you cant argue about the Cavs loss, RIGHT?
I mean at least I hope your not and it would seriously be a joke since you guys were on a 4 game losing streak and you did play the Cavs at home and you did lose by 15 points, but its funny I mean the way Im reading your post is that you guys should be 55-1, am I correct??
And the only reason you guys lost the other 11 games was because you guys got robbed by the reffs and David Stern............ WOW.

Tony you are one of the most hurtin people I think to ever post on the internet. He mentioned 5 games he felt that the outcomes were tainted by officiating.....not 12. He never once brought up the Cavs game, you did. How the hell do you take the games he has listed into every loss we have? We have also won games we didnt deserve to win but thats just the way the game goes.

Honestly dude you should really look into getting a life outside of a basketball forum, all this trolling and reading into celtic threads is borderline messed up haha.

MVE85 wrote:Tony you are one of the most hurtin people I think to ever post on the internet. ...

Hurtin......... I didnt know Hurtin was a word and if it is care to explain how Im "one of the most hurtin people I think to ever post on the internet" lollllll

MVE85 wrote:He mentioned 5 games he felt that the outcomes were tainted by officiating.....not 12. ...

Right so even if he ment 5 games then you guys should be 50-6.......... Amazing.

MVE85 wrote:He never once brought up the Cavs game, you did.

Sure he did, here is his post.

MyInsatiableOne wrote:about are certainly ones we got jobbed in. For instance, we lost to Cleveland in Cleveland...I'm fine with it, we played like ass, they played well. But the games you mention above are totally true...

MVE85 wrote:How the hell do you take the games he has listed into every loss we have? We have also won games we didnt deserve to win but thats just the way the game goes....

Okay so then what the point of complaining about every loss, why not except the loss, you just said that you guys have won games that you didnt deserve to win, so why do you guys always complain about the ones you lost, cause it didnt go your way.
So if Im correct, you take credit for games that you didnt deserve and you get pissed and your start multiple threads about games you lost..............

MVE85 wrote: Honestly dude you should really look into getting a life outside of a basketball forum, all this trolling and reading into celtic threads is borderline messed up haha. ...

Get a life, If you see my posts and threads then that means your doing the samething that Im doing, so whats your point.....oh wait there isnt any.
Trolling, funny I didnt know my replies were considered trolling, why cause you disagree with me.
Last I recall this was a discusion board about the game of basketball, that is owned by realgm and not you or any Celtics fan, and why is it that when ever you guys have some that disagrees with you they are considered a troll.
How about comeup with some reasons to prove to other poster why the Cs are being singled out by the league or the reffs instead of every loss start a thread about how bad the reffs were.
Sure I agree the reffs are terrible, but discrediting teams for there ability to beat your team by simply crying about every loss is pretty pathetic, and thats what I see on your board everytime you guys lose.

Its always the reffs fault, its never Rondo fault when he missed an open layup, its not Perkins/Rondo fault for getting into early foul trouble. Its not Ray Allens fault for having a bad shooting night, or Doc for leaving Scal in the game after he commited two bad fouls one after another.
Its always the reffs fault.

Also you lost me on the whole "reading into celtic threads is borderline messed up"
Seriously????

TonyMontana wrote:thats what I see on your board everytime you guys lose.

Easy solution, don't come here if you don't like what you see. Are there any C's fans who routinely go onto the Laker board and nitpick like there's no tomorrow?

greenbeans wrote:

TonyMontana wrote:thats what I see on your board everytime you guys lose.

Easy solution, don't come here if you don't like what you see. Are there any C's fans who routinely go onto the Laker board and nitpick like there's no tomorrow?

You do have a point there.....
Hard to argue with that one....

greenbeans wrote: Easy solution, don't come here if you don't like what you see.

Funny, I didnt know this was a members only board.

greenbeans wrote: Are there any C's fans who routinely go onto the Laker board and nitpick like there's no tomorrow?

I dont know, since I dont keep tabs on you guys when you come on our board and when you do, we respect your input and we dont bash you or your post with insults just because we disagree with what you think.
Maybe you should try it sometime........... Oh wait you have posted on our board and I can honestly say that we have shown you as well as your other poster a lot of respect on our board and if we didnt then our mods delt with the disrespect by warning our members just like your mods have done on here lately.

Kefa461 wrote:

greenbeans wrote:

TonyMontana wrote:thats what I see on your board everytime you guys lose.

Easy solution, don't come here if you don't like what you see. Are there any C's fans who routinely go onto the Laker board and nitpick like there's no tomorrow?

You do have a point there.....
Hard to argue with that one....

Thanks kefa, seriously.
I thought me and you had a bit of respect for one and other, but I have come to understand that you only point out negative things about Laker fans and their posts where it serves you and only if it benifits you, yet you sit here and tell me to talk to our mods when someone says something negative about a Cs fan getting hurt, but when one of your posters posts a video of Joe Theismann getting his knees blown out turn your face and post a joke about it.
And you want to talk about Class when you sit on G.B and call ALL LAKER FANS whining bitchs.....
like I said, I use to have respect for you as a poster and a true fan of the game, but lately you havent shown a bit of respect back to posters that have respected you and your team.
Props brahh.

TonyMontana wrote:

greenbeans wrote: Easy solution, don't come here if you don't like what you see.

Funny, I didnt know this was a members only board.]

I said it's up to you, if all this pro-Celtics stuff really bugs you don't look at it. That's why I don't go and look what Laker fans have to say, because I know it would irritate the **** outta me

[Rarely have I posted on your board, the only time I can recall is when I saw someone was being a complete dick about the Pierce stabbing thing and I called them on it


And you and Kefa need to quit it with the Keanu-speak

Tony.....

I can't argue with his point.....his point is there is no C poster who goes on the Laker board who seems to get into the the Laker conversations as much as some come into our board. Facts are facts. If the facts are wrong, prove them wrong....I can't. Lakers fans come here much more then C fans go there to your board...for whatever reasons. Is he wrong....yes or no?????

Now What I said on the GB was in response to another poster and all said in the GB not in the Laker board. Apples and oranges. Props back to you too brahh

greenbeans wrote:

TonyMontana wrote:

greenbeans wrote: Easy solution, don't come here if you don't like what you see.

Funny, I didnt know this was a members only board.]

I said it's up to you, if all this pro-Celtics stuff really bugs you don't look at it. That's why I don't go and look what Laker fans have to say, because I know it would irritate the **** outta me

[Rarely have I posted on your board, the only time I can recall is when I saw someone was being a complete dick about the Pierce stabbing thing and I called them on it


And you and Kefa need to quit it with the Keanu-speak

I like that one.....