Referee Matters......

Kefa461 · Post #1 » by **Kefa461** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:06 am

Ref matters: There's some change coming to the NBA officiating ranks and it is pretty clear coaches are smelling blood in the water.
Perhaps as a result, coaches have been all over officials this season, on the court and in the media. Often they have suggested bias against certain players or teams. While some of this is standard, there's undoubtedly been an extra edge this season.
In 2007-08, head coaches and assistants were hit with 172 technical fouls. This year the number was already 170 at the start of last week and now has already soared past last season's total. The Hawks' Mike Woodson was ejected Saturday at The Q, for example. He was the third coach ejected this week with those technicals not yet computed in the season's number.
The league has tried to keep control by handing out fines for coaches' public complaints, hitting the Celtics' Doc Rivers with a second fine last week. Cavs coach Mike Brown got a $25,000 fine earlier this season for hinting at a bias in the officiating of Joey Crawford. Recently, Bobcats coach Larry Brown said he felt the league's officials were biased against his team and it was holding them back.

Also this week, the league took the unusual step of fining official Bill Kennedy for his behavior in ejecting Rivers from a game in Chicago when Rivers said Kennedy goaded him. The public announcement of the fine was also interesting.

All of it has fed speculation that not only will there be some new policies installed for next season but that some officials, even high profile ones, will retire or be asked to leave. Don't think the coaches don't know it and they are getting rather liberal because of it.

Doc Rivers and other NBA coaches are a little more confrontational with officials such as Dick Bavetta this season. There are signs that the league may be preparing to address some long-standing concerns with some of its referees.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf ... james.html

8-)

Celtsfan1980 · Post #2 » by **Celtsfan1980** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:17 pm

I hope there's truth to this. I can't even remember his name right now, but Detroit's coach got ejected yesterday. Wade commits a foul and steps out of bounds on the last play but nothing is called. Officiating seems to be getting worse and worse every season.

GuyClinch · Post #3 » by **GuyClinch** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:26 pm

Meh. They need to somehow seperate the refs from revenue stream to convince skeptics like me. The real problem is the leagues vested interest in promoting big stars and how it can spill over into games.

MyInsatiableOne · Post #4 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:29 pm

^I hope this is all true...they are all terrible (with some VERY rare exceptions)...but as long as Stern is commish and Stu Jackson is in charge as well, things will never change. They completely morphed the game from the early 1990s to be all about the PLAYERS instead of the teams, and as soon as Jordan retired they have gone OVERBOARD with this promoting (remember, Jordan played on great TEAMS...Pippen, Rodman, Kerr, Grant, etc...those were good TEAMS!)...

The star-system bias is ridiculous, as is the leniency granted certain teams over others...even the most casual of NBA fans acknowledges the corruption...don't think for one minute Donaghy was the only ref on the take or ordered to do things or call games a certain way by the league office...

The NBA is the WWE with a ball and a slightly less predetermined outcome...I'm not saying the outcome of each game is decided beforehand, but it certainly seems more and more the winning teams win IN SPITE OF the reffing and not just by being better than the other team...

Celtsfan1980 · Post #5 » by **Celtsfan1980** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:36 pm

If Lebron and Wade go to the Knicks as some people suspect, the worst hasn't happened yet. It would be fun playing that team. It would be great if something was done about it before hand.

MyInsatiableOne · Post #6 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:54 pm

Celtsfan1980 wrote:If Lebron and Wade go to the Knicks as some people suspect, the worst hasn't happened yet. It would be fun playing that team. It would be great if something was done about it before hand.

By "fun" do you mean because we'd see the horribly biased officiating even MORE clearly?

Celtsfan1980 · Post #7 » by **Celtsfan1980** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:13 pm

MyInsatiableOne wrote:
Celtsfan1980 wrote:If Lebron and Wade go to the Knicks as some people suspect, the worst hasn't happened yet. It would be fun playing that team. It would be great if something was done about it before hand.

By "fun" do you mean because we'd see the horribly biased officiating even MORE clearly?

That's what I'd be expecting. Maybe they realize it would turn people off from the sport so they'd be better than expected. I'm expecting both to become Knicks so I'm looking forward to it.

MyInsatiableOne · Post #8 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:28 pm

^I have to say, in some sick way, I'm looking forward to it, too...it'd be like the NBA's version of WWE Smackdown!

MyInsatiableOne · Post #9 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:30 pm

From RealGM:

"Pistons Claim Referees Favor Wade"

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... avor_wade/

Gee, this is a shock? Where have they been since the 2006 Finals? :lol:

TonyMontana · Post #10 » by **TonyMontana** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:05 pm

MyInsatiableOne wrote:From RealGM:

"Pistons Claim Referees Favor Wade"

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... avor_wade/

Gee, this is a shock? Where have they been since the 2006 Finals?

The Pistons did get screwed last night and Wade did get a lot of B.S calls.
The league is a joke and so are all these puppets they call reffs.

MyInsatiableOne · Post #11 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:07 pm

TonyMontana wrote:
MyInsatiableOne wrote:From RealGM:

"Pistons Claim Referees Favor Wade"

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... avor_wade/

Gee, this is a shock? Where have they been since the 2006 Finals?

The Pistons did get screwed last night and Wade did get a lot of B.S calls.
The league is a joke and so are all these puppets they call reffs.

Yep...and as much as we always bellyache about the refs in Celtics games (hey, we're homers!), the reffing leauge-wide is awful. I'll watch any game that's on national TV whether it's the C's or not and the reffing is consistent...ly awful! Some guys get way more calls than others (Wade, LeCrab, Kobe) but overall it's terrible. Rookies and young players get picked on while the "stars" get away with nearly every rule violation in the book...a joke!

TonyMontana · Post #12 » by **TonyMontana** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:19 pm

MyInsatiableOne wrote:
Yep...and as much as we always bellyache about the refs in Celtics games (hey, we're homers!), the reffing leauge-wide is awful. I'll watch any game that's on national TV whether it's the C's or not and the reffing is consistent...ly awful! Some guys get way more calls than others (Wade, LeCrab, Kobe) but overall it's terrible. Rookies and young players get picked on while the "stars" get away with nearly every rule violation in the book...a joke!

Your right about certain stars get certain treatments, but DAMMMMMMMM you shouldve watched the Lakers Bulls game on Sat night.
I mean Rose was palming the ball and doing the triple crab moves over and over again and the reffs were letting it go so many times it was pathetic.
I think like I have said it over and over again, the league needs to add one more reff to a game, just like football, you have one lead official and the other three are line judges.

MyInsatiableOne · Post #13 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:23 pm

The refs also need to be held WAY more accountable...get rid of this KGB-type mentality where the coaches and players get these hugely putative fines and/or suspensions for criticizing a ref, while the ref escapes all responsibility or scrutiny...that's what's so **** angering...the NFL will routinely come out after games and admit so-and-so blew a call or their reviewing so-and-so's reffing performance, but the NBA treats the players and coaches the way the USSR, Nazi Germany, and most college campuses treat any criticism of the dominant and incorrect view...with harshness!

And Stern wonders why people have less than 0% faith in the integrity of the sport...

Celtics_85 · Post #14 » by **Celtics_85** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:00 pm

The sad part of all the bias calls the so called stars get from the refs is that any person with basketball knowledge knows their star status is tainted. Stern has to have his hand in this to be fining all the coaches when they are right and when bad officiating takes place the refs don't get fined or suspended. As long as us as fans keep excepting what is going on and we keep contributing money to the cause it won't change. Maybe it is time the consumer starts to make some noise.

MyInsatiableOne · Post #15 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:25 pm

^Well the only $$ I willingly contribute to the NBA (and all sports in general) is watching on TV...I stopped going to games and unless I get them as gifts, I no longer buy sports t-shirts/shorts/etc...

For instance, the "undisclosed amount" the ref that goaded Doc in Chicago...yet they publicize Doc's fine...what absurdity...the ref probably wasn't even fined, just "talked to"...

chakdaddy · Post #16 » by **chakdaddy** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:10 pm

MyInsatiableOne wrote:^They completely morphed the game from the early 1990s to be all about the PLAYERS instead of the teams, and as soon as Jordan retired they have gone OVERBOARD with this promoting (remember, Jordan played on great TEAMS...Pippen, Rodman, Kerr, Grant, etc...those were good TEAMS!)...

Wait a minute - are you somehow implying that they didn't go overboard with promoting stars until *AFTER* Jordan retired?

3LeafClover · Post #17 » by **3LeafClover** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:52 pm

The game has gone Reggie Miller. There's a reason Dwyane Wade is the NBA's leading scorer: he lives at the charity stripe. My jaw is on the floor every time I watch a Miami game. Is it a coincidence that he is also one of the most marketed players in the league? Which came first, the preferential treatment or the endorsement deals?

And I know a lot of people will say it's a moot point, because the Celtics have a lot of star-power, therefore, how can they complain? But it's not the same, because we have aging superstars in the twilight of their careers; no big sneaker endorsements coming their way with an eye on recruiting new fans.

Rondo is starting to make a name for himself and may eventually start getting preferential treatment once the endorsement deals start rolling in -- and you'll notice Rajon is starting to flop around on contact, à la Reggie Miller, à la Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton et al.

I knew the San Antonio/Boston game was going to be entertaining the other night, because, despite the fact that both teams have talented personnel, they are stars past the age endorsement relevance. The referees didn't have a dog in the hunt.

The Celtics will have to beat the Cavaliers in Cleveland, as well as the officiating crews. Heinsohn always says there are three teams in every game. But remember "Anything's possiblllllllllllle!!!"

DEEP3CL · Post #18 » by **DEEP3CL** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:46 pm

Good topic Kefa461, we all gotta remember here that the guys they put in charge of overseeing the refs was some ex-Army dude. They guys is probably a hard ass to say the least.

Jammer · Post #19 » by **Jammer** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:12 am

Let's see, an NBA official "meets" with the refs for an hour before every game,
going over what is and isn't a foul (for that night).

The NBA brings in an outsider, a retired general, to be supervisor of referees.
Talk about control, this is the ultimate give away.

There is no turnover in referees, no firing the bottom 5% every year.
The good ole boys and gals continue to return to not calling the rule book every year.

3 Seconds. Rarely called.
Palming. Even rarer.

All the pushing and shoving off the ball could easily be eliminated,
just by playing by the rule book.

The refs have become an extension of the NBA's marketing arm,
helping determine not only who gets into the playoffs,
but the actual matchups,
and who advances,
and how many games each series lasts.

The billionaire owners seem to be taking chance out of the performance of their league.

Let's see, do you believe that the lottery hasn't been fixed since Ewing.
Do you have any idea the odds against all the pick jumps the past ten years.
It's ridiculous.

Love to see what happens when that little ball disappears from the circulating balls,
goes down a tube out of sight,
and a ball appears in the combination for who gets the top 4 picks.
Ready made placement of assets.
Another example of billionaires not leaving their business to chance.

MyInsatiableOne · Post #20 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:36 pm

chakdaddy wrote:
MyInsatiableOne wrote:^They completely morphed the game from the early 1990s to be all about the PLAYERS instead of the teams, and as soon as Jordan retired they have gone OVERBOARD with this promoting (remember, Jordan played on great TEAMS...Pippen, Rodman, Kerr, Grant, etc...those were good TEAMS!)...

Wait a minute - are you somehow implying that they didn't go overboard with promoting stars until *AFTER* Jordan retired?

No no no, they DEFINITELY did it with Jordan...but he seemed to really be the only one who got the star treatment. Since he's been gone the league has been so desperate to find the "next Jordan" and has failed..so instead of having ONE superduperstar, they have many and they ALL get the star treatment, which causes the ridiculousness in the reffing we've seen over the last decade or so...