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The Celtics got a big wake iup call in yesterday's game. The offense was in shambles from the opening tip, and it was guaranteed to be that due to Doc's gameplan and coaching to this point of the season. The Celtics cannot beat the Cavs in Cleveland if they do not address some of the following issues.

1. Rondo needs to run the offense whenever he is on the court. When he is off of the court, then Stephon runs it.That means greatly reducing, if not outright decommisioning, sets that are designed to get Paul and Ray the ball to "playmake". Getting them the ball to score, and then make a deecnt pass if that scoring opportunity gets shut off? No problem there. Getting them the ball simply to get them that ball? Guaranteed offensive mediocrity.

2. Paul and Ray must be ordered to pass the ball back to Rondo in the halfcourt when they don't have anything else, or when the offense dictates that they should. I've seen FAR too much of them blowing him off over this season. Sometimes it seems to me as if they think that turning the ball over is a better idea than passing their point guard the ball. The main problem with this is that Paul and Ray, like many limited playmakers, think along the following line: "I'm looking for my shot or an assist", as if one the only good passes are the ones which will lead directly to a shot. This is a BAD mentality on the offensive end. You make the RIGHT pass, you don't just look for asssists. That means rotating the ball, getting rid of it quickly when you don't have anything (preferrably to your point guard), getting it into the post, etc. This is further compounded by their limited court vision and inability to see the second pass. The Cavs didn't bother to guard Rondo because why bother guarding someone who isn't passes to by his own teammates?

Doc, as per usual, tolerated and even REWARDED that garbage against the Cavaliers when he pulled Rondo for House. The message being sent "It is really Rondo's fault that the offense is in shambles. I'll put a 'better offensive player out there' to get things going". What happened? The 1st quarter devolved into an even worse butt whooping, with Eddie not even being guarded by the Cavs as they mobbed Paul and Ray. Did anyone see Eddie repeatedly standing WIDE OPEN, on the weakside, jumping up and down waving his arms, while Paul and Ray made a mess of things? He didn't have anyone closer to him than the paint on several possessions, yet he never received a timely pass. Paul and Ray didn't see him. Big surprise there.

3. Rondo needs to be established EARLY on in EVERY game. The first quarter was a classic example of the "Let's get Paul, Ray and everyone else going before Rondo" approach. Part of this is to establish him as a jumpshooter early in the game. The longer the longer the game wears on before he takes his shots, the less likely he is to shot from the outside. That has been the case with him ALL ALONG. It is directly linked with the pregame warmups. They stop shooting just before the game begins, and Rondo can carry over those warmups into the game. Unfortunately we go 15 - 20 possessions before it occurs to Doc "hey, maybe we should do something to get Rondo a shot." That is unacceptable. If the kid doesn't get his shots in early, he will be ineffective later on. Doc MUST know this, yet we go out there running stuff that marginalizes him. The game where we look to establish him early usually end up being good offensive games for us, and usually end up being wins. Evidently Doc thinks that kind of stuff is overrated.

In addition to this, taking the ball out of the kid's hands means that Paul and Ray are actually the ones making the decisions out there, and they make BAD decisions for Rondo. The kid usually ends up forcing the issue, because he quite frankly doesn't know when he's going to get another crack at making something happen. He needs picks set for him, and must be under strict orders to not turndown open jumpers within his range, especially late in the shot clock. If this means that Rondo takes 20 shots in some games, so be it. To do otherwise is to throw Rondo away.

4. Play uptempo - That means that people actually run up the court quite a bit. It also means that the ball must be inbounded quickly. Kendrick Perkins and Big Baby are two of the worst players in the entire league at getting the ball back inbounds. Seriously, I can't think of anyone worse off the top of my head. Perk turns his back on the floor, while he WALKS out of bounds, when inbounding the ball on almost every made basket. it is a joke. One of the Cavs actually fell down in a heap in the last game, right in fron of our basket, and Rondo had to scream at Perk to get the ball back in to fastbreak on that opportunity because Perk hadn't the slightest idea of what was going on. It is a DISGRACE that our team is run this way. Even teams which play at a slow pace get the ball back in quicker than we do. If you want to crank the tempo of the game up, you NEED to get the ball back in quickly. The best player on our team at this is Scal, and that isn't because of Doc Rivers. That comes from playing for Byron Scott and with Jason Kidd.

I shouldn't point the finger only at our bigs (though they are beyond horrible in this regard). ANYONE near the basket when the ball goes through the hoop should be ready to inbound it. Watching Paul Pierce walk past the ball, while it bounces at his feet, is all too common a sight for me. Watching Rondo wait for his big men to inbound the ball, instead of doing it himself, is distressing. Watching Rondo have to call somebody back because ALL four of his teammates headed down the floor is a joke. Doc Rivers better get his head out of his butt, because this stuff is insane. When we are supposedly trying to pick the pace of the game up, we are losing all momentum every time our opponents hit a shot because of this. This is the sort of stuff that can be corrected very quickly in practice, which just shows that Doc hasn't addressed it in any way. When Scalabrine gets us counter breaks with fast inbounds passes, it seemingly evades Doc's mind as to why this is happening.


If these four points don't get addressed, we have no chance of taking out the Cavs in a game at Cleveland unless Thibodeau can figure out a way to shut their offense down completely. Doc has already found a way to do that to our offense.

You're acting like rondo would have had a spectacular game if he was dominating the ball. When he did, he looked bad. There was one posession, williams was gapping him, he drove right into williams and chucked the ball with the idea that "hey if it's closer it's higher percentage" but bricked it badly because it was a terrible shot. that's rondo's problem - shot selection. He drives expecting to collapse the defense, and when it doesn't collapse he's just lost - he's just not a scorer.

Actually one of the more solid long posts I've read in a while. Much of what you bring up about Rondo I tend to agree with especially the part about getting him more involved in the offense early in the game. I'm talking the first 1-3 minutes, get him going to the hoop. It loosens him up and turns on his confidence. Even while taking care of our last 8 or 9 games our offense has been stagnant for long stretches. I hope...and think that KG will cure some of these issues, basically promoting much better ball movement. Rondo definitely needs to be on offensive option earlier in the game. Who knows, maybe things will click right away once everyone is back and we'll be back to an offensive juggernaut like we were last year.

One thing I have to disagree with the OP is on Perk and getting the ball up the court. He might turn his back when taking it out but I do believe he gets it out quickly. He's also one of the better starting centers in the league at rebounding and outletting the ball up the court to start the break. He had that skill as a very young player.

SuigintouEV wrote:You're acting like rondo would have had a spectacular game if he was dominating the ball. When he did, he looked bad. There was one posession, williams was gapping him, he drove right into williams and chucked the ball with the idea that "hey if it's closer it's higher percentage" but bricked it badly because it was a terrible shot. that's rondo's problem - shot selection. He drives expecting to collapse the defense, and when it doesn't collapse he's just lost - he's just not a scorer.

I don't want Rondo dominating the ball, I want him CONTROLLING the offense. I don't want Paul and Ray having that control. Didn't you notice that they couldn't even find Eddie when he came into the game, even thought the Cavs weren't even guarding him on the weakside?

Rondo is the soul of this offense. He is the one who makes things go. he was at the center of that 14 - 0 run, because he knows how to get his teammates involved. Doc, however, likes to do otherwise. Chauncey Billups doesn't dominate the ball, but he controls his offense. Kidd doesn't dominate the ball, but he controls his offense. Rondo, when he is ALLOWED to, doesn't dominate the ball, but he controls his offense. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen consistently. What we got treated to in yesterdays game, especially in the first quarter, was what happens when Rondo is chained to giving Paul or Ray the ball, instead of being options of his own. Plays designed specifically to get either paul or Ray the ball. To shoot? Sometimes, but most of the time, there is no shot there and they get the ball anyways, because that is the way the offense is structured. That isn't CONTROL of anything. THEY have the control, and they made horrible use of it. When Doc put Eddie in to make things "better", they got worse, because Rondo chained to a bad plan was better than Eddie... considering that Eddie never even got the ball even though he was ALL BY HIMSELF on half of the possessions. He actually needs to get the ball to shoot, and the guys running the offense couldn't manage to do that.

I have hated this offense for a long time anyways. Don't even go down the "We won a Championship" path. We won that on defense. A historically dominating one run by Thibodeau, not Doc. The offense is Doc's baby, and that has been an underperformer all along. Do you realize that our turnover rate is with several THOUSANDTHS of a percent from the team of a couple of years ago. The 18 game losing streak bunch. Why do you think that is. Doc used to whine about not having any veterans, and that is why the execution was bad. Well he has three Hall of Famers and a great young point guard, and we still bleed them. Could it be that his system, itself, is the problem? Doc doesn't want to go down that path. What makes yesterday all the more crazy is that we didn't have that many turnovers. Could you imgaine what it would have been like if we had our NORMAL amount?

We are going to need to score points to beat Cleveland on their home court. We are smaller than they are, and will need to RUN. yet we do NOTHING to facilitate that. We don't even inbound the ball correctly. I was watching Kwame Brown last night, and even that cowpie is better than Perk at getting the ball back in. If you want to play uptempo... which we should do against bigger teams, then we need to pick the pace up across the board. Doc doesn't seem to get that.

DorfonCeltics wrote:Actually one of the more solid long posts I've read in a while. Much of what you bring up about Rondo I tend to agree with especially the part about getting him more involved in the offense early in the game. I'm talking the first 1-3 minutes, get him going to the hoop. It loosens him up and turns on his confidence. Even while taking care of our last 8 or 9 games our offense has been stagnant for long stretches. I hope...and think that KG will cure some of these issues, basically promoting much better ball movement. Rondo definitely needs to be on offensive option earlier in the game. Who knows, maybe things will click right away once everyone is back and we'll be back to an offensive juggernaut like we were last year.

One thing I have to disagree with the OP is on Perk and getting the ball up the court. He might turn his back when taking it out but I do believe he gets it out quickly. He's also one of the better starting centers in the league at rebounding and outletting the ball up the court to start the break. He had that skill as a very young player.

What are you disagreeing about? I never said a thing about outlest on rebounds ( you are overrating Perk there, by the way). Perk is beyond horrible at inbounding the ball on MADE BASKETS. That is an important thing to do if you actually want to play uptempo. Perk could be a model of what NOT to do, he's that bad. It isn't just him either. The only guys wgho seem to know what they are doing are players who got their start OUTSIDE of Doc's system. Our homegrown guys haven't a clue, bigs and smalls.

Great post, GreenDreamer. Well-thought out, cogent examples to illustrate a point, and written with passion. I wish there was a way this info could get to Doc et al.

The move to E House late in the first quarter was surely strange. Doc still has last season in his mind...where if the offense struggled, it must have been because Rondo wasn't stretching the defense. You're right though: the offense struggled because the ball wasn't in Rondo's hands. Even going back to last season, we were at our absolute best when the ball was in Rondo's hands. You would think that Doc would attempt to maximize that--not only are we at our most efficient w/Rondo leading things, it also saves some wear-and-tear on Ray, Paul and KG (when he's healthy).

The OP has some decent points, but overall it's totally reactionary and pretty ridiculous.

1. OBVIOUSLY we want to play uptempo against Cleveland. But credit the Cavs, they played harder than we did, and we were sleepwalking. Hey, it happens, but I don't think Doc needs a memo about this. This falls under the "DUH" category, and I'm sure Doc is telling them to play uptempo. But if they're going to sleepwalk, then we can't win. You might as well have said "if we play with no effort and no focus, we can't beat the Cavs." Gee, news flash.

2. About rotating the ball: See #1. Duh, they should do that. Yes, they didn't do it against the Cavs, which is why we had our worst loss of the season. I don't think it's a scheme issue. It's execution. I saw more 1-pass-and-shot possessions in this game than in just about any game this year. I don't expect we will play that way in the playoffs. Again, Doc doesn't need a memo about this.

3. You're overrating Rondo's ability to control the offense. Teams have long ago figured out that Rondo isn't a scorer. So they force him to do just that. Rondo can get by any PG, but he can't finish against good interior D. Just putting the ball in his hands in the half court doesn't get us very far. We need our best players to make plays. If Rondo has an opening, he should take it, otherwise, our half court offense works best thru KG and Paul. Not having KG has really hurt this, btw. Teams leave Rondo alone not because Paul and Ray won't pass to him, but because Rondo isn't a threat. That's the problem. When he has big games, it's all because he gets to the rim. If a team stops that, Rondo is ineffective.

Think about it- 10 seconds on the clock, and we have to get something going. You can put the ball in Rondo's hands, which will either lead to a jumper or a contested drive. Sure, Rondo can pass, but we need to get a shot up quickly, so we can't have 2-3 more passes. Guysa ren't going to sag off their man to cover Rondo. Paul OTOH draws the defense, so now somebody is open. KG is a great post passer, so cuts can be effective. Rondo... he's just not that effective in the half court. His specialty is getting the ball downcourt quickly and taking advantage of early offense opportunities. He should always be doing this, but let's face it disciplined teams like the Cavs aren't going to get beat downcourt consistently.


Anways, all this will look a lot different when:
- KG comes back
- We are playing for real

Till then, chill.

And as for winning on Thib's D last year and not Doc's O... we were still among the most efficient offenses in the league last year. So yes, our offense is pretty good, though our defense is better. You don't win a title with a crappy offense.

GreenDreamer wrote:

SuigintouEV wrote:I have hated this offense for a long time anyways. Don't even go down the "We won a Championship" path. We won that on defense. A historically dominating one run by Thibodeau, not Doc. The offense is Doc's baby, and that has been an underperformer all along. Do you realize that our turnover rate is with several THOUSANDTHS of a percent from the team of a couple of years ago. The 18 game losing streak bunch. Why do you think that is. Doc used to whine about not having any veterans, and that is why the execution was bad. Well he has three Hall of Famers and a great young point guard, and we still bleed them. Could it be that his system, itself, is the problem? Doc doesn't want to go down that path. What makes yesterday all the more crazy is that we didn't have that many turnovers. Could you imgaine what it would have been like if we had our NORMAL amount?

The reason this team is so turnover prone is because its not a jump shooting team. Outside of ray allen and KG every single player relies on the paint. Give perkins an offensive game a la PJ brown and rondo a perimeter game a la fisher and this team doesn't turn the ball over as much. The turnovers aren't so bad because they lead to really high FG%s and an efficient offense.

I think that this is a really interest, well-reasoned post, and I can't find too much to disagree with. Yes, your three key points are important to beating Cleveland in Cleveland--or any team anywhere. But as ParticleMan implied, the team was also not playing with full energy or focus.

I would add a fourth point to beating the Cavs: clog the lane and make LeBron a jumpshooter. He is not going to hit them all, and the ones he does hit will be better than the constant and-1's he'll get driving to the hoop.

I freak out when Rondo is not the main facilitator of the offense. A lot of the times, we run our offense with Perk getting it in the high post. This usually leads to Ray or Paul getting it in a position that is not conducive to scoring. This is the reason why our turnovers are so astronomical. Perk at the top of the key would work if he was a threat to shoot the ball because it would draw the big out of the paint but he is essentially throwing it to 4 players with 5 defenders doing work. I guess I just don't get the fascination with this strategy.

I feel like this offense runs best when Rondo has the ball 80% of the time, but I don't have the stats to prove that. I can only tell you that this team has a serious turnover issue. It is the biggest problem with the team. I feel like we have seen Ray with the ball with 4 seconds on the clock with a guy in his face 2 feet behind the 3 pt line lately. The offense hasn't been running well.