Dealing Ray is the most logical option

[eitanr]

I really don't love saying it, but dealing Ray Allen is really the most logical step going forward. Let's consider a dream off-season in a realistic sense for the Celtics.

They re-sign one of their PFs (Powe or Davis) sign a nice vet big, let's say Dice. They move up in the draft and take a backup PG. There really isn't too much else they can do this off-season besides a combination of the above. After this dream scenario, do you really feel they can compete with Cleveland?

I hate to be the pessimist here, but I feel I'm a realist as well. If Boston keeps the big 3 and signs a nice free agent big this off-season like Dice, I don't think we beat Cleveland in a 7 game series. The goal here is to find a way where Boston can compete for a title in the next few years while also jump shooting their future. The reason I bring up Allen is because he has nice value as a large expiring deal and is also the oldest member of the big 3. So what deals are out there? With many other teams looming for 2010 free agency, the C's can be in the driver seat in several deals and really get some nice youth and depth where neccessary.

For example: Deal Ray Allen to Golden State for Maggette, Crawford, Brandon Wright and GSW's 2nd rounder.

Boston can probably even get more out of the deal. They would then be loaded at the 2/3 slot. Crawford can also serve as the backup PG to Rondo, and Pierce can get neccessary rests and days off in back to back situation. Finally, Wright would bring much needed athletiscm and more depth to the 4 slot.

Golden State loves it because they can finally move on with their rebuilding movement. They save nearly 20 million next season and 10 million a year for the next 4 seasons.

That's just one example...there are probably others. The idea is to get more depth, younger, and get a team that can contend for longer. Dealing Allen can make that scenario happen.

[GuyClinch]

I don't agree. I would rather keep Ray and then take a run at Joe Johnson. Quality > Quantity in the NBA. None of those guys are clearly better then Ray - even at this point in his career.

This is the aging star problem. If your trade them your always going to get damaged goods back - best you can generally do is get young guys (draft picks) who MIGHT be as good as your star. And that's not a good option for a team whose window is closing.

[Hemingway]

How is the team after that trade going to beat he Cavs? The team this year, I still believe if healthy would be winning another title. I don't think this board really agrees with that I think everyone has forgotten how good KG is and how the team runs with him in there.

Trading Ray only makes sense if we get better or get really great pick that Danny believes will be a super star.

[Kefa461]

Ray will be here next season.....count on it.

[BRUNiNHO91]

Trade Ray thread number 2. Im going to keep track of these...lol

Could he not have posted this is the previous one?

[Frank Lucas]

Ray Allen will be hear next season. The more and more I think it about it, I just feel it makes more sense to keep Ray on the team. Just think about it in 2010 the Cs would clear Ray, Scal, and Tony off the books. The only big contracts would be KG and Paul (who will have 1 more year left on his contract after 2010) I think it much better to re-build the bench and make a run at it again with the big three. I can see a case where both Ray and Paul could be gone during the 2010 off-season.

[mwhis21]

Quality over quantity?

Didn't we just get beat because of our lack of quantity?

[chakdaddy]

Quality over quantity?

Didn't we just get beat because of our lack of quantity?

No, we got beat because a big piece of our quality was injured. We lacked quantity that something like Joe Smith + Posey would have remedied, but that wouldn't have replaced KG well enough to matter.

The principle is that quantity can be added cheaply; quality cannot. You get your quantity with MLE, draft picks, trading filler (TA+Scal).

The problem is that any team trading for Ray is just looking at him as an expiring contract. Ultimately, his talent is an afterthought, and his trade value isn't much different than Theo Ratliff or Kwame Brown's was.

But from our standpoint, he's still a core player - so from our perspective, it's not like we're trying to cash in Ratliff's contract - we would be trading Ray Allen.

The point is, it's quite unlikely that a team would want to dump the salary of a good player enough to replace Ray.

Plenty of teams would love to trade some pretty good players for a useless big expiring contract.

We would love to get those kind of players in exchange for a useless expiring contract. But those players aren't worth trading Ray Allen for.

Unless a team really wants to do a salary dump the level of Gasol. The closest options would be Vince Carter, maybe even Amare Stoudemire.


We're writing ourselves off too quickly - we could have won a title with KG this year, though with the lack of depth it would have been hard. But we can add a little depth and be a favorite next year with a health KG.

[Celts17Pride]

Dealing Ray makes no sense. Pierce, Ray & KG have about a 3 year window together. Ray will be extended.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Step 1. Trade Ray Allen.
Step 2. Ray Allen complains. Gets a buyout on the last year of his contract.
Step 3. Ray Allen re-signs with the Cs.
Step 4. Win championship.

[eitanr]

I disagree that we can't get talent back that is better than Ray Allen.

Considering his age and overall talents, right now I'd rather have Jamaal Crawford, Corey Maggette, and Brandon Wright than Ray Ray. I know he's expiring and if DA truly believes that he can get someone like Joe Johnson in a 2010 free agency period that will feature some of the bigger markets vying for free agents, well then that's his perogative. I don't think Boston will get someone in 2010 that is better than both Crawford and Maggette and Wright...just saying. I see that Golden State deal as the best scenario since it means more depth, youth, and picks.

Maggette is similar to Pierce, but will be that ever important scoring wing off the bench. Corey can also allow Pierce to play far less minutes and even take some nights off during the season on back to backs etc.

Brandon Wright would be huge for Boston off the bench. He provides length and athleticsm similar to Noah and Thomas...2 guys and type of guys that continually have given the Celtics problems.

Finally, that GSW 2nd Rd pick could be useful in deals etc or if DA can muster another 2nd rounder into a rotational player like he has in the past. The C's would still have T. Allen, Scal as expirings in 2010 for slight flexibility.

Overall I believe this Boston team is far better than with Ray Ray and this is before re-signing any of our own free agents or making any other deals.

PF K. Garnett/ B. Wright/ Scal
SF P. Pierce/ C. Maggette/ B. Walker
C K. Perkins/ L. Powe
SG J. Crawford/ T. Allen
PG R. Rondo/ J. Crawford

[mwhis21]

"We're writing ourselves off too quickly - we could have won a title with KG this year, though with the lack of depth it would have been hard. But we can add a little depth and be a favorite next year with a health KG."


Its like you made a great case for your argument then backed off it with this statement. Would we have won a title with a healthy KG? That is a good debate, but the thought of tading Allen isn't because we don't think he can play anymore, but rather he is one of our only assets on the roster. He has a huge expiring deal, in a year that has the biggest free agent class in the history of the NBA. I believe that teams will overpay for his contract.

Our second biggest chip Rondo. He is young, cheap and on the verge of stardom. When discussing the future of the Boston Celtics you have to at least ask what could Ray Allen and Rondo bring in a deal?

[Celts17Pride]

I disagree that we can't get talent back that is better than Ray Allen.

Considering his age and overall talents, right now I'd rather have Jamaal Crawford, Corey Maggette, and Brandon Wright than Ray Ray. I know he's expiring and if DA truly believes that he can get someone like Joe Johnson in a 2010 free agency period that will feature some of the bigger markets vying for free agents, well then that's his perogative. I don't think Boston will get someone in 2010 that is better than both Crawford and Maggette and Wright...just saying. I see that Golden State deal as the best scenario since it means more depth, youth, and picks.

Maggette is similar to Pierce, but will be that ever important scoring wing off the bench. Corey can also allow Pierce to play far less minutes and even take some nights off during the season on back to backs etc.

Brandon Wright would be huge for Boston off the bench. He provides length and athleticsm similar to Noah and Thomas...2 guys and type of guys that continually have given the Celtics problems.

Finally, that GSW 2nd Rd pick could be useful in deals etc or if DA can muster another 2nd rounder into a rotational player like he has in the past. The C's would still have T. Allen, Scal as expirings in 2010 for slight flexibility.

Overall I believe this Boston team is far better than with Ray Ray and this is before re-signing any of our own free agents or making any other deals.

PF K. Garnett/ B. Wright/ Scal
SF P. Pierce/ C. Maggette/ B. Walker
C K. Perkins/ L. Powe
SG J. Crawford/ T. Allen
PG R. Rondo/ J. Crawford

No offense but I glad you are not the GM. Wright, Crawford and Maggette in place of Ray does not make the Celtics better. Quanity is not better than Quality.

[chakdaddy]

"We're writing ourselves off too quickly - we could have won a title with KG this year, though with the lack of depth it would have been hard. But we can add a little depth and be a favorite next year with a health KG."


Its like you made a great case for your argument then backed off it with this statement. Would we have won a title with a healthy KG? That is a good debate, but the thought of tading Allen isn't because we don't think he can play anymore, but rather he is one of our only assets on the roster. He has a huge expiring deal, in a year that has the biggest free agent class in the history of the NBA. I believe that teams will overpay for his contract.

Nah my point is that the core is there and that the only problem this year (other than injuries) was the depth. That depth can be addressed without disrupting the core.

I just can't invision any team dumping the salary of someone who would be more valuable to us than Ray.

[chakdaddy]

I don't agree. I would rather keep Ray and then take a run at Joe Johnson. Quality > Quantity in the NBA. None of those guys are clearly better then Ray - even at this point in his career.

This is the aging star problem. If your trade them your always going to get damaged goods back - best you can generally do is get young guys (draft picks) who MIGHT be as good as your star. And that's not a good option for a team whose window is closing.

I don't see how we could take a run at JJ, but I agree.

I can't think of many times trading an aging star has worked, unless you really sucker somebody into giving you a young star for an aging star.

We did the right thing with the original big 3. What were the rumors, something like Sam Perkins for McHale? Hardly worth it. Squeeze everything you can out of your stars and then rebuild, rather than conceding early and trying to do reload with the average junk you get back.

[SuigintouEV]

If you trade allen you've already given up on a title. Might as well trade garnett and pierce off too.

Do you really think a team with Jamal Crawford and Corey Maggette is going anywhere? They're both brutal. One has the efficiency of a poor man's allen iverson and the other neither spreads the floor nor can pass worth a lick. Maggette's only skill is driving, but what's that worth on a team with Perkins and Rondo?

[BRUNiNHO91]

If you trade allen you've already given up on a title. Might as well trade garnett and pierce off too.
Do you really think a team with Jamal Crawford and Corey Maggette is going anywhere? They're both brutal. One has the efficiency of a poor man's allen iverson and the other neither spreads the floor nor can pass worth a lick. Maggette's only skill is driving, but what's that worth on a team with Perkins and Rondo?

Exactly. I don't mind trading Ray, but we have to get something in return. All the trades mentioned so far have been stupid. Maggette, Crawford, RJ, Vince CArter..those don't make us any better..

[adawg212]

I don't agree. I would rather keep Ray and then take a run at Joe Johnson. Quality > Quantity in the NBA. None of those guys are clearly better then Ray - even at this point in his career.

This is the aging star problem. If your trade them your always going to get damaged goods back - best you can generally do is get young guys (draft picks) who MIGHT be as good as your star. And that's not a good option for a team whose window is closing.

Come on now, the ATL Hawks are a young team and are getting better each year, why would they trade their best player that they are building around for Ray Allen? Lets be realistic here guys

[vct33]

The only way to equip this team for life beyond Pierce & Garnett is to trade Ray Allen. If you enjoyed the mediocrity of the past 10-15 seasons, then by all means keep Ray and hope Pierce & KG stay healthy for the next few seasons. Then we can all sit back and watch Rondo and Perk struggle on the playoff bubble for 10 years.

Personally, I'd rather trade Ray for a couple of 20-somethings who can help Rondo and Perk carry the torch for the next decade.

Give me:

Kirilenko & Miles
or
Richardson & Barbosa
or
Gordon & Deng
or
Martin & Nocioni
or
Ellis, Turiaf & Randolph
or
Kaman, Gordon & whoever
or
Okafor & Wallace
or
Howard, Bass & Dampier (I know Dampier is old and doesn't fit the criteria I set)

Obviously some of the deals are moderately unrealistic but the point is you just have to find one team that wants to dump salary for 2010 and still get back someone who can be a serious player in the meanwhile. Or a team that may be losing a player to free agency and wants to work a sign and trade.

[bruno sundov]

I say trade ray for the starting center for POR Pryzbilla,sp? Outlaw and blake. Or straight up for Chandler.