OT: Would Phil Jackson win Lebron a title?

[Octolor]

The rumours are out there that Phil Jackson is done in LA (quote from Barkley.)

If he went to Cleveland do you think this makes the Cavs the favorites to win it all?

I'm a diehard Celts fan but if you put this guy with the Cavs they take it to the next level.

Never mind that Shaq might be dealt to Cleveland as well.

Unfortunately, this puts it all in perspective, Jackson is not overrated.

[Havlicek17]

Considering how good he is at working the refs, it's possible.

Convincing him to coach another team, now I don't think that's possible.

Oh by the way, Red's still the best in my book.

[spf211]

Phil ready to hop on another bandwagon to a title?

No way!

[TonyMontana]

Phil ready to hop on another bandwagon to a title?

No way!

Let me ask you something, could the samething be said about Doc then. I mean he had a lot of losing seasons for how many years? And why didnt he win a title until he team was stalked with two additional H.O.F.

[AmusingFiddle]

No Way. Not until Lebron pulls his head out of his own ass. The guy is a selfish and disrespectful. He doesn't have the IQ to be coached by the get PJ. BTW - Phil is under contract this coming year with the Lakers. If he decideds not to come back, he cannot coach anywhere else until 2010-2011. Which his GF (Jeanie Buss) has already said will be more than likely his retirement year.

[Roscoe Sheed]

^

Those wouldn't be the reasons. LeBron is actually pretty unselfish on the floor. The reason they wouldn't win is the reason they didn't win this season- they don't have enough talent around him, period.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Phil ready to hop on another bandwagon to a title?

No way!

Let me ask you something, could the samething be said about Doc then. I mean he had a lot of losing seasons for how many years? And why didnt he win a title until he team was stalked with two additional H.O.F.

Doc Rivers?? Hopping on a bandwagon? He was hired on to Orlando with a roster that included all-time greats such as Darrell Armstrong, Ben Wallace, Bo Outlaw and Ron Mercer. Unfortunately, he couldn't win a title there, even after signing T-Mac, as well as paying Grant Hill a ton of money to model the latest suits on the sideline.

Then he jumped to Boston, where he had first ballot hall-of-famers in Ricky Davis, Raef Lafrentz, Walter McCarty, as well as an all-star in Paul Pierce.

Yeah, damn that Doc Rivers. What a title-chaser.

[TonyMontana]

Doc Rivers?? Hopping on a bandwagon? He was hired on to Orlando with a roster that included all-time greats such as Darrell Armstrong, Ben Wallace, Bo Outlaw and Ron Mercer.

LOLLLLLL Sure thats why he didnt even make it to the playoffs in 99 then he lost in the first round of the playoff 3 years in a row until he as fired in 04.

Unfortunately, he couldn't win a title there, even after signing T-Mac, as well as paying Grant Hill a ton of money to model the latest suits on the sideline.

You also forgot to throw in Mike Miller Rookie of the year.

Then he jumped to Boston, where he had first ballot hall-of-famers in Ricky Davis, Raef Lafrentz, Walter McCarty, as well as an all-star in Paul Pierce.

Yeah, damn that Doc Rivers. What a title-chaser.

Did I say that???? No why do you twist my words around?

If anything I asked you a simple question DID DOC get a hand out last year since his best W-L% in his career was last year at 805.

If you say yes he did and he didnt deserve his title and he was givin a hand out with Ray and K.G and his cast that was givin to him and he isnt a good caoch then I will agree with you about Phil and his 10 titles.

What is your answer?

[NetsForce]

People hate giving credit where credit is due but the fact is that Phil molded the teams he was on into championship contenders, if you can't see that... Then open your eyes.

[TonyMontana]

Where you at CeltsfanSinceBirth? Or anybody else that can answer my question?

[ocker]

Tony,

Doc was with the team and helped develop the younger players, before getting the title. Whilst Phil would just be jumping to a team that is already set to win a championship.

[bballcool34]

No, but Pau Gasol would...

[LAKESHOW]

the team definitely would have made it to the finals. but he wouldve lost against phil jacksons lakers.

[Celtics_Champs]

not another phil/lakers thread.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Doc Rivers?? Hopping on a bandwagon? He was hired on to Orlando with a roster that included all-time greats such as Darrell Armstrong, Ben Wallace, Bo Outlaw and Ron Mercer.

LOLLLLLL Sure thats why he didnt even make it to the playoffs in 99 then he lost in the first round of the playoff 3 years in a row until he as fired in 04.

Unfortunately, he couldn't win a title there, even after signing T-Mac, as well as paying Grant Hill a ton of money to model the latest suits on the sideline.

You also forgot to throw in Mike Miller Rookie of the year.

Then he jumped to Boston, where he had first ballot hall-of-famers in Ricky Davis, Raef Lafrentz, Walter McCarty, as well as an all-star in Paul Pierce.

Yeah, damn that Doc Rivers. What a title-chaser.

Did I say that???? No why do you twist my words around?

If anything I asked you a simple question DID DOC get a hand out last year since his best W-L% in his career was last year at 805.

If you say yes he did and he didnt deserve his title and he was givin a hand out with Ray and K.G and his cast that was givin to him and he isnt a good caoch then I will agree with you about Phil and his 10 titles.

What is your answer?

If you want me to admit that Phil Jackson is a better coach than Doc Rivers, then yeah, sure, you can definitely have that one. You won't get much argument from me on that one.

However, I guess I didn't interpret your reply to spf211's comment correctly.

Phil ready to hop on another bandwagon to a title?

No way!

Let me ask you something, could the samething be said about Doc then. I mean he had a lot of losing seasons for how many years? And why didnt he win a title until he team was stalked with two additional H.O.F.

When you mentioned "could the same thing be said about Doc then", I was going on the assumption that by "same thing", you were referring to the theory of Phil Jackson winning with talented teams that were assembled before his arrival. I was just making the point that Doc Rivers was in Beantown before the 2 HOFers were acquired, therefore, excluding him as a coach who was jumping on a bandwagon.

Didn't realize that you were making an argument about needing talent to win, which is also very true in this league. Take away KG/Ray from Doc, and the Cs are losing. Take away MJ/Pippen/Shaq/Kobe/Gasol and Phil probably doesn't have titles. You could literally say this about each coach that's ever won a title. You can't bring knives to a gunfight and expect to come out victorious, no matter how great of a coach you are.

Don't get me wrong though. I'm not taking away from Phil's accomplishments. Coaching 3 3peats is something that we might not ever see again. PJ's ability to mesh problematic egos (MJ, Rodman, Shaq, Kobe) into a team concept is unmatched.

[Joe Kleazy]

Tony,

Doc was with the team and helped develop the younger players, before getting the title. Whilst Phil would just be jumping to a team that is already set to win a championship.

Yea like kobe, pre-championship inconsistent lamar, kwame, luke, crittenton, heart transplant turiaf, peanut butter ankle mihm, spaceman radman, and machine. This is what champions are made of.

[TonyMontana]

When you mentioned "could the same thing be said about Doc then", I was going on the assumption that by "same thing", you were referring to the theory of Phil Jackson winning with talented teams that were assembled before his arrival. I was just making the point that Doc Rivers was in Beantown before the 2 HOFers were acquired, therefore, excluding him as a coach who was jumping on a bandwagon.

Didn't realize that you were making an argument about needing talent to win, which is also very true in this league. Take away KG/Ray from Doc, and the Cs are losing. Take away MJ/Pippen/Shaq/Kobe/Gasol and Phil probably doesn't have titles. You could literally say this about each coach that's ever won a title. You can't bring knives to a gunfight and expect to come out victorious, no matter how great of a coach you are.

Don't get me wrong though. I'm not taking away from Phil's accomplishments. Coaching 3 3peats is something that we might not ever see again. PJ's ability to mesh problematic egos (MJ, Rodman, Shaq, Kobe) into a team concept is unmatched.

See all Im saying is for example.
A race car driver, he can be the best race car driver in the world, but if his car is under powered then guess what he's going to lose every race, but take that driver and put him in a car that has the same H.P as the other cars and he will win the race, if he doesnt place or win then he shouldnt even be driving, but if he dominates the circuit and wins over and over again, your not going to sit there and call him lucky. He knows how to drive, he knows how to make his moves at the right time, when to roll into the pit stop and how to handle the corners and how to tune his supsension and his engine etc.

Now the same goes with Doc and Phil and Red as well as other coaches. You can put the talent in front of them but if they dont know how to coach then they wont be successfull.
In your case you brought up Doc in Orlando, ya he didnt have the talent like he had with the Big three yet he still had decent talent, yet he lost even in Boston.

But when you came in a gave him the needed talent, HE STEPPED up and did his job as any good coach would. So when people discredit Phil or claim he had the talent and thats why he was so successful and he was lucky, they always overlook the fact that he had to make that team work. he knew how to sync everybody together and build a chemistry NOT ONCE but Three times with both teams in three three peats and in two decades as well as a title this year. He knew how to check the egos of his players for year and years (Rodman) (Shaq Kobe) THATS HARD TO DO.
The guy has a 51 series winning record, as well as ten titles, and other records that porbably wont be broken for a long time to come, thats not a joke and its defiantly not luck.

[ocker]

Tony,

Doc was with the team and helped develop the younger players, before getting the title. Whilst Phil would just be jumping to a team that is already set to win a championship.

Yea like kobe, pre-championship inconsistent lamar, kwame, luke, crittenton, heart transplant turiaf, peanut butter ankle mihm, spaceman radman, and machine. This is what champions are made of.

Who at all mentioned Kobe? This is a Phil Jackson Thread.

[eloper]

Phil ready to hop on another bandwagon to a title?

No way!

Let me ask you something, could the samething be said about Doc then. I mean he had a lot of losing seasons for how many years? And why didnt he win a title until he team was stalked with two additional H.O.F.

Except no one here thinks Doc is some all time great coach for winning with a bunch of Hall of Famers...

No one is saying a coach should win without talent, the point with Jackson is he never goes through any struggles. He hops onto teams that are primed for championship runs, and coaches them to those runs. To me, that's totally different than a guy like Doc who coached a young Celtics team and went through struggles in order to eventually win a championship. A lot of coaches can win with hall of fame talent, perhaps Phil is even the best at it, but that's only half the battle coaching wise to me, and Phil has totally avoided the other half.

Hell, it wouldn't shock me to see Phil jump on the LeBron train and start another dynasty there.

[MyInsatiableOne]

Sure, Phil could do that...although that roster would be, by far, the worst front-runner team he'd ever have jumped to...