RealGM

I originally posted this as the last post on page 1 of the thread titled
"Starting in Orlando or San Antonio versus backing up Perk";
however, no one commented on this specific trade
so I am posting it as it's own thread.

So, what's wrong with overpaying Sheed (or Antonio McDyess) for two years?
to get either one to come to Boston for $7 million per year versus
a mid-level of around $5.8 million plus 8% for $6.25 million in year 2.

This would leave the Celtics with the full MLE to offer Grant Hill.

Here is a 3 way that I think makes sense for all teams.

Now, with Detroit unfortunately landing Ben Gordon in free agency,
the ability to send them Tony Allen or J. R. Giddens as a backup to Rip Hamilton is poof.

However, they would still take picks, cash or a SUITABLE player,
especially if they lose Antonio McDyess (and possibly may be shopping Rip Hamilton).
In any event, Ben Gordon can be paired with Rodney Stuckey where
Stuckey guards the SG and Gordon guards the PG, if necessary.


Detroit Signs & Trades Rasheed Wallace (or McDyess) to Boston for 2 years at $7 Million Per Year

Boston Sends Detroit Brian Scalabrine
Boston Sends Memphis Tony Allen & Gabe Pruitt (Giddens can be substituted for Tony Allen)

Memphis Sends Boston 2009 #36 Pick Sam Young
Memphis Sends Detroit 2011 Second Round Pick (Top 55 Protected to Houston)

Detroit Depth Chart (12 Players plus need one more FA)

C: Kwame Brown / Jason Maxiell
PF: Charlie Villanueva / Brian Scalabrine
SF: Tayshawn Prince / 2009 #15 Pick Austin Daye / 2009 #35 Pick DaJuan Summers
SG: Rip Hamilton / Ben Gordon / Aaron Affalo
PG: Rodney Stuckey / Will Bynum

Boston Depth Chart (12 players plus need a FA mobile PF and FA full sized Wing)

C: Kendrick Perkins / Rasheed Wallace / Glen Davis
PF: Kevin Garnett / Rasheed Wallace / Glen Davis
SF: Paul Pierce / Bill Walker / 2009 #36 Pick Sam Young
SG: Ray Allen / J. R. Giddens
PG: Rajon Rondo / Eddie House / Lester Hudson

That's only 12 players, the Celtics have the full MLE and LLE to pick up a mobile PF and
full sized Wing (Grant Hill for the full MLE could do both).

Memphis Depth Chart (13 players plus probably need another FA PG)

C: Marc Gasol / Hasheem Thabeet / Hamed Haddadi
PF: Zach Randolph / Hakeem Warrick (RFA) / Darrell Arthur
SF: Rudy Gay / Marko Jaric / 2009 #27 Pick DeMarre Carroll
SG: OJ Mayo / Tony Allen
PG: Mike Conley / Gabe Pruitt

Detroit, who only has one PF with now,
gets Brian Scalabrine and a 2011 2nd Round pick from Memphis for giving Rasheed a S&T.

Memphis gets a outstanding defensive SG (Tony) and outstanding defensive PG (Pruitt)
in exchange for their 2009 #36 Pick and 2011 Second Round Pick.

The Celtics get Rasheed Wallace and 2009 #36 Pick Sam Young
in exchange for Brian Scalabrine, Tony Allen and Gabe Pruitt.

It seems fair to all parties. What say you?
Giddens can be substituted for Tony Allen (I'd rather keep Giddens, I think)
and Antonio McDyess can be substituted for Rasheed Wallace.

This leaves the Celtics with the full MLE to offer Grant Hill.

Jammer,

You have to send salaries back to Detroit within 125% of Wallace's $7.0 million which is about $5.6 million if Detroit is over the cap. If Detroit is under the cap they are not going to use up that space on Brian Scalabrine.

Memphis is not going to use up their cap space on TA & Pruitt. Ainge already tried this idea.

Celts17Pride wrote:Jammer,

You have to send salaries back to Detroit within 125% of Wallace's $7.0 million which is about $5.6 million if Detroit is over the cap. If Detroit is under the cap they are not going to use up that space on Brian Scalabrine.

Memphis is not going to use up their cap space on TA & Pruitt. Ainge already tried this idea.

That's not true. You can't take in more than 125% +/- 100k of what you send out, right?
Like you said.

The way this is structured, Memphis, whose depth chart has 1 PG and 1 SG right now
(meaning they have to add someone to those positions anyway,
Tony Allen and Pruitt fill the bill, it still leaves Memphis thin with just 4 guards after the trade)
at the cost of Memphis 2009 #36 pick and 2011 2nd Round Pick for Tony Allen & Pruitt.

I think Memphis does that, the trade Ainge tried to pull off had
Memphis getting Tony Allen + Pruitt + Scalabrine and sending Boston
the 2009 #36 pick AND CASH (could have been as much as $3 Million).

This trade doesn't give Memphis Scalabrine (they don't need another PF),
and Memphis has to add some guards anyway to total the required 13 players.

Detroit ends up with a second PF on their roster (behind Charlie Villanueva)
and a 2011 Second Round Pick From Memphis.

This is WIN WIN WIN for everyone. Like I said, you have to sell, which can
mean simply explaining it.

I don't see what's not to like for ALL parties.

Look at the depth charts (above) after the trade goes thru.

Memphis doesn't want Tony Allen & Pruitt and Detroit doesn't want Scalabrine. Memphis is about $10 million under the cap and they are not going to cut into that for TA & Pruitt. The same with Detroit, what ever they are under now after their signings they are not going to use their cap space up on BRIAN SCALABRINE.

Detroit is about $3-$4 million under the cap and they can go get more free agents and they are going to give that up for Brian Scalabrine. I don't think so.

Celts17Pride wrote:Memphis doesn't want Tony Allen & Pruitt and Detroit doesn't want Scalabrine. Memphis is about $10 million under the cap and they are not going to cut into that for TA & Pruitt. The same with Detroit, what ever they are under now after their signings they are not going to use their cap space up on BRIAN SCALABRINE.

They used their cap space on Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva.

They might have $2 million left, since you have to add salaries for phantom players
assuming you have a full roster of 13, even though you may have only
10 under contract right now.

If Detroit starts Ben Gordon's 5 year $55 million contract off at around $9 million
in Year 1, I think they can add Scalabrine (they need another PF),
they get a future 2nd Round Pick from Memphis,
and then they add vet minimum players to total 13.

Look at the roster's again. I think you're forgetting Detroit and Memphis' holes.

Detroit Depth Chart (12 Players plus need to sign one more FA)

C: Kwame Brown / Jason Maxiell
PF: Charlie Villanueva / Brian Scalabrine
SF: Tayshawn Prince / 2009 #15 Pick Austin Daye / 2009 #35 Pick DaJuan Summers
SG: Rip Hamilton / Ben Gordon / Aaron Affalo
PG: Rodney Stuckey / Will Bynum

Boston Depth Chart (12 players plus should sign a FA mobile PF and FA full sized Wing)

C: Kendrick Perkins / Rasheed Wallace / Glen Davis
PF: Kevin Garnett / Rasheed Wallace / Glen Davis
SF: Paul Pierce / Bill Walker / 2009 #36 Pick Sam Young
SG: Ray Allen / J. R. Giddens
PG: Rajon Rondo / Eddie House / Lester Hudson

That's only 12 players, the Celtics have the full MLE and LLE to pick up a mobile PF and
full sized Wing (Grant Hill for the full MLE could do both).

Memphis Depth Chart (13 players plus should sign another FA PG probably)

C: Marc Gasol / Hasheem Thabeet / Hamed Haddadi
PF: Zach Randolph / Hakeem Warrick (RFA) / Darrell Arthur
SF: Rudy Gay / Marko Jaric / 2009 #27 Pick DeMarre Carroll
SG: OJ Mayo / Tony Allen
PG: Mike Conley / Gabe Pruitt

Neither Memphis or Detroit is tying up any cap space of significance.
Scalabrine was the hangup in the previous deal with Memphis
since at the time they had Darko, Darrell Arthur and Hakim Warrick at PF
(plus Marc Gasol can play PF as well).

Go put this in the Detroit & Memphis forums and see what kind of response you get.

Celts17Pride wrote:Go put this in the Detroit & Memphis forums and see what kind of response you get.

I just posted this idea in the Memphis and Detroit forums.

We'll see if I get stoned like you suggest.

Live and learn.

At least the stones can't hit me on the internet.

You should never just completely shut down any trade idea (unless it's something stupid - LeBron for Scal... maybe a little extreme but you get the idea) because we know there are GM's in this league that are flat out terrible. Memphis happens to have one of those GM's. Crazier things have happened.

no. no. Detroit has no reason to help us and take on scal's salary.

The initial fan response, after like 5 minutes, from Detroit (4 posters) is that
Jason Maxiel, at 6' 5", is more like a PF than a center,
and they could really use another Center behind Kwame Brown.

They have Villanueva and Maxiell covering PF, they feel.
They would rather not use Maxiell at center, so,
Scal does nothing for them.

Apparently the 2011 2nd Round Pick isn't enough incentive.

Detroit seems to need a center or two most, maybe a backup PG second.

Looks like the idea is getting laughed out of town as expected.

No one wants to take on our marginal players just to do us a favor and let us use more than the MLE, even if they get thrown a bone or 2nd round pick.

The Detroit board also implied that they will renounce Rasheed's rights in order to sign Villaneuva/Gordon, which makes sense, come to think of it.

All these sign and trade ideas are predicated on teams doing us a favor - "here, we want to sign your FA but don't have the cap space - if you help us out you can have these marginal players you don't necessarily want."

Honestly, I suppose some team out there could use TA on their bench for a year. But at best, I think they'd be neutral on the idea.

Teams want to add expirings in order to shed salary - these ideas involve a team adding the expirings just so they can lose them again after a year, gaining nothing, and still needing to pay the additional salary.

In theory a team could add them just so they could trade them at the deadline - but I don't think many teams are thinking that way, like they are that eager to spend and have money burning holes in their owners pockets.

The thing that surprised me the most
was not the Detroit response (13 responses, NONE in favor, 9 solidly against, 4 changed subject),
but the 2 (only 2) Memphis responses.

Despite only having two true guards on their roster (OJ Mayo and Mike Conley),
and despite having only 12 guys if they sign all 3 draft picks,
they were not interested in Tony Allen or Gabe Pruitt.

In order to sign Gordon and CV DET has to renounce Wallace to get enough under the cap, right? And with that they can not sign Sheed for 7 million per year...

thebirdman wrote:In order to sign Gordon and CV DET has to renounce Wallace to get enough under the cap, right? And with that they can not sign Sheed for 7 million per year...

Actually, if they had all these guys in a room, S&T Sheed (getting him off their books, but
bring in Brian Scalabrine),
started Gordon off around $9 million in Year 1 of his 5 Year $55 million contract,
I think it works.

But from the Detroit response, it ain't happening.

Again, what really surprised me, and ChakDaddy has been saying all along,
is that Tony and Pruitt and even Giddens are not highly regarded around the league.

I was expecting Memphis to be tickled pink, because I thought
Tony would be just what they needed off their bench.

Jammer wrote:The thing that surprised me the most
was not the Detroit response (13 responses, NONE in favor, 9 solidly against, 4 changed subject),
but the 2 (only 2) Memphis responses.

Despite only having two true guards on their roster (OJ Mayo and Mike Conley),
and despite having only 12 guys if they sign all 3 draft picks,
they were not interested in Tony Allen or Gabe Pruitt.

maybe because tony allen is so bad he's neg value even with 1 year deal, and pruitt has maybe second round value, so they cancel out, lol

Darth, I should have read your post before my post.

We have similar idea. But since Detroit wants Big Baby, we could sign and trade him along with Scal and Tony Allen and Walker or Giddens and get Rasheed and McDyess via sign and trade back. Or as I said in my thread trade Scal and Big Baby for Rasheed and then use MLE to sign McDyess and Tyrone Lue or Hill etc.

We would preserve MLE so that we can fill out bench to keep pace with San Antonio (still has MLE) and Lakers (which will resign Odom)