Scalabrine and TA

Dirty Water · Post #1 » by **Dirty Water** » Wed Jul 8, 2009 2:51 am

What's with the love this board has for lumping these two guys in a trade and expecting greatness in return? Yes, I understand they are both expirings, but they are stupid contracts. Everyone has mid-low level expirings like them every year. Why are people so insistent on this board that there is some trade value in these players? Maybe if we throw in a draft pick, but I think the time has come for Danny to start holding onto some of these picks and looking towards the future.

Let's get a grip on reality here.
Value to other teams on a scale of 1-10
Tony Allen = 2
Brian Scalabrine = -3

Unless we can throw them in as filler on a larger deal, I think they are here to stay.
TONY CANNOT BE TRADED, unless its part of a much larger deal where someone from our core is on the way out... with Sheed signed Danny is obviously in win now mode and no trade is imminent. The fact of the matter is the guy is most likely going to rot at the end of the bench and be gone by next year. Who cares? He's proven 2 things in the NBA - 1)he's injury prone. 2) he has the lowest BBIQ in the league.

Scalabrine could be worth something to this team tho. He proved he can play pretty decently and had a good series against the Magic in my opinion. If Powe is gone I think we are gonna really need Scal now that we locked up all our MLE money into Sheed and possibly Hill. Remember when we signed this guy? 5 years or something? Well the contract will finally be up, so lets just ride the Veal train enjoy his final year in Boston and maybe he can hit a clutch 3 or take a key flop somewhere down the line and we can all be happy.

CelticFaninLBC · Post #2 » by **CelticFaninLBC** » Wed Jul 8, 2009 2:55 am

If traded, they'll bring someone like Jared Jeffries. Add House to TA and Scals and they can get a little more than Jeffries...

MaxwellSmart · Post #3 » by **MaxwellSmart** » Wed Jul 8, 2009 2:58 am

They are EXPIRING contracts that could be used at the deadline---teams going nowhere and wanting to dump LONGER contracts MIGHT trade for both these guys....but probably not til then.

Post #4 » by **ParticleMan** » Wed Jul 8, 2009 3:01 am

I agree, nobody is going to take our trash and give us back kirk hinrich or something. that's just stupid.

as is the idea that we should sign and trade BBD.

expiring deals get more value at the deadline because teams have to pay less of the deadwood salary, plus everyone thinks they're a contender now but by the trade deadline reality sets in for a lot of teams and they realize that they need to go a different direction.

So we should hold these guys until the deadline, and see who comes on the market.

Post #5 » by **sully00** » Wed Jul 8, 2009 3:12 am

While you obviously know more than everyone else including Danny Ainge the reality is that teams are making decisions based more on the money than the basketball even if it is for basketball reasons.

It is going to be almost impossible to move multi year deals on mid level players for anything but a dump this season. Do you really think the Kings want Andres Nocioni on their books now or for the next 4 years? I am not sure I would want him either but if you called I think the Kings would listen. Leandro Barbosa is another player that may well be given away because nobody will take back his money.

Sure it may take adding a young player or a 1st round draft pick but having an expiring contract and willing to take on a multi year deal is going to matter as much or more as the talent swap.

The Rondo Show · Post #6 » by **The Rondo Show** » Wed Jul 8, 2009 3:24 am

Ben Wallace and Sasha Pavlovic's expiring contracts returned a center who is coming off an 18-8 season and is an expiring contract himself. The Suns didn't even get out from under a multi year contract; they just saved a few millions dumping Shaq for slightly cheaper expiring contracts/expiring contracts that are willing to take a buy out. It's pretty clear that teams don't make decisions strictly based on whether it improves their team.

The NBA has salary dumping trades all the time and Danny is in a good position to pickup a GREAT bench piece in that $7Mish range with the expirings he has. Tony Allen and Scal don't really have any/much value...but their expiring contracts do to cheap owners like Sarver among others just looking to save some money.

Barbosa is the guy I'm really hoping for.

Dirty Water · Post #7 » by **Dirty Water** » Wed Jul 8, 2009 3:30 am

The Rondo Show wrote:Ben Wallace and Sasha Pavlovic's expiring contracts returned a center who is coming off an 18-8 season and is an expiring contract himself.

Ben Wallace is a proven player who has won multiple awards in this league. His contract is much bigger and is more valuable than anything we have. Tony Allen and Brian Scalabrine are scrub players with scrub expirings. If teams REALLY need epxirings, they will not look at the Boston Celtics. There are plenty of better trading partners for teams looking to unload a premiere player.

GreenMachine · Post #8 » by **GreenMachine** » Wed Jul 8, 2009 3:38 am

ParticleMan wrote:I agree, nobody is going to take our trash and give us back kirk hinrich or something. that's just stupid.

It happens EVERY YEAR at the deadline. At that point most of their salary has been paid for the year, and teams wanting to dump longer term deals will and do make that trade. Please don't call people stupid... particularly when You are wrong.

The Rondo Show · Post #9 » by **The Rondo Show** » Wed Jul 8, 2009 3:38 am

Ghost of the Garden wrote:
The Rondo Show wrote:Ben Wallace and Sasha Pavlovic's expiring contracts returned a center who is coming off an 18-8 season and is an expiring contract himself.

Ben Wallace is a proven player who has won multiple awards in this league. His contract is much bigger and is more valuable than anything we have. Tony Allen and Brian Scalabrine are scrub players with scrub expirings. If teams REALLY need epxirings, they will not look at the Boston Celtics. There are plenty of better trading partners for teams looking to unload a premiere player.

Ben Wallace sucks now. What he did 5 years ago is really irrelevent. That would be like me trying to argue Marbury has significant value based on what he did years ago.

That deal was done purely for financial reasons. The Suns know Ben Wallace is washed up and they didn't deal for him because they are trying to contend for a title; they traded for him because Sarver wanted to save some money.

I don't know where you got this premiere player stuff. I haven't seen anyone who has suggested the Celtics are going to get a superstar or premiere player for Scal/TA. The names I've seen floated out there are slightly overpaid bench players on teams looking to save money like Barbosa/Nocioni/Posey/etc.

Fencer reregistered · Post #10 » by **Fencer reregistered** » Wed Jul 8, 2009 3:41 am

The Suns have reason to hope Wallace will retire and save them a LOT of money.

sox839 · Post #11 » by **sox839** » Wed Jul 8, 2009 3:41 am

I would most definitely trade off tony allen well before scal. Tony allen has had how many years now to show us something. He is overrated highly and doesn't listen to the coaches. Scal is what he is, he will run headfirst into a brick wall if the coaches tell him to. Tony should be dumped for a second rounder.

Jimmy103 · Post #12 » by **Jimmy103** » Wed Jul 8, 2009 3:53 am

They would give a team a potential $7.4 mill of cap relief for next off season. They definitely have value.

Papa Irish31 · Post #13 » by **Papa Irish31** » Wed Jul 8, 2009 4:12 am

Fencer reregistered wrote:The Suns have reason to hope Wallace will retire and save them a LOT of money.

haha what reason do they have to believe that wallace would retire and decline to receive the 14 mil that is guaranteed to him if he just shows up next year, that is highly unlikely

i think that you fail to see it is the contracts of tony and scal that are valuable NOT the actual players, and if we wait to the trade deadline trading half a year of tony and scal's contract for 3 and a half to four and a half of a player that is slightly overpaid and on an underachieving team or a team that doesnt see him as a guy in there future than those contracts could possibly net us a guy like nocioni, posey, stephen jackson, corey magette, ryan gomes, or travis outlaw

do you see now? payment of a half of year for of two guys that wont help them get to the playoffs or win in the playoffs, better than payment of 4 years for a role player that is going to be useless or pushed out of the lineup by the time there team is anywhere near competing

Golabki · Post #14 » by **Golabki** » Wed Jul 8, 2009 4:16 am

sox839 wrote:Scal is what he is, he will run headfirst into a brick wall if the coaches tell him to.

It's odd the coaches haven't told him to get himself in shape or learn to rebound a basketball. Bad coaching I suppose.

As a celtic Tony Allen, a SG, has more rebounds/minute than Scal, a supposed PF.

Golabki · Post #15 » by **Golabki** » Wed Jul 8, 2009 4:16 am

sox839 wrote:Scal is what he is, he will run headfirst into a brick wall if the coaches tell him to.

It's odd the coaches haven't told him to get himself in shape or learn to rebound a basketball. Bad coaching I suppose.

As a celtic Tony Allen, a SG, has more rebounds/minute than Scal, a supposed PF.

CelticFaninLBC · Post #16 » by **CelticFaninLBC** » Wed Jul 8, 2009 4:20 am

sully00 wrote:While you obviously know more than everyone else including Danny Ainge the reality is that teams are making decisions based more on the money than the basketball even if it is for basketball reasons.

It is going to be almost impossible to move multi year deals on mid level players for anything but a dump this season. Do you really think the Kings want Andres Nocioni on their books now or for the next 4 years? I am not sure I would want him either but if you called I think the Kings would listen. Leandro Barbosa is another player that may well be given away because nobody will take back his money.

Sure it may take adding a young player or a 1st round draft pick but having an expiring contract and willing to take on a multi year deal is going to matter as much or more as the talent swap.

Boston wants neither due to the length of their contracts. Jeffries is more realistic.

Dirty Water · Post #17 » by **Dirty Water** » Wed Jul 8, 2009 4:30 am

The Rondo Show wrote:
Ghost of the Garden wrote:
The Rondo Show wrote:Ben Wallace and Sasha Pavlovic's expiring contracts returned a center who is coming off an 18-8 season and is an expiring contract himself.

Ben Wallace is a proven player who has won multiple awards in this league. His contract is much bigger and is more valuable than anything we have. Tony Allen and Brian Scalabrine are scrub players with scrub expirings. If teams REALLY need epxirings, they will not look at the Boston Celtics. There are plenty of better trading partners for teams looking to unload a premiere player.
Ben Wallace sucks now. What he did 5 years ago is really irrelevent. That would be like me trying to argue Marbury has significant value based on what he did years ago.

That deal was done purely for financial reasons. The Suns know Ben Wallace is washed up and they didn't deal for him because they are trying to contend for a title; they traded for him because Sarver wanted to save some money.

I don't know where you got this premiere player stuff. I haven't seen anyone who has suggested the Celtics are going to get a superstar or premiere player for Scal/TA. The names I've seen floated out there are slightly overpaid bench players on teams looking to save money like Barbosa/Nocioni/Posey/etc.

You're acting like Ben Wallace is Jerome James useless. Last I checked, he played a decent amount of minutes at the 4/5 and even started for a while. Who knows, he could help out the Suns. Seems like an athletic big man who can play defense would be ideal for them.

The Rondo Show · Post #18 » by **The Rondo Show** » Wed Jul 8, 2009 4:48 am

Ghost of the Garden wrote:You're acting like Ben Wallace is Jerome James useless. Last I checked, he played a decent amount of minutes at the 4/5 and even started for a while. Who knows, he could help out the Suns. Seems like an athletic big man who can play defense would be ideal for them.

I did make Wallace sound worse than he is, but his basketball talents were not what was important to Phoenix. Ben Wallace is completely atrocious offensively and no longer makes up for that with elite defense and rebounding. He's still a pretty solid rebounder and defender, but his awards from years ago really mean **** at this point. He's not that player anymore, he's a decent bench player and that's it. If that deal was about how good Ben Wallace is, Phoenix would've kept Shaq and never made it because he is way better than Wallace is.

That deal was all about saving money. I'm sure Phoenix is PRAYING that Wallace will retire and they won't have to pay him what he's due for this year. Wallace may be more useful than Scalabrine or Tony Allen, but the bigger point is he's nowhere near as good as Shaq yet he returned Shaq. Why? Because while we are lucky enough to have an owner who is willing to spend and go into luxury tax territory, there are a lot of franchises out there who aren't. Until those cheap owners are gone from the game, and they probably never will be, salary dumps will continue to happen.

We can't expect a premiere player/superstar for TA/Scal's expirings, but I really haven't seen anyone suggest that and don't know where you got it. An expensive bench player like Barbosa/Nocioni/Posey/etc. is definitely in the realm of possibilities, and that's what I've seen people suggesting we trade TA/Scal for, not a premiere player.

GuyClinch · Post #19 » by **GuyClinch** » Wed Jul 8, 2009 1:37 pm

As a celtic Tony Allen, a SG, has more rebounds/minute than Scal, a supposed PF.

Shush. don't bring facts into this discussion. Don't you know that TA doesn't have any basketball sense? So unlike Scalabrine he never learned that camping out at the three point line is great and getting rebounds is bad. BBIQ man.. Not to mention intangibles. Getting a rebound is way to tangible for Scalabrine to be wasting his time doing..

Pete

theman · Post #20 » by **theman** » Wed Jul 8, 2009 6:55 pm

ParticleMan wrote:I agree, nobody is going to take our trash and give us back kirk hinrich or something. that's just stupid.

as is the idea that we should sign and trade BBD.

expiring deals get more value at the deadline because teams have to pay less of the deadwood salary, plus everyone thinks they're a contender now but by the trade deadline reality sets in for a lot of teams and they realize that they need to go a different direction.

So we should hold these guys until the deadline, and see who comes on the market.

Not the Knicks.