Ainge comfortable with Walker, Giddens

Post #1 » by **ParticleMan** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:49 pm

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball ... t_minutes/

I think Ainge saw these guys do the things they were trying to work on in SL, even if it wasn't necessarily to show off their best skill set.

We could just go with what we have at the 2/3 spot for now, and revisit the issue at the trade deadline with all our expirings.

Also, our LLE might be better spent on a vet PG backup for Rondo. I'm not terribly comfortable with just Pruitt, and I think the House at PG experiment has failed.

cfan79 · Post #2 » by **cfan79** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:03 pm

Ainge is just trying to not look too desperate. Everyone knows that he really is though. I'd be very surprised if we don't sign or trade for a small forward. He saw what happened last season. KG got injured and Paul and Ray looked like guys walking through the desert searching for water.

avi623 · Post #3 » by **avi623** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:16 pm

He may want to see what those guys can do in training camp and preseason, but the fact remains, these guys do not look ready to play 10-15 minutes every night for a contender. Walker is closer, but Ainge needs to be looking at all options. He also will probably try to feel out the market for the guys who are out there. If he thinks he can wait until he has a better evaluation of what he has, then he should. But moving forward with just Giddens and Walker would be a mistake.

As the article also notes, the team also has to address the backup point guard situation, which is still clearly a problem.

**Kind of makes you wish we had used that 2008 first rounder on Mario Chalmers huh?

Post #4 » by **ParticleMan** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:28 pm

It's funny that everyone criticizes Doc for not playing young guys, but when we have a set of young guys who might be ready to take the next step, everyone gets scared and wants to bring in some lame two-bit vet so that we don't have to play them.

I don't know that we can evaluate anything based on SL. Historically it's a very poor judge of NBA ability. Belichick always says that guys take their biggest leap between their rookie and 2nd years. I think that's true in hoops as well, if you look at guys like Perk, BBD, Powe, etc. I think we have to see what we have in TC and pre-season to really tell.

I just don't think we should blow our wad (both in terms of salary and roster spot) on someone who's going to come in and not improve this team much. I'd rather save our chips and try to package something by the trading deadline. Maybe Walker/Giddens/Pruitt will actually get some PT which at the very least would increase their worth. And people forget we have TA but if he's healthy he is a decent SG.

Mahoney_jr · Post #5 » by **Mahoney_jr** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:36 pm

Depends on the PG we acquire. If that's an impact player with a dependable 3pt ability, I am comfortable with Walker and/or Giddens until trade deadline / end of march free agency.

We still have Tony Allen, guys.

I don't see a good wing defender available right now. Let's wait until Ainge gets better offers. Free Agency won't bring us the solution at SF.

cfan79 · Post #6 » by **cfan79** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:38 pm

ParticleMan wrote:It's funny that everyone criticizes Doc for not playing young guys, but when we have a set of young guys who might be ready to take the next step, everyone gets scared and wants to bring in some lame two-bit vet so that we don't have to play them.

I like the kids, but its a gamble giving them minutes. Do we want to take a chance they'll wet themselves in the playoffs? Besides Doc had a chance to play them last season and didn't.

Post #7 » by **ParticleMan** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:46 pm

We don't have to wait until the playoffs to evaluate our young kids.

In baseball, the first third of the season is for evaluating talent. The second third is for evaluating need (and acquiring it). The final third is for winning and making a playoff push.

The same idea applies to basketball as well imo. We need to spend some time evaluating what we have. There will be guys coming available at the deadline. If we have some decent young talent and expiring deals to package, we could pick up someone. The advantage is, by then, we'll know much better what we actually need. Maybe Pruitt is a great backup PG. Maybe Walker can handle the backup SF. Maybe Kevin Rogers can fill BBD's role if we lose him. Or maybe not. We need to give these guys a chance.

Last year Doc didn't play Walker much and didn't play Giddens at all, but both were rookies. Pruitt wasn't a rookie but still had a deer in the headlights look like he was one. This year, at least in SL Pruitt is showing some aggression, which is a good sign. And Walker and Giddens appear more serious about basketball, last year they just looked happy to be along for the ride.

I don't think Ainge should stop looking, but if we don't sign anyone else I'm not going to be too upset.

avi623 · Post #8 » by **avi623** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:03 pm

That is sort of true, but with Paul and Ray needing to play fewer minutes this year, I don't want to see them at 40 a night through the all-star break because it turns out Walker and Giddens cannot play. The evaluation needs to be made sooner than later in order to preserve out stars.

MVP16 · Post #9 » by **MVP16** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:35 pm

avi623 wrote:That is sort of true, but with Paul and Ray needing to play fewer minutes this year, I don't want to see them at 40 a night through the all-star break because it turns out Walker and Giddens cannot play. The evaluation needs to be made sooner than later in order to preserve out stars.

Last year, with TA and rookie Giddens/Walker as backups, Pierce and Ray averaged ~36/game until February when we were hit by injuries. We should be fine until the trade deadline having TA and Walker/Giddens with a year under their belt. It would be better if we could find a good veteran wing right now, but we might have a better chance of doing so at the trade deadline using our expiring contracts.

elrod enchilada · Post #10 » by **elrod enchilada** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:41 pm

I think this line was driven to some extent by Marc Spears, who likes Giddens and Walker a great deal.

In a pinch, it is not impossible that Big Baby could provide the "big 3" we lacked on occasion last year. The key is for Baby to get down to 270. At that weight he could defend most of the 3s in the league. Baby has lovely feet and a good feel for the game. (He played at 320 in the playoffs this year.) The ones he could not defend -- i.e. LeBron -- no one is defending. The super quick 3s he can hand off to a smaller wing.

But that requires Baby to drop 50 lbs and keep it off. Massive "if." Not one we can bet on.

It is obvious this is the message Doc and Danny are communicating to Baby.

At the same time a 270 Big Baby has a long and lucrative career. We will see if that can trump his desire to treat every meal like it is his last meal on earth.

Banks2Pierce · Post #11 » by **Banks2Pierce** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:52 pm

Baby at the 3 is so farfetched.

cfan79 · Post #12 » by **cfan79** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:59 pm

I doubt Baby is going to stay. He'll get a better offer somewhere else. It is possible that he could play some small forward if he did in fact stay, even if he didn't lose 50 pounds which is unlikely anyways.

bill murray has game · Post #13 » by **bill murray has game** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:34 pm

If Ainge wants to see if these guys can play he needs to hold off on a trade. Doc is not going to play them unless he has to.

cfan79 · Post #14 » by **cfan79** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:38 pm

bill murray has game wrote:If Ainge wants to see if these guys can play he needs to hold off on a trade. Doc is not going to play them unless he has to.

Paul and Ray could get in a car accident and be in full body casts and he wouldn't play them. He'd rather go with Scal whose had multiple brain concussions and Tony who may not have a brain.

GregB · Post #15 » by **GregB** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:42 pm

I think Particleman has it right. I am sure Danny is still exploring options at SF. But I am sure he will wait it out and get the BPA. Whether that is now or at the deadline. We might have a few bumps in the road. But Getting Giddens and Walker some regular season experience wouldnt the worst thing leading up to the playoffs.

Bad-Thoma · Post #16 » by **Bad-Thoma** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:54 pm

I'd rather see the youngs get force fed minutes then DA sign some crap free agent, if we can get someone legitamite so be it but in the meantime lets see what we have.

s1ickd · Post #17 » by **s1ickd** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:01 pm

i honestly think that with walker, giddens, ta, and pruitt all capable of subbing in at the 2/3 spots... ONE of them should rise to the occasion and take the minutes.

we did the same with powe and big baby and that played out very nicely. if those guys know that the backup spot is up for grabs, im pretty sure one of them will end up being servicable.

we should just spend the vet min on a pg and be done with it.

plus, if we do get a good backup PG, house is a lock for Ray allen's backup. that means we'd only need 10-12 minutes a game to rest pierce.

cisco · Post #18 » by **cisco** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:45 pm

LOL Danny is not comfortable with Giddens and Walker. That's why he tried to sign Grant Hill and then Moon.

Post #19 » by **ParticleMan** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:48 pm

cfan79 wrote:
bill murray has game wrote:If Ainge wants to see if these guys can play he needs to hold off on a trade. Doc is not going to play them unless he has to.

Paul and Ray could get in a car accident and be in full body casts and he wouldn't play them. He'd rather go with Scal whose had multiple brain concussions and Tony who may not have a brain.

lol. i think Doc plays guys when they're ready to contribute. we started 3 players under 25 last year in the playoffs. Baby played over Scal. he plays young guys, but they have to play smart and do the things that help us win.

I'd rather get a quality backup 2/3, but i just don't think the available LLE FA's are obviously better than anything we have already. So we should see what we have, and then make a decision, and hopefully someone better will come available.

Post #20 » by **ParticleMan** » Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:50 pm

cisco wrote:LOL Danny is not comfortable with Giddens and Walker. That's why he tried to sign Grant Hill and then Moon.

Hill is obviously better, than was a no-brainer at the LLE.

Moon, I don't think he tried to sign Moon. There's nothing we could offer him that Miami wouldn't match in a heartbeat. We might try a sign and trade but so far all i heard is some random speculation in the Herald. It didn't even cite a team source or anything.