Cavs fan: Is Boston really better then Cleveland and Orlano?

Witness23 · Post #1 » by **Witness23** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:11 pm

Hey, I'm a Cavs fans and I wonder around RealGm reading what fans around the league have to say about the Cavs and there additions. Check out RealCavsFans sometimes, I mostly post there.

So I was reading some posts and there seems to be this vibe going around that Boston and Orlando are the top teams in the east, with Cleveland the odd man out. Now, I know that as fans you think the best of your team and you can be a homer about them. Trust me I know, I'm like that. But the things is that fans are really taking Cleveland lightly. I'm not here to shower my team with love but I was just wondering why are the Celtics ahead of us?

The Cavs added O'Neal, Moon(most likely), and Parker. Boston added Daniels(what a deal) and Sheed. Orlando added VC, Bass, Anderson, Barnes, and Watson, but they lost Hedo, Alston, and Lee.

Boston was a very good team in the East last year, even without KG. As a fan of the game I respect Boston and dont take them lightly. They are older though and I cant for see them being able to make a strong enough push in the Eastern Conference Playoffs next year. Adding Sheed and Daniels were good moves that had to be made. I cant believe the price you guys got Marquis at. The bench needed some good players and you needed someone to stretch the floor and guard Dwight Howard. Check. In the process though you added someone with a bad attitude and showed last year that he didnt care about winning.

With him being put next to KG,Pierce, and Allen it might not be an issue. It is still a risk though. Daniels has also had a injury history and to add someone who has had multiple injuries to an injury ridden bench is also a risk. No doubt though that it makes your team much better and tougher to beat.

My main red flag is though is Boston PHYSICALLY capable of being a top seed and truly competing in the East.

Onto the Magic. This team has made some major improvements this off-season but at the same time subtracted something that made them extremely hard to beat. That being Turk. So they brought in Vince Carter who still has gas left in the tank and performs at high level. As a fan though you have to be happy , I mean he can be shut down a lot more easily then Turk. Allen and West have done it. They also brought in power forwards Bass and Anderson. Those two are tailor made for there system and should be very nice players for them. They do tend to disappear and thats something Magic might not be able to afford.

Bass is a good player but in my opinion he is not as good as people think he is. I mean he played in Dallas. A lot of decent bench players in Dallas look like they can be starters and a damn good contributor. See Antione Wright and Brandon Bass. I dont know though thats just my opinion. On to Anderson, he has a great shot and thats why he is a great fit for Orlando. His defense is not good though and would get mauled by KG.

Barnes is a player that is a little over rated because of the systems he was playing in, same with Watson.

Orlando will be a force to be reckoned with in the East but a much easier match up for teams like Boston and Cleveland. Can they get back to the Finals, or be a second round exit like Boston and Cleveland the years after they got to the finals.

Sorry this is long guys but onto Cleveland.

The addition of Shaq will make them less of a perimeter oriented team and make them a 3-headed monster. One being the inside game, one being the perimeter players, and one being Lebron James. Last year was a year to be remembered but then easily forgotten. When off-season hits you tend to forgot how good a team is and how you really did have troubles with them. I think that is what is happening with the Cavs. I mean this team added one of the best centers to ever play a game and then moved one of the NBA's best centers to the bench. Thats already impressive.

Realizing how well Shaq passes out of the post and makes 3-point shooters look great, so we went and added a 3-point and defensive specialist in Anthony Parker. He has been solid and not suffered very many injuries. He will most likely be brought to bench but could start and move Delonte to a bench role.

After Paker, we signed Moon to an offer sheet. All signs are pointing to the offer not being matched. Moon is a lot like Ariza and he will be brought off the bench and assigned to help on guys like Lewis, Allen, and Kobe and will be guard guys like Prince and Gay and so on.

We also have this guy named Lebron James. I think he makes pretty damn good.

Will Cleveland be able to win enough games to get home-court or competition be too tough for this new look team. And why is it that we are not considered a top 2 team in the East?

Some feedback would be awesome. Sorry if I come across as a homer. I'm just looking for some knowledgeable insight. I respect the Celtics and Magic greatly.

aboubata · Post #2 » by **aboubata** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:12 pm

your post is too long

Witness23 · Post #3 » by **Witness23** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:13 pm

Sorry, just skim through and read the questions I asked.

Kefa461 · Post #4 » by **Kefa461** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:19 pm

The C's will win it all and the Cavs suck no more or less then the Magic imo........

8-)

Dogen · Post #5 » by **Dogen** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:23 pm

I wouldn't take any of these teams lightly. Who's the best? Tune in next June to find out.

Post #6 » by **ParticleMan** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:23 pm

i didn't read your whole post, i think i'll just wait for the movie.

but to answer your question, i think the Cavs and C's are the 2 best teams in the EC. i'm not as afraid of ORL without Hedo. All the bench players are nice but when it comes to winning time you have to ask, who's got the go-to guys? it's obviously Lebron, and then the C's (pierce, KG, ray). DH12, VC, and Lewis just don't strike fear in my heart.

Hemingway · Post #7 » by **Hemingway** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:27 pm

I think if everyone is mostly healthy going into the playoffs my money is on the Celtics, than the Cavs than the Magic. I think you have a point in that rating the Magic above the Cavs may not be right. I still think they were something of a fluke or just a well designed team that had a gimmic, lots of 3s and a great big. I think they have made too many changes to be abl to count on the same chemistry again.

As for taking the Cav's lightly: No one takes LBJ lightly. the rest of the team minus Shaq does not scare most however. For me, I will need to see LBJ and Shaq play together before I have a real opinion on their chances.

Witness23 · Post #8 » by **Witness23** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:27 pm

Thanks guys.

Dirty Water · Post #9 » by **Dirty Water** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:36 pm

I'd say the three are about even at the top. I'm sure each team like's the moves they've made, and their chances going into the season about equally. To disagree with you post, I'm hesitant to put Orlando on such a high pedestal because they have significant changes in their lineup. Turkoglu was really the glue (no pun intended) of the style they were playing that enabled them to get past Boston and Cleveland. The addition of Vince Carter may help them overcome that loss, but sometimes certain players just don't fit on certain teams. The jury is out, we will have to wait and see. As of now, it's all speculation other than the fact of who the top three teams in the East are. Hell, I bet Miami could even challenge any one of us if they were to pick up Boozer.

NEM · Post #10 » by **NEM** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:48 pm

all i can say is, being the magic fan that i am, boston is our only real concern. no offense to the cavs, but a 37 year old shaq, who, with the suns training staff, was missing the second or first game of back to backs last season. he is just too old and slow to have any kind of effect on dwight and even if he does, we are so deep, that we can just wear teams down. cleveland still doesnt match up well with us IMO. boston presents problems because they have the 2 guys who know how to guard dwight in perk and sheed. granted dwight finally has a summer to work on his post moves so it might not be as easy to guard him next season.

my waaaaaaaaaaaay early prediction is, if everyone is healthy, cleveland loses in the second round to either boston or orlando. the ecf will go 7 and whoever has HCA will win. sorry cavs fans, i just think the shaq trade didnt help and that it actually might hurt your team. a SL of z and AV worked because z could spot up and it opened the lane for bron, but with av and shaq there, neither of which can shoot, the lane closes and it forces lebron to be a jump shooter, which i would rather him do than drive all day and get every call, even the ones where it clearly wasnt a foul

JHTruth · Post #11 » by **JHTruth** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:51 pm

As it relates to the Magic and us, Howard will have to learn to get it done against Perkins, Sheed, and KG to beat us. Thus far, he has not proven the ability to do so. I think the C's still have the edge from that perspective..

Celts17Pride · Post #12 » by **Celts17Pride** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:52 pm

If the Celtics stay healthly they will win it all.

Witness23 · Post #13 » by **Witness23** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:54 pm

ll i can say is, being the magic fan that i am, boston is our only real concern. no offense to the cavs, but a 37 year old shaq, who, with the suns training staff, was missing the second or first game of back to backs last season. he is just too old and slow to have any kind of effect on dwight and even if he does, we are so deep, that we can just wear teams down. cleveland still doesnt match up well with us IMO. boston presents problems because they have the 2 guys who know how to guard dwight in perk and sheed. granted dwight finally has a summer to work on his post moves so it might not be as easy to guard him next season.

my waaaaaaaaaaaay early prediction is, if everyone is healthy, cleveland loses in the second round to either boston or orlando. the ecf will go 7 and whoever has HCA will win. sorry cavs fans, i just think the shaq trade didnt help and that it actually might hurt your team. a SL of z and AV worked because z could spot up and it opened the lane for bron, but with av and shaq there, neither of which can shoot, the lane closes and it forces lebron to be a jump shooter, which i would rather him do than drive all day and get every call, even the ones where it clearly wasnt a foul

Just watch out. Dont get over confident in the Magic, they are not that same team as they were in last years playoffs.

RondoWallace · Post #14 » by **RondoWallace** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:03 pm

CAVS FAN::

I respect Cavs, but Shaq makes you worse, not better. Wallace lost a step or two but was still defensive juggernaut, and you guys played shut down defense.

Shaq is a better offensive player, but at 37 years old, he lets people drive on him, gets destroyed on pick and rolls, and is really a major regression for your team.

You will go from top 3 defensive team, to top 15, mark my words.

Tricky Ricky · Post #15 » by **Tricky Ricky** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:10 pm

aboubata wrote:your post is too long

Lol x2, I dont see a need for this all we have now is predictions we can let the players decide this soon

EJay33 · Post #16 » by **EJay33** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:23 pm

Good post. It was well thought out and articulated so I read the whole thing.

Are people really overlooking Cleveland? I feel like you're imagining that as a Cavs fan. It's not like everyone thinks Cleveland has no chance. Seriously.

To get a more accurate view of what people are thinking, check NBA odds. Only the LA Lakers have better odds at winning the NBA Championship right now, and when you figure that Boston and Orlando are in the East as well it pretty much means that Vegas thinks it's a coinflip between Cleveland and LA for best team in the league.

My personal opinion, it all depends on KG. KG didn't have a torn ACL or anything, just bone spurs so I'm expecting him to come back at full strength. I think healthy Boston would've won again last year and this year's version is much improved so I like the Celtics' chances.

Wallace is super talented and it is no accident that he's been to the playoffs in 13 straight seasons. He knew he didn't have a chance for the past two years and mailed it in. This is still the same guy who was the best player on a serious title contender (Portland) for years and the piece that took the Pistons from decent team to NBA champion. His emotional outbursts are a problem in terms of PR and technical fouls but ask anyone who played with him what kind of team mate he is, what kind of locker room presence he has, and what type of desire he has to win. He is a yeller and screamer, but he's not a selfish me-first stats guy who is a career loser like Stephon Marbury, for example. If you're expecting Rasheed Wallace's attitude to sabotage this Celtics team, in a locker room with rock solid leadership from KG and Ray Allen you've got another thing coming. Not gonna happen.

Your main concern was athleticism and are the Celtics still able bodied enough to compete. They are a 62-win team that didn't have KG for 25 games who just added Rasheed and Daniels. I'd say they'll be right there competing and until any of these guys drop off noticeably I'm not going to expect it to happen overnight. The added depth at the positions that KG and PP/Ray play will only help keep them fresh and even act as solid fillins if anyone has to miss time. The only guys on any of these three teams (BOS/ORL/CLE) who have dropped off noticeably are Z and Shaq, so I'd be more worried about your own team's ability to last the season in top form. Within 2-3 years this current group of Celtics will break down, I'm not expecting it to happen this year, though.

With regards to Orlando, everyone is nuts thinking that they got worse by replacing Turkoglu with Vince Carter. Prior to the playoffs everyone in the world liked Orlando as a team except for the fact that their go-to-guy was Hedo Turkoglu. I know VInce has been on the Nets for the past few years, but when is the last time anyone watched him play? He's not near LeBron's level obviously but when healthy Vince is more talented than Pierce. I expect being on a good team to rejuvenate Vince, similar to what happened with Pierce when Allen and KG joined the Celtics. That was not a lateral move and certainly not a downgrade, Vince is a legitimate NBA go-to-guy. Bass will help as well being more of a traditional power forward than Rashard (and now Tony Battie is out of the rotation, he needed to be replaced) and Barnes can replace what Lee brought offensively. The main things for them are upgrading to Vince from Hedo (I know, Hedo was great, but let's get serious it's Hedo Turkoglu and Vince Carter here) and getting Jameer back. Remember, Jameer Nelson made the all-star team.

The Cavs also improved. Z can be a liability at times if he's not scoring and rebounding but that solves that problem because Shaq doesn't share his physical limitations. Parker is a nice pickup and this team was already the best in basketball for the entire regular season before overlooking Orlando and choking in the playoffs. I another year of experience plus the addition of O'Neal to help defend more mobile big men (like Dwight) will improve this team. Should the Cavs successfully add Moon, who has the height and athleticism to match up with Rashard, who killed you guys last year; they will have plugged their two main holes. The reality is that had Orlando not gotten on their biggest role of the season Cleveland should've beaten them last year. I don't buy that Cleveland got "Exposed" or whatever, the Magic got hot and the Cavs had too much time off and were already thinking about LA. Orlando shot 62-152 (41%) on threes in the 6-game series. Cleveland addressed both of their major matchup problems with Orlando, were the better team to begin with, and having that experience or losing to an inferior team because they were looking past them last year will prevent a similar letdown this year. Cleveland still has LeBron James, too. Getting Moon or at least someone who can follow Rashard around is critical. Boston has two players now who can keep up (KG and Sheed). Cavs have nothing unless Moon joins the squad.

All three teams have a great chance. I personally think Boston has the best team with the caveat that I think KG will be back to normal. Then I think Cleveland is better than Orlando, but all three teams are excellent and if anyone gets hot like the Magic did against Cleveland last year any one of these teams can beat any of the other ones. Should be a great season and let's not forget that the Spurs and Lakers are also capable of beating any of these teams in the finals.

mcaul55 · Post #17 » by **mcaul55** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:23 pm

I believe we can all agree upon the importance on the regular season. The three of us (Cavs, Celtics, Magic) have completely separated ourselves from the rest of the East, getting that number 1 seed in the east will be HUGE.

DorfonCeltics · Post #18 » by **DorfonCeltics** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:34 pm

OP. It's funny how you talk about the "old" Celtics squad. Last time I checked Shaq was 37 and Big Z is 34. What happens if both of them are lost to injury (which is very possible)? How are the Cavs expected to compete with the front lines of Boston and Orlando with just Varejao and Hickson?

Witness23 · Post #19 » by **Witness23** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:41 pm

OP. It's funny how you talk about the "old" Celtics squad. Last time I checked Shaq was 37 and Big Z is 34. What happens if both of them are lost to injury (which is very possible)? How are the Cavs expected to compete with the front lines of Boston and Orlando with just Varejao and Hickson?

Well look at the rest of our contributors were a young team. All of the Celtics "key" players are up there in age. With Z and Shaq, yes they are older but they have not had too many injury problems in the past and there minutes and games played will be monitored closely.

Even if there is a drop off in both of there contributions we have the guys around them to make up for it. Mo and Delonte did it well last year. I mean Shaq is going to be a go-to guy but our championship hopes do not lie on him, they lie on Mo and West.

GodMoney great post.

EJay33 · Post #20 » by **EJay33** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:45 pm

Shaq and Z haven't had too many injury problems in the past? Are we talking about the same Shaq and Z?