Overrated GM's

[John Locke]

I've been thinking about the love the media has for some GM's in this league.
For years John Paxon was said to be a very good GM. He was said to be a very good drafter. However he built his team with high draft picks - but nothing really blossomed. He has made some questionable picks, especially the Tyrus Thomas pick. At the end of the day most of his draft picks have not panned out like advertised. Kirk Hinrich is not the franchise PG, Luol Deng got injured (not blaming Paxon on that one!), Ben Gordon is only a volume shooter and contributes little to the team, Tyrus Thomas is an athletic freak but doesn't seem to be able to put it together. Now he made some shrewed picks in Duhon and Sefolosha and Derrick Rose seems to be the real deal. The Noah pick was in my mind a good one, I like Noah as an energy guy and he knows how to win.
But however...He gave HORRIBLE deals to Ben Wallace and Nocioni. I guess the Deng deal isn't good, but he might recover. He basicly ruined the Bulls' near future with the Wallace contract.
And it has been reported that he backed down from a Kobe Bryant trade because of Luol Deng. But no one can really know.

Another thing concerning Paxon is his choice of coaches.

John Paxon is not the worst GM in the league, far from it. But he was hailed as one of the best by a lot of people in the media. He has made some horrible decisions and has never gotten the Bulls out of the funk they seem to be stuck in. I have a lot of respect for the Chicago Bulls organization and I hope they will have a team that can contend. But it doesn't seem like it will happen with Paxon at the helm.

Another overrated GM is Joe Dumars. First of all, his signings this summer were terrible. He overpaid for guys that have never proven to be anything but me-first players.
But Dumars got a championship and that is a great feat. I give him a lot of credit for that. But Dumars had a chance to ensure the Pistons' postion as a powerhouse, but he decided to choose Darko Milicic over Carmelo Anthony. That is one of THE worst decisions in draft history. It's right up there with Sam Bowie over Jordan - especially because Dumars could've chosen almost ANYONE behind Milicic and gotten a solid player. In the three spots after Milicic were guys who've played all star games.

Dumars also traded Chauncy for AI. A very bad trade. They say they did it for cap-space, OK fair enough. They used that capspace for Charlie V and Ben Gordon, and they overpaid for those guys. They basicly traded Billups for two guys with HORRIBLE contracts.

What's your opinion on the NBA GM's?

[John Locke]

My point is also that Danny Ainge has always gotten his share of criticism. I feel Danny is among the best GM's in the league. The Spurs are probably the best managed organization in the League, but Danny is getting there IMO.

[theman]

I agree with you on Paxon. The Bulls have had 11 lottery picks since '99, including 2 first overall picks and 7 picks that were #4 or better.

I'd also like to add Mitch Kuptcake to the list. It's LA everyone wants to play there.

[Cyclical]

Agreed on both. Dumars is such a nice guy and respected person that people forget how many bad moves he's made. Detroit still owes Ainge in a big way for facilitating the initial Portland Wallace trade.

[ParticleMan]

agree about Paxson. Dumars i think is pretyy good usually, but when you strike out so badly on a franchise-defining pick like Darko, that's an indelible stain.

i'd say right now the best GMs are in Portland, OKC, SA, and Boston

[John Locke]

I think the jury is still out on both Portland and OKC.

I think Portland needs to turn these young guys into a star player like we did. I think that the NBA is about quality - not quantity. I just think that in a short while someone in Portland will get angry because of lack of playing time or touches. Or that the team will somehow fade away like the Bulls did after Skiles' reign of terror was over.

For me Sam Presti is getting a free pass from the Media. It's very easy to build a team when you can suck so badly in such a long time. I like the team though and it is the team I follow the most after the Celtics.

Another very well managed organization is the Houston Rockets. I hope they can flip T-Mac into something.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Geoff Petrie's still in charge in Sacramento, right? He did an amazing job back in the mid 90s, but since the Webber/Bibby/Peja teams peaked, he hasn't lived up to this rep..

[campybatman]

Personally, I've soured on Dumars this year. Okay, you've the expiring contracts of R. Wallace and Iverson and do nothing with either before the trade deadline of this past season. Even more confusing, you sign two players, Gordon and Villanueva, with that free money as oppose to using it to tempt Boozer away from Utah. Boozer's an All-Star, they aren't... Not to mention, both players were in a contract year. With that said, I would be wary of Villanueva's longterm value. Moreover, Gordon is a solid player but he's an unnecessary addition when your team already has Hamilton signed longterm. So is Gordon an overpaid backup? I don't understand what Dumars' logic is here. I think their signings take them out of the big 2010 free agent hunt.

Perhaps, Dumars could've focused some attention on signing a worthy of starting free agent point guard and move Stuckey to shooting guard, trade Hamilton to Dallas for Dampier, for example, and sign Boozer if he'd opted out instead.

Dampier's thirty-four, but his contract is for two years as oppose to Hamilton's four.


4 - Boozer
3 - Prince
5 - Dampier
1 - Felton?
2 - Stuckey

[Fencer reregistered]

I agree with the consensus on Dumars, if the consensus is:

* He did a very good job for years (i.e., tremendous other than the painful Darko miss)
* He's had a ghastly streak recently

[campybatman]

I'm of the opinion that Dumars could be fired sooner than later. That's my gut... I mean I don't need to wait until next season's over. Dumars took some costly missteps this off-season, and Detroit might not even make the playoffs. Right now, the Pistons aren't better than most of the teams I see qualifying for the playoffs next season.

Boston
Orlando
Cleveland
Chicago
Washington
Toronto
Atlanta
Indiana

Philadelphia
Charlotte
Miami
Detroit

[Qt525i]

Mitch Kupchak?

I think there's some hateration in that opinion.
He's made his fair share of mistakes: Walton's contract, Vujacic's contract, and the value of Bynum's extension..

However, how can you argue with:

1. Pau Gasol for Marc Gasol, Javaris Crittenton, Aaron McKie, Kwame Brown, and picks
2. Trevor Ariza for Brian Cook and Maurice Evans
3. Quickly replacing Ariza with Artest. Artest himself admits that he was leaning towards Cleveland, but L.A. was more aggressive.
4. Resigning Odom for way less that they even initially thought.
5. Doing everything all under heavy fire from crazy L.A. fans and under Kobe's tirades.

It's really not as easy as "Everyone just wants to come to L.A., "theman"
Yeah, response?

[Qt525i]

Sorry, 1 more thought.
Danny Ferry really hasn't done anything for Lebron.

What were his best moves?

Mo Williams? No one even thought he'd play as well as he has been in Cleveland.
That one fell into their lap. It was a rebuilding Miami or King James.

Resigning Varejao? An aging Shaq? Your 2-guards all being undersized?

He belongs on the list.

I think the best GMs in no particular order are in San Antonio, Boston, Los Angeles, Oklahoma City, and Portland.

I like what Atlanta has been doing as well. The Magic had a good offseason.

[count55]

I think Brian Colangelo in Toronto is starting to look like one of those GM's that confuses activity with accomplishment.

[TonyMontana]

Mitch Kupchak?

I think there's some hateration in that opinion.
He's made his fair share of mistakes: Walton's contract, Vujacic's contract, and the value of Bynum's extension..

Bynum ............ ehhhhhhh not that bad as Luke and Sasha, but they are still tradeable for a bag of chips, but overall I think he has done a good job following a great G.Ms footsteps like the Logos, but overall I think he deserves an A- .

[Banks2Pierce]

I think Brian Colangelo in Toronto is starting to look like one of those GM's that confuses activity with accomplishment.

Yes, I agree with this. Everyone was praising this guy like crazy when he brought in players like Delfino, Garbajosa, and Anthony Parker, but look at where the Raptors have been and will be for the upcoming years: mediocrity. Any gm can lead their team into mediocrity.

[Fencer reregistered]

I think Brian Colangelo in Toronto is starting to look like one of those GM's that confuses activity with accomplishment.

Like father, like son.

[Rox_Nix_Nox]

I think your gm Danny ainge takes it. just my 2cents
I'll leave now.

[Zin5]

Sam Presti imo.

He hasn't made any bad moves that I can think of off the top of my head, but all he's really done is lucked into a franchise player and made a few picks that have left them still in rebuilding mode.

In 2007, they lucked out in the lottery and picked a no-brainer at number two. He doesn't look like Pritchard who's the one who "passed on Durant" and still got a franchise player out of the draft (yes, Durant looks better now, but only time will tell if Oden reaches his potential and if Durant can avoid injury). They moved Ray Allen for the fifth pick, which ended up being Jeff Green, who I still don't think has any role with that team, and someone who can play or defend in the low post, like Hawes, would have been better. Essentially, he decided to just pick up two scoring small forwards out of the draft instead. He also let Rashard Lewis walk for a second round pick that summer. Granted, it's better to get something out of him than nothing, but I'd like to think they could've S&T'd him for another free agent that would've fit the team better.

In 2008 he picked Westbrook, who looks good, but doesn't look like he's good enough to facilitate an offense enough to play with Durant. He's best with the ball in his hands and you'd rather that ball be in Durant's hands. I think having a solid role player and future third option in Kevin Love would've been a better fit next to Durant for the next decade or so.

In 2009, I do like the moves he made in the draft considering his team, seeing as a Harden/Westbrook backcourt will look real nice together and Harden complements Durant on the wing pretty well too, but it's hard to think about how they could have an elite point guard in Rubio feeding Durant the ball for the next decade in a couple years, when Durant and the Thunder would've been ready to compete. I like the Mullens pick up though, they got him for pretty good value and I'm higher on him than a lot of others.

I also put a knock against him for not forcing that franchise to pick a better team name.

[DuckIII]

I agree with you on Paxon. The Bulls have had 11 lottery picks since '99, including 2 first overall picks and 7 picks that were #4 or better.

I'm a Bulls fan and I'm going to dispute some of this. But before I do, I'll say this: Paxson certainly achieved media golden boy status a few years ago, but that perception is outdated. He's come under fire, especially nationally, since the Tyrus Thomas draft both for that pick (trade, actually) and the perception (misplaced) that he's been unwilling to part with his guys to acquire a superstar.

Paxson is a good, but not great, GM.

As for your post, John Paxson has only been the GM since the summer of 2003. Many of those lottery picks belonged to Krause, who used them horribly. Curry, Chandler, Brand, (traded for Chandler), Crawford, Fizer and more. Paxson had nothing to do with any of those moves, as he was the team's radio color man and not a front office employee. When Paxson took over, he promptly began to blow up Krause's team, trading those guys off one after another, cutting them outright, or letting them leave in free agency.

Paxson also had the unfortunate happening of one of those high Krause picks - Jay Williams - suffering a career ending injury about a month after he took the job which prevented Pax from getting any value for him. That was a staggering blow for a brand new GM.

Regardless, within only one year, Paxson took a perenial bottom feeder and league embarrassment and turned it into a young playoff team. That is the accomplishment that got him his golden boy status. And its continued to be a playoff team in four of the 5 years since then. Paxson's "problem" is that he has not been able to get his team to take the step to conference contender. Hopefully the drafting of Rose will help change that perception.

If you look at Paxson's draft picks, relative to the other players drafted after them, they were perfectly sensible picks, even in hindsight. The one obvious exception is Thomas, which nearly every Bulls fan agrees was a mistake.

As for the argument that Paxson has had many high lottery picks, its actually a testament to his quality as a gm when you consider that he's acquired these picks while consistently fielding a playoff team. The Luol Deng pick was acquired in trade from Phoenix for the pick that became Nate Robinson. The Thomas and Noah picks were acquired in trade from New York for Eddy freakin' Curry. All three picks were acquired in trades that amount to highway robbery. Paxson also made the right pick with his most important pick, taking Derrick Rose over Michael Beasley.

As a drafter, and pick acquirer, he's done a terrific job.

Free agent signings, not so much though. In hindsight, the Wallace signing was brutal. Nocioni not much better. But here's the thing: Paxson was able to get out from under those signings very quickly and within less than two years found takers for those player in a series of moves that turned them into Brad Miller and John Salmons, who are both terrific trade acquisitions.

Paxson isn't the golden boy he was portrayed as early in his tenure, but he's still a quality NBA GM and, as a Bulls fan, I do not look forward to the day he retires, which I fear is not far off.

If you're going to discuss overrated GMs, I'd consider dropping John Paxson from the list and start talking about Bryan Colangelo.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Paxson hasn't been fired? I thought the Bulls had dumped him. He should send Rose a card and flowers every day to thank him for every day he still has a job.