Big Baby update....

MaxwellSmart · Post #1 » by **MaxwellSmart** » Tue Aug 4, 2009 4:35 am

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/celti ... estination

Sounds like Good news really---we do need Big Baby back---to bring energy and supply some needed muscle off the bench.

Avalanche · Post #2 » by **Avalanche** » Tue Aug 4, 2009 6:04 am

as long as we dont lose him for nothing im happy..

if we keep him, then great we have huge depth and talent in our front court for the regular season and in case of injury

on the other hand if we sign and trade him we should at least get something of value, and he gets extended minutes elsewhere

just dont let him go for free... though i would also like to see him stay ideally

Post #3 » by **Spin Move** » Tue Aug 4, 2009 7:12 am

We need him for depth, sheed is going to get most of the minutes at 4, there will be lots of times when we either dont need a real center or someone is in foul trouble well want someone we can count on, baby could be that guy, and maybe he has slimmed neough to play some three, he is the best left of the free bigs. plus hell be playing for a contract he has every incentive to fall in line.

Gant · Post #4 » by **Gant** » Tue Aug 4, 2009 1:08 pm

Marc Spears adds (via tweet): That a source says "4 million plus prob the danger zone" for the Celtics to match on Baby.

Post #5 » by **ParticleMan** » Tue Aug 4, 2009 4:55 pm

there's no freakin way he signs a multi-year deal for $2mil per. that guy's like Celtics spokesperson or something.

i do agree that 3.5 mil might be the benchmark as to whether or not the C's match. i've said it was $4mil all along.

Post #6 » by **sully00** » Tue Aug 4, 2009 5:32 pm

I am with you Particle, how can you give Scal 5 years and 15 mil and 2.5 mil a year to TA and then offer Davis 2 mil a season, doesn't make a lot of sense.

4mil would be a sensible cut off, that is what Bass got on the open market and even if you have to go without him for the season you can probably replace him for 4 mil a year one way or the other.

threrf23 · Post #7 » by **threrf23** » Tue Aug 4, 2009 6:59 pm

I'm not sure there should be any cutoff (teams can't offer more than the MLE right?). Young big men are valuable assets and certainly tradeable. Teams who might be interested in Baby right now, might be willing to flirt with an MLE contract but might be reluctant to bother with an offer sheet especially with other FA needs. Once his exact contract is known and their needs become clearer a few months into the season, there is potentially interest. Baby would also be a nice tradeable asset to have come the deadline, we could package him with expirings and ship him to a rebuilding team trying to dump salary. And worst case, overpaying a guy by 2 mil or so should not set us back a ton.

Celts17Pride · Post #8 » by **Celts17Pride** » Tue Aug 4, 2009 7:01 pm

sully00 wrote:I am with you Particle, how can you give Scal 5 years and 15 mil and 2.5 mil a year to TA and then offer Davis 2 mil a season, doesn't make a lot of sense.

The market changes. What happened last year or 2-3 years ago has no bearing on the market this year. Salary Cap is going down. Bad year to be a fringe free agent.

Does he deserve to make more than Marquis Daniels who will probably end up with a 2 year deal worth $4.0 million? The market has spoken.

JHTruth · Post #9 » by **JHTruth** » Tue Aug 4, 2009 7:32 pm

I don't think the Celtics need to chase Baby down. They know at what price BBD stops making sense for them. They will wait it out and see what Baby's market looks like then they will probably get him at their price anyway..

RickyDizzle · Post #10 » by **RickyDizzle** » Tue Aug 4, 2009 9:06 pm

Wiretap says teams are afraid of his weight and inability to get above the rim. It seems like to me these are obvious flaws of his, but are still outweighed by his positives.

His size keeps him grounded but also makes him hard to push around and it makes it easier for him to carve out space with that big body.

I do think its getting more and more likely that he wont get an offer that we wont match and will end up back on the team, which is what I want...

Dizzy

Gomes3PC · Post #11 » by **Gomes3PC** » Tue Aug 4, 2009 9:15 pm

When a scrub like Ryan Hollins is getting 3 years, $7MM, there is no way that Baby gets less than $3MM per year. At $3MM/3 years, I'd sign him. If it goes 4 years or $4MM, I'd probably let him walk, but it would be tough.

Post #12 » by **sully00** » Tue Aug 4, 2009 10:06 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:
sully00 wrote:I am with you Particle, how can you give Scal 5 years and 15 mil and 2.5 mil a year to TA and then offer Davis 2 mil a season, doesn't make a lot of sense.

The market changes. What happened last year or 2-3 years ago has no bearing on the market this year. Salary Cap is going down. Bad year to be a fringe free agent.

Does he deserve to make more than Marquis Daniels who will probably end up with a 2 year deal worth $4.0 million? The market has spoken.

No the market hasn't. And yes Davis is worth more than the 2 mil that Daniels is getting (so is he for that matter) but keep in mind when Daniels was in Davis situation he got the full MLE.

To be fair I have never read an article by this guy Goldman before and he had some of his facts mixed up so I have no idea how credible or not he is. Spears is a long time NBA writer who seems to have contacts with the organization as well as Davis and seems to think Boston is in the 3.5 to 4 range with Davis so it will likely get settled.

But at the moment according to this article and therefore perhaps Davis the team is publicly saying they will match up to 5 mil while only offering Davis 2 mil. Now this may have something to do with wanting to get Daniels wrapped up before they throw more money at someone else, but at some point someone is going to throw an offer sheet at Davis just to make it cost Boston some money.

JHTruth · Post #13 » by **JHTruth** » Tue Aug 4, 2009 10:21 pm

BBD is a vastly undersized PF who is of limited athletic ability. He will never be a good rebounder. He will never be a good finisher at the rim. He will always be at a disadvantage against anyone 6'9" or taller. He does not have exceptionally long arms.

Hollins may not have great numbers but he is a 7-footer. Height counts for a lot in this league. As long as he improves his jumper and leverages his footwork as much as possible BBD will have a spot in the league. Baby's earning power will always be limited due to his limitations. If the C's offer him a 3-year deal at 8-9 million that is more than fair..

GuyClinch · Post #14 » by **GuyClinch** » Tue Aug 4, 2009 10:24 pm

Why should the C's go so far above the QO when there are no other offers? <g> Ok was interested in TA. Scalabrine had interest from the Nets. BBD has had no offers. His weight, short arms and lack of height are all negatives. Some posters here are acting more like agents then rational fans..

Post #15 » by **ParticleMan** » Tue Aug 4, 2009 10:32 pm

because it's not just about next year. if he plays for the QO and ends up a UFA, we'll be in a position to have to pay him or replace him on the open market. the question is, can we lock him up long-term at a more friendly deal than we can replace him with? i'd be very happy to give him 3 yr, 9 mil. sure he has limitations but he also has some big asse(t)s.

it's the same reason why we'd prefer to sign and trade Daniels and give him more than the LLE, than have him take a 1-year LLE deal.

JHTruth · Post #16 » by **JHTruth** » Tue Aug 4, 2009 10:35 pm

Yeah I agree we need to lock him up for a few years if possible, which means more than the QO. But if him and his agent want to keep working the market then so be it. I at least hope talks are happening to get Baby locked-up to a reasonable contract.

I know Baby wants minutes but the reality is he will always be a back-up. If BBD is starting in the FC on an NBA team, it means that team is playing for the top pick. Many undersized bigs have carved out respectable careers for themselves playing back-up roles on good teams. He needs to plan out his career accordingly...

GuyClinch · Post #17 » by **GuyClinch** » Tue Aug 4, 2009 11:08 pm

because it's not just about next year. if he plays for the QO and ends up a UFA, we'll be in a position to have to pay him or replace him on the open market. the question is, can we lock him up long-term at a more friendly deal than we can replace him with? i'd be very happy to give him 3 yr, 9 mil. sure he has limitations but he also has some big asse(t)s.

I suppose. But just because he will become an UFA doesn't mean he will cost a ton more. He will play limited minutes for us, IMHO. So I don't see the great concern. The C's cant really lose.

theman · Post #18 » by **theman** » Tue Aug 4, 2009 11:37 pm

Is there are reason Danny can't offer 3 or 3.5 million and get it done now? Do the Celtics lose their ability to match if they do that? Or is it just a matter of getting him as cheap as possible?

Celts17Pride · Post #19 » by **Celts17Pride** » Wed Aug 5, 2009 12:12 am

Gomes3PC wrote:When a scrub like Ryan Hollins is getting 3 years, $7MM

When it's all said and done that's exactly what Big Baby is going to get 3 years, $7 MM or the QO. If he takes the QO he is getting bad advice because there is going to be even less money next year.

You guys are not reading the market or the fact that he is a restricted free agent.

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/celti ... estination

Davis said he’s fielded interest from several teams, including New Jersey, Charlotte, Cleveland and Detroit – although it seems far-fetched that any of those teams will offer Davis anything more attractive than the multi-year deal that has been proposed by Celtics boss Danny Ainge.

According to sources close to the situation, the Celtics brass believes that Davis will be back in Boston next season – either with a multi-year deal worth in the neighborhood of $2 million per year or for a qualifying offer in which Davis would still remain a restricted free agent after next season.

celtxman · Post #20 » by **celtxman** » Wed Aug 5, 2009 12:41 am

theman wrote:Is there are reason Danny can't offer 3 or 3.5 million and get it done now? Do the Celtics lose their ability to match if they do that? Or is it just a matter of getting him as cheap as possible?

The Celtics never lose their ability to match. There may be a few reasons that Ainge isn't tipping his hand. It is hard to know what is going on behind the scenes. Danny may be scaring away teams by guaranteeing he would match. Depending on the signing team, maybe he would rather get a player or an asset back down the line which may have something to do with the Sheldon Williams signing. If the Nets were to sign Davis, the Nets have a $3.75 million trade exception from the Vince Carter trade. That asset is tradeable and could be extremely useful down the road to get someone better than Davis. So the short-term is having Scal, Williams and maybe Swift or Mikki Moore as the backup bigs. The longer term might be to package House, Scal and the exception for Troy Murphy.... Corey Maggette....or something along those lines. Many possibilities would open up with the trade exception. Since the Celts now appear to have their best overall depth, I think they will likely keep Davis and not go for another big salary, but it isn't clear if Ainge really wants Baby or if he is posturing to get the most he can in return.