We have one of the all time great teams

Hemingway · Post #1 » by **Hemingway** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:02 am

Its 3am and I'm exhausted, but it hit me, and I wanted to share that we have one of the all time great teams. I feel pretty confident that history will prove us right in this. Years down the road this current era of great celtics teams will be remembered. We have all the elements:

A great but league wide under rated star in our Captain Paul Pierce

A dominant big in KG

One of the best shooters ever in Ray

A rising star in Rondo

A vet on the bench in Sheed

A lovable character in Baby

A token white guy is scal

AS well as a bunch of guys who know there role and help us win is Perk and House and hopefully Danials and Tony Allen.

There is a ton of reason to be excited. I can't wait for the season to start. I can't wait to see my team with a healthy KG again. I think he is going to start the season playing out of his mind. His quote about guaranteeing championships is a great thing. He now has something to prove.

Captain_Caveman · Post #2 » by **Captain_Caveman** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:28 am

It's a good squad, but waaaaay too old to make that claim.

Cyclical · Post #3 » by **Cyclical** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:57 am

I'm not quite with you on that claim... We're good but all-time great?

Bill Lumbergh · Post #4 » by **Bill Lumbergh** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:45 pm

We should have an excellent squad, but I'm doubting the all time great label.

I expect some slippage from KG, Ray, Paul, and Sheed. We'll have to wait to see how much occurs, but all are on the downhill side of their arc. We've got enough front court depth that barring injuries, KG and Sheed's minutes should be managed well. I've got way more concern about getting Paul and Ray rest. Hopefully Daniels will be good enough to allow for that. I'm unconvinced until I see it. Paul was a shell of himself by the time the Orlando series came around.

All in all, I'm very happy with the off-season thus far though, and we can probably look forward to another 60 win season.

Havlicek17 · Post #5 » by **Havlicek17** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:52 pm

I agree with Hemingway, but how great will be measured by how many championships we win.

1.) The Russell era

2.) The Bird era

3.) The Cowens era

Where this team falls will depend on how many rings we get in the next few years. I think we have a good shot of eclipsing #3 and maybe #2, but no way #1.

These 3 HOF'ers are playing for their spot in history. Sit back and enjoy my friends, because this don't happen very often.

JHTruth · Post #6 » by **JHTruth** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:43 pm

If this team keeps cranking out 60+ win seasons and wins say 2 more rings than this would have to be up there with at least the Cowens era. I agree with Hemingway, the potential is there for all-time greatness. Very few teams have ever had a frontcourt as good as this one. I believe in the adage, championships are won in the paint, and we have great potential to do just that..

joneb · Post #7 » by **joneb** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:30 pm

I think the potential could be there. If things really click between KG and Sheed, and I think that they will, those two alone could make the team special. I think this is what KG was alluding to when he called Sheed a mirror of himself. Well if they develop that kind of chemistry it will be fun to watch. Both of them possess extraordinary court awareness and passing ability, so doubling either one of them is going to get you hurt because the other will be open. And because they can both knock down open J's they can hurt you from almost anywhere on the offensive end. And then blend Sugar Ray and the Truth into the mix, and the offensive firepower becomes almost unimaginable. Throw in a young PG that gets into the lane with ease and is great at hitting the open man, and you've got the potential for an offensive machine that could be truly devastating.

On defense, the paint will be an intimidating place for our opponents with three outstanding low post defenders and shot blockers. Perk will complement Sheed just as well as he does Garnett. And this team should rebound very well. In addition to our big men, Pierce and Rondo are both very good rebounders for their positions.

And then consider chemistry. All of our core players are battle-tested in the playoffs, and know what it takes to win. All the talent in the world won't guarantee you a ring, unless the team plays with a single purpose. And Doc and the Big 3 have instilled that attitude into the team's collective minds.

So Hemingway, I think it's a little too early to say that this team could be among the best ever. We need to see how several things play out. Health will be an issue. KG's full recovery must be proven. Sheed and Marquis need to find their niches on the team, and integrate themselves into the attack. Age could be a factor as well. They need to pace themselves so that they are operating at full speed during the playoffs. Doc's substitution patterns will be very important. But I do agree that if the pieces come together seamlessly, and we stay healthy and fresh, we have the potential to be among the greatest squads to have ever worn the green.

Dirty Water · Post #8 » by **Dirty Water** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:59 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:It's a good squad, but waaaaay too old to make that claim.

The Greatest Team of All Time
'98 Bulls 72-10, WON NBA FINALS

PG Ron Harper (Age 34)
SG Michael Jordan (Age 35)
SF Scottie Pippen (Age 32)
PF Dennis Rodman (Age 37)
C Luc Longley (Age 29)

Bench
Toni Kukoc (Age 29)
Steve Kerr (Age 32)
Randy Brown (Age 29)
Bill Wennington (Age 34)

titlebound1 · Post #9 » by **titlebound1** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:02 pm

Ghost of the Garden wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:It's a good squad, but waaaaay too old to make that claim.

The Greatest Team of All Time
'98 Bulls 72-10, WON NBA FINALS

PG Ron Harper (Age 34)
SG Michael Jordan (Age 35)
SF Scottie Pippen (Age 32)
PF Dennis Rodman (Age 37)
C Luc Longley (Age 29)

Bench
Toni Kukoc (Age 29)
Steve Kerr (Age 32)
Randy Brown (Age 29)
Bill Wennington (Age 34)

Honestly...I think the 86 Celtics and 87 Lakers were better squads.

Dirty Water · Post #10 » by **Dirty Water** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:09 pm

titlebound1 wrote:
Honestly...I think the 86 Celtics and 87 Lakers were better squads.

I won't disagree with you. I just posted the team who put up the best record in NBA history and went on to win the NBA finals.

Ben-N1ce · Post #11 » by **Ben-N1ce** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:16 pm

Ghost of the Garden wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:It's a good squad, but waaaaay too old to make that claim.

The Greatest Team of All Time
'98 Bulls 72-10, WON NBA FINALS

Expansion year with the Grizz and Raptors + a shorter 3 pt line so MJ finally didn't shoot atrocious from 3 land. Going by record...yeah they had the best team. Not really though. The top 80's LA teams or C's are better IMO.

Dirty Water · Post #12 » by **Dirty Water** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:26 pm

Ben-N1ce wrote:Expansion year with the Grizz and Raptors + a shorter 3 pt line so MJ finally didn't shoot atrocious from 3 land. Going by record...yeah they had the best team. Not really though. The top 80's LA teams or C's are better IMO.

Ghost of the Garden wrote:I won't disagree with you. I just posted the team who put up the best record in NBA history and went on to win the NBA finals.

Bill Lumbergh · Post #13 » by **Bill Lumbergh** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:03 pm

Ghost of the Garden wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:It's a good squad, but waaaaay too old to make that claim.

The Greatest Team of All Time
'98 Bulls 72-10, WON NBA FINALS

PG Ron Harper (Age 34)
SG Michael Jordan (Age 35)
SF Scottie Pippen (Age 32)
PF Dennis Rodman (Age 37)
C Luc Longley (Age 29)

Bench
Toni Kukoc (Age 29)
Steve Kerr (Age 32)
Randy Brown (Age 29)
Bill Wennington (Age 34)

That's pretty interesting. I didn't remember them being that old. That's oddly comforting.

Cyclical · Post #14 » by **Cyclical** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:29 pm

As a counter example, the 96-97 Rockets' Big Three with a veteran bench proved too old. The legs just stopped working deep in the playoffs:

Hakeem (Age 34)
Barkley (Age 34)
Drexler (Age 33)

Made it to the WCF and stopped ticking.

We are a better team I think but there are no guarantees with older guys and nagging injuries. See the 1987 Celtics as another example:

Bird (Age 30)
Parish (Age 33)
DJ (Age 32)
McHale (Age 29) (ironically the youngest played in the most pain)
Walton (Age 34)

Barely made the Finals then stopped ticking.

We're very good but let's wait til the playoffs and see how we do, then evaluate the historical perspective.

Dirty Water · Post #15 » by **Dirty Water** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:53 pm

It really comes down to if a team is healthy enough to play at a high level. Age really isn't a factor. KG still worries me but our depth isn't a real concern anymore.

Bill Lumbergh · Post #16 » by **Bill Lumbergh** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:05 pm

Cyclical wrote:As a counter example, the 96-97 Rockets' Big Three with a veteran bench proved too old. The legs just stopped working deep in the playoffs:

Hakeem (Age 34)
Barkley (Age 34)
Drexler (Age 33)

Made it to the WCF and stopped ticking.

We are a better team I think but there are no guarantees with older guys and nagging injuries. See the 1987 Celtics as another example:

Bird (Age 30)
Parish (Age 33)
DJ (Age 32)
McHale (Age 29) (ironically the youngest played in the most pain)
Walton (Age 34)

Barely made the Finals then stopped ticking.

We're very good but let's wait til the playoffs and see how we do, then evaluate the historical perspective.

I agree with you about the wait and see approach, because you never know when guys will fall off and no longer have enough, but in fairness to the 87 squad, Parish was playing on badly sprained ankles, McHale was playing on a broken foot, and I don't even think Walton was playing in the playoffs. Wedman was a key reserve on the 86 squad but was traded away in Oct of 87. Given the injuries, it was remarkable that that team made it to the finals (Now, there's as steal by Bird!). All heart.

Here's to hoping we're more the 98 Bulls than the 97 Rockets. We shall see.

bballcool34 · Post #17 » by **bballcool34** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:20 pm

Mencius wrote:
Ghost of the Garden wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:It's a good squad, but waaaaay too old to make that claim.

The Greatest Team of All Time
'98 Bulls 72-10, WON NBA FINALS

PG Ron Harper (Age 34)
SG Michael Jordan (Age 35)
SF Scottie Pippen (Age 32)
PF Dennis Rodman (Age 37)
C Luc Longley (Age 29)

Bench
Toni Kukoc (Age 29)
Steve Kerr (Age 32)
Randy Brown (Age 29)
Bill Wennington (Age 34)

That's pretty interesting. I didn't remember them being that old. That's oddly comforting.

That's because they weren't- the 98 Bulls weren't anywhere close to an all time great team and were the weakest of the 6 Bulls championship teams IMO.

The 96 Bulls were the one that went 72-10- they breezed through the playoffs as well. Jordan was 32, Pippen was 30, Kukoc was 27, Rodman was 34. Still not young by any means.

In regards to our age- I'm not too worried about Ray- he's been known to keep himself in shape and as a shooter, he can keep it going for a while yet.

I'm worried about Pierce- he really seemed a step slow to me in the playoffs- still great at times in the playoffs- but slower on offense and lethagic on defense. I hope it was the just the fatigue of having to carry the team without Garnett, but who knows. For us to contend with the Cavs, Lakers of the world, we need a wing whose capable of matching Lebron and Kobe, at least for stretches- a fully healthy and not tired Pierce is that guy.

I have reservations about Garnett as well, but can't really know anything until we see him play.

Dirty Water · Post #18 » by **Dirty Water** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:25 pm

were the 96 bulls the ones that went 72-10? wow, just checked basketball reference. sorry always had it in my head it was the 98 bulls.

regardless, you can still win a championship with old guys tho

chakdaddy · Post #19 » by **chakdaddy** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:27 pm

The 1998 bulls were awful...apart from great defense. Honestly, those Pacers squads back then were good teams but not great, and they would have beaten them without timely hot streaks from Kukoc and big help from the refs. Same thing for Utah, they win without the refs and Karl Malone's choke artistry.

Sad thing about this topic is, the Lakers are closer to an all time great team than we are right now. The Kobe/Gasol/Artest/Odom combo is similar to ours but younger. I suppose either team could be a real all time great team - for us, we need continued improvement by Rondo and rejuvenation of Rasheed; the Lakers need Bynum to live up to his potential.

Captain_Caveman · Post #20 » by **Captain_Caveman** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:22 pm

I won't correct you on because someone else already did, but I agree that the 98 Bulls were slipping and would point out that there really wasn't a rival power during their run. The 98 Bulls would definitely not win the title in this era (and yes, with fair officiating they lose to Indy that year).

96 Bulls were a dominant team, but Jordan is more exception than rule. There are hundreds of examples for my point about age for each anomaly you can point out.

Further, the slippage is already evident in some of our key players. By the playoffs last year, Ray could neither defend nor take anyone off of the dribble. Sheed has been slipping for a couple of years now and one has to have serious reservations about the wear and tear on KG and how much longer Pierce can sustain his level of play given his style of play that leaves him lying on the floor a dozen times a game for the last ten years now.

We are good, but all-time great. I don't see it.