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Ok, so Celticsblog is now reporting what I have long suspected, the idea of playing MD as backup point is silly. He is not a back up point and besides that we need someone to back up Ray and PAul. Some will say we don't need a point. I find this to be false when you look at how Rondo plays. I love him but I don't want to bank on him never getting hurt. Some say we can pick up a pg at the break. True but pg is the hardest position to fit into a rotation. Lets do it now.

To me Marbury makes the most sense. But even if not him, we should get someone.

Not another tread about needing a back up PG.

Daniels could play PG. He isn't a true PG but did well in Dallas at that position.

And Marbury makes the least sense not the most. Haven't you seen his videos on late? The guy is crying, have another dude rub his shoulders, and eating vasoline, and smoking out in his videos. Marbury makes the least sense and needs help right now. He has ruined his chances of playing in the NBA again. It's sad and I wish Marbury the best.

Yeah let's decrease our chances of winning a title by not signing a talented back-up point guard because he eats Vaseline.

I don't think the Celtics need a backup PG right now for the following reasons.

1) Officially acquiring Marquis Daniels is top priority at the moment.

2) Ainge is patient. As the season wears on, injuries occur, and players' contracts are waived/bought out; good, cost-effective deals will be more available...The name most recently linked to the Celts is Carlos Arroyo, and while he's a nice player, I think we can do better if we wait.

3. People seem to be getting down on the fact that we don't have a "traditional" backup point guard. I understand why this a concern on some level but I think that overall the Celtics have players with good ball handling ability. Between Rondo, House, Daniels, Allen, Pierce and maybe Hudson, we have five or six guys to take care of the rock. Individually, House and Daniels are not ideal backup point guards in this league but together, I think they will complement each other very well on both sides of the floor and turn this perceived weakness (namely, lack of ball handling) into a strength. Also, I'm unsure why Eddie House isn't seen as the backup PG already. Over the past two seasons, he played more minutes at PG than anyone but Rondo. House's defense isn't great but that doesn't matter anymore because his defensive limitations will be offset by Daniels' stellar D.

4. I suspect that Bruce Bowen will end up with the Celtics. IF (big if, purely conjecture) that goes down the C's not only have the best bench in the league but also the most formidable. Furthermore, back up point guard becomes a moot point because the team is simply too talented for everybody else. I would much rather offer Bowen a contract than eagerly fill a roster space with a guy who won't play all that much.

5. Stick a fork in Marbury, he's done.

We don't need one. The offense should always be run through either Rondo, Ray, Pierce or Garnett. One of them will always be in the game unless its garbage time, in which case MD or EH will do fine.

I'd like to see Hudson play overseas and for the Celtics to pickup a backup PG/combo guard who can definitely contribute. No doubt backup minutes at the 1 and 2 will be dominated by Daniels and House, and this is a good thing. But we still need a deep bench guard who can play the point, and that's not a 2nd round guy who's never played a single NBA game. My preference would be Luther Head, cuz we don't necessarily need a playmaker.

Hemingway wrote:Ok, so Celticsblog is now reporting what I have long suspected, the idea of playing MD as backup point is silly. He is not a back up point and besides that we need someone to back up Ray and PAul. Some will say we don't need a point. I find this to be false when you look at how Rondo plays. I love him but I don't want to bank on him never getting hurt. Some say we can pick up a pg at the break. True but pg is the hardest position to fit into a rotation. Lets do it now.

To me Marbury makes the most sense. But even if not him, we should get someone.

First of all Celticsblog didn't "report" anything, it was basically a long post from someone in the "UK" basing the whole article on the fact that his friend who was a Pacer fan said that Daniels was a trainwreck as a point, and the rest was a diatribe about Jim O'Brien and Steve Nash that I really couldn't follow.

Everyone who looks at this pg situation and comes away talking about a "true pg" doesn't understand the Celtic offensive system or what is winning in the NBA right now. Daniels was successfully used as a pg in Don Nelson's offense, which is similar to Boston's based on ball movement in the halfcourt. Avery Johnson, who himself was the classic "true pg" moved away from that but also had a different roster with Terry and Harris that somewhat forced that decision.

Boston is not looking for a "true PG," the one they have is lost in the offense in the half court. With the addition of Wallace Boston will more than ever look to distribute the ball out of the post and look to create mismatches. Boston can right now go 9 deep with guys who can score the ball and defend. Beyond that because of the reality that it is harder to find taller people PG is the easiest position to fill we have been able to add a former All Star for the minimum each of the last two seasons.

I think Ainge believes he has what he would need in a 3rd pg in Lester Hudson, someone who can handle the ball, shoot the 3 and defend the position. Gabe Pruitt proved only to be able to do two of the three. 3 pt shooting is at a premium all around the league.

As far as turnovers go Rondo is the source of most of the TO's, while at the same time he also creates a lot of assists. If you look at other sort of problem areas most would be the bigs specifically Perk and Wallace will help with that.

The mid-season vet PG pickup has worked poorly for us for two years running. I don't see why anybody would have faith in it now.

Marbury doesn't seem to be working much on his game this summer. That bothers me more than the nuttiness.

Fencer reregistered wrote:The mid-season vet PG pickup has worked poorly for us for two years running. I don't see why anybody would have faith in it now.

Marbury doesn't seem to be working much on his game this summer. That bothers me more than the nuttiness.

They won the Championship two years ago it would seem to have worked fine. They didn't last season but I think that is far more at the feet of Mikki Moore not coming close to PJ than it was to Marbury. Oh and they were also missing that Garnett guy.

What are you expecting out of the pick up? Are you trying to replace Rondo?

Assuming the answer is no we are talking about what 15 mpg backing up the point?

Eddie House has put up 15 and 17 PERs the last two years backing up Rondo. How much better than that can you get out of a back up pg? If you can get him some help handling the ball he is clearly better. If you replace TA who is turnover prone if productive with Daniels who is very good handling the ball, you clear up a big part of that turnover issue . TA has had an assist percentages of 13 and 12 with a turnover percentage of 19, while Daniels is a guy who has 14/13 over his career.

In the end the guy this team is missing is the in case of injury. Right now that is TA, while fine in the 5-7 mpg roll, if Rondo or Eddie went down look out. So we need a guy who can handle at least 15 mpg and not be a turnover nightmare, it would help if they were a plus defender and could shoot the 3.

sully00 wrote:

Fencer reregistered wrote:The mid-season vet PG pickup has worked poorly for us for two years running. I don't see why anybody would have faith in it now.

Marbury doesn't seem to be working much on his game this summer. That bothers me more than the nuttiness.

They won the Championship two years ago it would seem to have worked fine. They didn't last season but I think that is far more at the feet of Mikki Moore not coming close to PJ than it was to Marbury. Oh and they were also missing that Garnett guy.

What are you expecting out of the pick up? Are you trying to replace Rondo?

Assuming the answer is no we are talking about what 15 mpg backing up the point?

Eddie House has put up 15 and 17 PERs the last two years backing up Rondo. How much better than that can you get out of a back up pg? If you can get him some help handling the ball he is clearly better. If you replace TA who is turnover prone if productive with Daniels who is very good handling the ball, you clear up a big part of that turnover issue . TA has had an assist percentages of 13 and 12 with a turnover percentage of 19, while Daniels is a guy who has 14/13 over his career.

In the end the guy this team is missing is the in case of injury. Right now that is TA, while fine in the 5-7 mpg roll, if Rondo or Eddie went down look out. So we need a guy who can handle at least 15 mpg and not be a turnover nightmare, it would help if they were a plus defender and could shoot the 3.

Luther Head. He'd be perfect for what you just described.

Yes it is. What happened to him anyhow? Why did he fall out of the rotation in HOU?

Another sharpshooting Rocket is apparently going to be on the move in Brent Barry. While I am not crazy about adding more age to the roster, he is capable of playing the one or the two offensively and defending the 2 or the 3. So he would be a nice insurance plan for Daniels who is probably are most fragile wing player. From the list of teams that the Rockets are talking trade with, LAC, OKC, MEM they are looking to move his contract out for an exception to free up a roster spot, the Rockets have 17 under contract and are over the lux tax. This is just a guess but something tells me one way or another a 37 year old Brent Barry is getting bought out or going home if those are the destinations.

I agree we need a backup PG, but Marbury doesn't make sense on any planet. he doesn't even make sense to himself anymore.

Luther Head wouldn't be terrible. I think he could at least bring the ball up unlike House, even if he's really more of a SG in a PG body.

We are good to go right now. I will go to war with this team. We have some expiring contracts and we can make a deal at the deadline if House/Daniels/Hudson can't handle it.

We can even actually build up Giddens and Walkers value in garbage time to help in a trade if need be.

As I just said in a different thread, we need a bench, not a backup PG.

Who were the backup PGs on any of our 17 title teams?

Captain_Caveman wrote:Who were the backup PGs on any of our 17 title teams?

KC Jones comes to mind as the most prolific of the Celtic backups....of course after Cousy retired KC Jones became the man...

They used to bring Sam in too and the Jones boys pressed their oponents silly...they were actually responsible for breaking games open with their "D" more often than not...

Would be great to get someone like KC...but just maybe we will soon have this player under contract if young Hudson is signed?

You know actually..... Rondo reminds me alot of KC....KC couldn't shoot either.....but he was a lightning quick ball-hawk and was terrific at defending.....and with Sam as his offensive minded sidekick they used to do some damage....

Tenbomber wrote:KC Jones comes to mind as the most prolific of the Celtic backups....of course after Cousy retired KC Jones became the man...

They used to bring Sam in too and the two of them pressed their oponents silly...they were actually responsible for breaking games open with their "D" more often than not...

Would be great to get someone like KC...but just maybe we will soon have this player under contract if young Hudson is signed?

Agree, but this was kinda my point.

KC wasn't really a true point so much as he was simply a basketball player.

Captain_Caveman wrote:

Tenbomber wrote:KC Jones comes to mind as the most prolific of the Celtic backups....of course after Cousy retired KC Jones became the man...

They used to bring Sam in too and the two of them pressed their oponents silly...they were actually responsible for breaking games open with their "D" more often than not...

Would be great to get someone like KC...but just maybe we will soon have this player under contract if young Hudson is signed?

Agree, but this was kinda my point.

KC wasn't really a true point so much as he was simply a basketball player.

Oh yes he was...but that development was over time.... You dont replace a Cousy just like that....but Sam and KC could sure play together and compliment each other when they were in there....KC ran the club....and Sam was the dead eye shooter on offence!

My fear is what if Rondo goes down? I firmly believe that we have the best team in the league. But last year proved that injuries can happen. Last year KG was the worst person to lose because the drop to Baby was so big. So we went out and Got Sheed. This year I think Rondo might be the worst guy to lose. If he went out with a month to go in the season what would we do? I want someone on the team where if they had to start I could still like our chances of winning a title.

X
Ray
Paul
KG
Perk

Who is that X that lests us win a title. I don't think it is House or Danials or Hudson. Yeah we might only have 10-15 minutes a game for them, but they would be practicing with the team, they would know the offense and the D.

I agree Hemingway. But the time to figure out who we need because of injury is not now. It's when an injury actually happens, or the trade deadline, whichever comes first. Right now it looks weak behind Rondo, but what if Perk and Sheed go down? Then suddenly we need big man depth.

I think we need someone who is a capable backup who could be a starter on many teams. That guy isn't available now, he isn't going to be a waiver wire pickup, and he isn't Steph. But lots of things happen over the course of a season. If we retain Scal and TA and develop our kids a bit, that could be an attractive package for whoever comes available. By then we should also know more about what we might need.

Hemingway wrote:My fear is what if Rondo goes down? I firmly believe that we have the best team in the league. But last year proved that injuries can happen. Last year KG was the worst person to lose because the drop to Baby was so big. So we went out and Got Sheed. This year I think Rondo might be the worst guy to lose. If he went out with a month to go in the season what would we do? I want someone on the team where if they had to start I could still like our chances of winning a title.

X
Ray
Paul
KG
Perk

Who is that X that lests us win a title. I don't think it is House or Danials or Hudson. Yeah we might only have 10-15 minutes a game for them, but they would be practicing with the team, they would know the offense and the D.

That's why Marbury is the answer. He is a perfectly capable starting PG. Yes, he is weirdo. I don't care. Sign him anyway.