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Hey yo!

Check this out:
http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/may/20 ... e-with-mj/

Any thoughts?
Kind regards.

May's argument for why Russell is the best ever, rather than Jordan is that he has more rings. Guess Robert Horry is ahead of Jordan as well.

MJ was the more complete player on both ends of the floor and is the greatest of all time.

I guess 11 rings being "the man" is quite a feat.

MJ was the best ever Im finally able to admit it, that doesnt take anything away from Russell, Wilt, Bird or Magic though

How many people who are sure Jordan is the best ever, never saw Bill Russell play?

...just wondering.

Gant wrote:How many people who are sure Jordan is the best ever, never saw Bill Russell play?

...just wondering.

But those aren't the people who proclaimed that Jordan was the greatest ever. When people were proclaiming that Jordan is the greatest player ever in the 80s~90s, those people weren't some teenagers who barely saw Bird-Magic play. Those were people in their 30s, 40s and 50s, who were old enough to have seen and remember what Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Bird and Magic were like. It's just that, when they saw Jordan, after all those guys, they knew.

Russell's definitely a top five player of all time, but the league was much smaller back then (fewer competing teams) and those Celtic teams were still stacked and could have won a few of those without him.

I never saw Bill Russell play.

From what I read and what past generations have told me, Russell wasn't a phenomenal offensive player. Jordan was the best defensive and offensive player in the league for ten years or so.

You're one of the few people alive that puts any stock into what Peter May thinks. This is the same guy, that before the KG deal, proposed a trade of Al Jefferson and the #5 pick for Andrei Kirilenko. Wow. It seems like May is the ultimate basketball insider-outsider - meaning that he rarely cites people in his articles with strong basketball sensibility. Most of his work, such as this, is purely speculative and lacks journalistic integrity. Russell was an unbelievable player/coach and an even better person but comparing him to Michael Jordan in such a way is laughable. It's pretty much common knowledge that Michael Jordan is the best player of all time and there's about a million articles on the web to prove Peter May wrong.

I don't agree that people in the 80's proclaimed Jordan the best ever. In fact people in the 80s said repeatedly that Magic and Bird were better than Jordan. It was only in the 90's that folks started saying Jordan was the greatest and very few of those people saw Russell play.

Russell dominated the game more than anyone. He was the greatest defender and smartest player of all time. He was the quickest center of all time and one of the most athletic.

I would encourage anyone who has questions on Russell (or Cousy, Sharman, Cowens, Havlicek etc.) to go to Celticsstuffgroup where there's a bunch of older guys who saw everyone play and who can give you opinions based on eyeball judgement: http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Celticsstuffgroup/


The best ever is opinion. Different people have different criteria for making the call. If you want the best stats it's Wilt. If you want the greatest winner it's Russell. If you want a mix, Jordan's a good pick.

But anyone who judges a player without ever having seen them is just guessing.

Zin5 wrote:Russell's definitely a top five player of all time, but the league was much smaller back then (fewer competing teams) and those Celtic teams were still stacked and could have won a few of those without him.

The league was so much smaller back then, EVERY team was stacked. If anything, that makes it harder to win a title. In Jordan's era, things were so diluted that having 2 of the very top players like Jordan and Pippen made you a lock for the title. In Russell's era, you had to have 4-5 top players, perfect chemistry, etc etc, and it still might not be enough. Celtics were stacked with Cousy/McCauley etc before Russell got there and they could never get over the hump.

Jordan is a favorite for the greatest ever, but it's an insult to lots of guys to proclaim him the greatest like it's gospel and there is no possible argument. The guy played in a weak era, couldn't come close to a title until the Celtics/Lakers/Pistons declined, and his accomplishments late in his career are really confounded by the contributions of the refs - it's difficult to separate his real accomplishments from the hype.

and the best there is, was, and ever will be is obviously Bret Hart...

You can't really compare players from different eras.

Gant wrote:I don't agree that people in the 80's proclaimed Jordan the best ever. In fact people in the 80s said repeatedly that Magic and Bird were better than Jordan. It was only in the 90's that folks started saying Jordan was the greatest and very few of those people saw Russell play.

Russell dominated the game more than anyone. He was the greatest defender and smartest player of all time. He was the quickest center of all time and one of the most athletic.

I would encourage anyone who has questions on Russell (or Cousy, Sharman, Cowens, Havlicek etc.) to go to Celticsstuffgroup where there's a bunch of older guys who saw everyone play and who can give you opinions based on eyeball judgement: http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Celticsstuffgroup/


The best ever is opinion. Different people have different criteria for making the call. If you want the best stats it's Wilt. If you want the greatest winner it's Russell. If you want a mix, Jordan's a good pick.

But anyone who judges a player without ever having seen them is just guessing.

Well, so in the late 80s when people were starting to proclaim that MJ was the greatest ever, who were these people? Certainly not the 13-year olds sitting at home like me. I don't remember any teenagers coming on TV saying this stuff. Those established TV personalities, writers and other media people were all in their 30s~50s. And those people were certainly old enough to have seen Russell, Wilt, Kareem, etc.

How many games did MJ score 40 points and grab 20 rebounds?

tombattor wrote:

Gant wrote:I don't agree that people in the 80's proclaimed Jordan the best ever. In fact people in the 80s said repeatedly that Magic and Bird were better than Jordan. It was only in the 90's that folks started saying Jordan was the greatest and very few of those people saw Russell play.

Russell dominated the game more than anyone. He was the greatest defender and smartest player of all time. He was the quickest center of all time and one of the most athletic.

I would encourage anyone who has questions on Russell (or Cousy, Sharman, Cowens, Havlicek etc.) to go to Celticsstuffgroup where there's a bunch of older guys who saw everyone play and who can give you opinions based on eyeball judgement: http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/Celticsstuffgroup/


The best ever is opinion. Different people have different criteria for making the call. If you want the best stats it's Wilt. If you want the greatest winner it's Russell. If you want a mix, Jordan's a good pick.

But anyone who judges a player without ever having seen them is just guessing.

Well, so in the late 80s when people were starting to proclaim that MJ was the greatest ever, who were these people? Certainly not the 13-year olds sitting at home like me. I don't remember any teenagers coming on TV saying this stuff. Those established TV personalities, writers and other media people were all in their 30s~50s. And those people were certainly old enough to have seen Russell, Wilt, Kareem, etc.

I'm not sure who you mean. I don't recall anyone old enough to remember Russell saying such things. Who specifically in the media are you referring to?

I'm sorry MJ was the best I've even seen. Never seen Russell but he wasn't the most dominate offensive player of his time. Jordan was the best scorer and defender. His teams won championship moreso on the defensive end then on offense. Russell played with a handful of HOF and Jordan only played with 1 maybe two (Rodman).

Frank Lucas wrote:I'm sorry MJ was the best I've even seen. Never seen Russell but he wasn't the most dominate offensive player of his time. Jordan was the best scorer and defender. His teams won championship moreso on the defensive end then on offense. Russell played with a handful of HOF and Jordan only played with 1 maybe two (Rodman).

But the rules were not bent in Russell's favor. MJ would have averaged about 16 pts a game if he played in the 60's.

I thought you guys were talking about this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btS0OVdqkb0