OT Hemingway solves iraq and afgan wars

[Hemingway]

So after years of thinking about it I have finally come up with a way to end our wars. Here is what we do:

First we identify the Afghanistan - Pakistani border area as the epicenter of terror. Next we call for a "surge" on this area. To do so we call back most troops from iraq. We put a lot of troops in the border area for a few months and kill as many al quida as possible. In this time we sort out the election, declare democracy achieved and the terror threat marginalized and bring everyone home. If we go ahead with everything now we can time it so everyone is home for Christmas and the money saved can make the bailouts and healthcare reforms more palatable.

Your welcome.

[wigglestrue]

1. Build time machine.
2. Go back in time to October of 2001.
3. Actually try to catch/kill Bin Laden and cohorts in Tora Bora.
4. Send troops home.

Sans time machine, I'd say #4 should still work today.

[SilverQuick]

1. Build time machine.
2. Go back in time to October of 2001.
3. Actually try to catch/kill Bin Laden and cohorts in Tora Bora.
4. Send troops home.

Sans time machine, I'd say #4 should still work today.

1. Build time machine.
2. Go back in time to 1996 nba draft
and go back to it again, again until celtics won the 1. overall and select TD.
then everything will be good for Celtics fans

[Prophet_C]

I know it's OT but c'mon......we don't need this here

[OBisHalJordan]

1. Build time machine.
2. Go back in time to October of 2001.
3. Actually try to catch/kill Bin Laden and cohorts in Tora Bora.
4. Send troops home.

how 'bout this
1. build a time machine
2. go back to 1979
3. don't use the CIA and ISI to fund, create and train the direct predecessor Al Qaeda, Afghan Mujaheddin, to fight the Soviet invasion
4. never send to troops to Afghanistan because there is no virulent anti-American organization there because we never **** with the country
5. Bin Laden is an angry dude in Egypt

Seriously, though, Hemingway's "idea" is basically what the Obama administration is trying to do. And by the Obama Administration I mean the Bush administration from about 2006 to 2008. This is foreign policy continuity by redefinition and it ain't gonna work. Counterinsurgency always operates through the particular of the social inequalities of the society in which the campaign is conducted. What always happens is, through corruption and tacit accommodations, the ostensible policy goals are undermined (neutralizing high level leaders) and, instead, poor people at the bottom of the non-state armed organizations get caught in the dragnet and corrupt leaders use the system for sectarian ends.

[SonicYouth34]

You're all wrong.

First, you go back to September 11, 2001. Put Scal on both planes and he saves the day.

[return2glory]

1. Build time machine.
2. Go back in time to October of 2001.
3. Actually try to catch/kill Bin Laden and cohorts in Tora Bora.
4. Send troops home.

Sans time machine, I'd say #4 should still work today.

We were never looking for Bin Laden. Bin Laden was used as a shape goat, a reason to start the war.
The Bushes are long time family friends with the Bin Laden family. It may be hard for some of you to beleive, but the US government attacked our country so they would go to war. Our government planned the 9/11 attacks.

16 of the 19 so called hijackers of those planes were from Saudi Arabia, so why did we attack Iraq. To get Sadam out of control and so we could have control in Middle East. The war is about oil, control, and power. After 7 years, why are our troops still there and we are about to send more?

Do some research. Watch Loose Change and Chronicles of 9/11. Yes, our governement hides things from us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E3oIbO0AWE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-yscpNIxjI

[Andrew McCeltic]

The government planned 9/11????? Why is this not widely known?/???????

What's really funny is that all our votes count equally.

[wigglestrue]

I'm all for hardcore 9/11 skepticism, but Loose Change is the definition of internet conspiracy crap. Anyway, just as carrying pictures of Chairman Mao won't get you anywhere with anyone, neither will declarative statements that "our government planned the 9/11 attacks". For anyone looking for actual substance go to historycommons.org and browse the 9/11 timeline.

http://www.historycommons.org/project.j ... 11_project

/tinfoil

[Banks2Pierce]

People in our gov't were definitely involved in the 9/11 business. A lot of this is an awful smear campaign on the "brown people" and it makes me pretty disgusted by most Americans.

Loose Change definitely had a lot of crap in it, but the official story was even worse. Yea, Atta's passport just came flying out of the plane into the rubble unharmed by flames that allegedly were enough to burn the core of the building. Sure. And WTC 7 for me is the Smoking Gun of the whole thing.

Also, I'm sure a bunch of guys in caves knew that NORAD was doing drills on something very similar on that exact day. Too many coincidences on one day.

[wigglestrue]

People in our gov't were definitely involved in the 9/11 business. A lot of this is an awful smear campaign on the "brown people" and it makes me pretty disgusted by most Americans.

Loose Change definitely had a lot of crap in it, but the official story was even worse. Yea, Atta's passport just came flying out of the plane into the rubble unharmed by flames that allegedly were enough to burn the core of the building. Sure.

Spend some time with the 9/11 timeline, you'll avoid a mistake like that. It wasn't Atta's passport, it was al-Suqami's. But yeah, I find it impossible to believe a passport could look that good after such trauma.

http://www.historycommons.org/events-im ... -13059.jpg
http://www.historycommons.org/events-im ... 2-9425.jpg

And WTC 7 for me is the Smoking Gun of the whole thing.

Meh, I don't find any demolition theories persuasive. WTC7 had a gigantic wound at its base and was also engulfed in fire on many floors (not to mention the ridiculously located fuel reserve). Fire might not melt steel, but it weakens a building's infrastructure. It could have collapsed on its own. It could have been "pulled" intentionally (but semi-secretly) somehow for the sake of keeping emergency personnel safe from a random collapse. Lots of possible and plausible scenarios instead of a demolition planned in advance.

Also, I'm sure a bunch of guys in caves knew that NORAD was doing drills on something very similar on that exact day. Too many coincidences on one day.

Not just NORAD. Granted on any given day there are probably a multitude of exercises taking place in various agencies, but the number of them that week/morning dealing with events similar to 9/11 is stunning. Especially since we were told 9/11 was inconceivable. Coincidences do happen. But a heaping pile of consecutive and related coincidences is implausible. Requires one to become a coincidence theorist.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Granted on any given day there are probably a multitude of exercises taking place in various agencies, but the number of them that week/morning dealing with events similar to 9/11 is stunning.

What's your source for this?

[TonyMontana]

Your welcome.

Is this another one of your " Its 3am and I'm exhausted, but it hit me, and I wanted to share that we have one of the all time great teams" threads.

[Inside/Outside]

It blows my mind that out of all the terrible things our government did in the aftermath of 9/11 that such a large number of people are delusional enough to not only believe ridiculous conspiracy theories, but to spend so much time and effort to spread the word about it. All this talk about about controlled demolitions and a clandestine plot to slaughter thousands of innocent people makes me wonder if people realize this is the same government couldn't remember to turn off a tape recorder in the Oval Office or keep Moncia Lewinsky under wraps.

People should be angry and asking questions about Iraq, Abu Ghraib, wiretapping, the response to Katrina, and about a hundred other things but instead they're believing any Youtube video with unscrupulous citations. I probably shouldn't have even responded to this since absolutely no good can come of this thread, but 9/11 Truthers are so ignorant that it makes me real life angry.

Lock this thread.

[Banks2Pierce]

Lol at calling us ignorant...oh, the irony.

[wigglestrue]

Granted on any given day there are probably a multitude of exercises taking place in various agencies, but the number of them that week/morning dealing with events similar to 9/11 is stunning.

What's your source for this?

http://www.historycommons.org/timeline. ... yExercises

Scroll down nearer to 9/11 (however, take the time if you have it to read the rest of the sub-timeline). Some of the exercises might just be different code names/aspects of one overriding exercise. But there's at least one NORAD exercise that week dealing with an airplane hijacking, and an NRO drill that morning dealing with a plane having crashed into a building, and an OEM exercise the next morning in Manhattan dealing with bioterrorism. Three is a stunning number to me. But like I said, those drills might happen all the time.

[wigglestrue]

It blows my mind that out of all the terrible things our government did in the aftermath of 9/11 that such a large number of people are delusional enough to not only believe ridiculous conspiracy theories, but to spend so much time and effort to spread the word about it.

I guess there are some 9/11 victims' family members who are pretty delusional, then.

All this talk about about controlled demolitions and a clandestine plot to slaughter thousands of innocent people makes me wonder if people realize this is the same government couldn't remember to turn off a tape recorder in the Oval Office or keep Moncia Lewinsky under wraps.

Well, I agree re: demolitions, most of that **** is absurd. But the whole incompetence thing is lame. Massive clandestine operations that involve murder aren't delusions, our government (or maybe more accurately, a shadowy element of our government) has been quite capable of those. However, if you're talking about conspiracy theorists who imagine almost the entire government being "in on it", then yeah, totally ridiculous.

People should be angry and asking questions about Iraq, Abu Ghraib, wiretapping, the response to Katrina, and about a hundred other things but instead they're believing any Youtube video with unscrupulous citations.

The buildup to Iraq was basically a semi-clandestine plot to slaughter thousands of innocent people, carried out by a relatively small group of supposedly incompetent politicians, profiteers, and spooks. FWIW. I don't see how being angry about one thing precludes being angry about another. I do see how crappy YouTube sensationalism with bad if any citations is a disease.

I probably shouldn't have even responded to this since absolutely no good can come of this thread, but 9/11 Truthers are so ignorant that it makes me real life angry.

It's possible some good could come of this thread. Unlikely. I expect it to be locked, too. But I figure might as well voice the reasonable side of 9/11 skepticism before the thread dies a horrible cartoonish death. Which threads that get hijacked by Truthers usually suffer. I am not a Truther.

Lock this thread.

Meh.

[Inside/Outside]

As far as victims families believing in conspiracy theories go, that's anecdotal at best. The reactions of grief-stricken families isn't proof of anything.

Yeah, the whole government incompetence point is pretty weak and if anything was more of a joke. It's fair to have some 9/11 skepticism because of the sheer volume of bad information out there about what happened. If anything, I think it's fair to believe that the Bush administration was peripherally aware of the danger al-Qaeda posed and that they put a lot of effort into deflecting attention to that, but the idea that the government was responsible for 9/11 is such a giant leap in logic that you can't even really reason with people who believe that sort of thing. Skepticism is a good thing, but there's not any logic to conspiracy theories about 9/11 being an inside job. I'm not going to say anything else about this because they're people that absolutely cannot be convinced.

[Andrew McCeltic]

The problem with conspiracy theories is that they're not falsifiable. Absence of evidence is proof that evidence is being successfully concealed.

Can small groups of people orchestrate events in such a way that their roles are kept secret and evade investigation? Such a group would have to contend with the risks of leaks, whistle-blowers, defections, mistakes, accidents (and all the incentives that individuals would have to leak, whistle-blow, defect).. good stuff for a bad screenplay but not very likely in the real world.

[wigglestrue]

As far as victims families believing in conspiracy theories go, that's anecdotal at best. The reactions of grief-stricken families isn't proof of anything.

Well, it's proof that's it not just ordinary tinfoilers.

Yeah, the whole government incompetence point is pretty weak and if anything was more of a joke. It's fair to have some 9/11 skepticism because of the sheer volume of bad information out there about what happened. If anything, I think it's fair to believe that the Bush administration was peripherally aware of the danger al-Qaeda posed and that they put a lot of effort into deflecting attention to that, but the idea that the government was responsible for 9/11 is such a giant leap in logic that you can't even really reason with people who believe that sort of thing.

Depends on the level of responsibility in the leap, in my opinion. A few soulless ideologues facilitating some hijacker travel arrangements...a small band of ruthless warmongerers financing much of the operation through Al Qaeda...a little army of spooks hacking into flight controls to ensure the terrorists' success...a whole agency sponsoring the event from start to finish using terrorists purely as patsies...the entire government planning 9/11 since the middle of the 20th century as an epic psychological fulcrum...I've seen it all theorized re: "MIHOP", from the somewhat plausible to the insane. That's why I tend not to theorize like that with any degree of confidence. There are facts, motives, patterns, etc. but the inner workings of any real-life successful conspiracy = necessarily going to be mostly hidden and unknowable, so speculating about the exact nature of a conspiracy is useless.

Skepticism is a good thing, but there's not any logic to conspiracy theories about 9/11 being an inside job. I'm not going to say anything else about this because they're people that absolutely cannot be convinced.

There's plenty of logic to it, just depends on what kind of inside job you mean. I think an armed robbery facilitated by a few bank security guards with an ulterior motive is a very logical scenario. The warmongerers didn't just get lucky, is my hunch.