We need to rebuild after 2010 Season

[Wolves2011]

Rondo is a restricted free agent in summer 2010.

Ray Allen is a free agent in summer 2010.

It sounds like Ray wants a longer term deal for more money than Ainge is willing to commit and will enter free agency next summer.

It looks increasingly likely that Rondo goes into free agency next summer, and someone offers more than the Celtics are willing to match.

Once those players leave we can't replace them. We are still over the cap in the summer of 2010 even without Ray and Rondo. So the only guys we can bring in are mid-level exceptions and veteran minimum types. We can't replace Ray and Rondo, with those options.

In 2011 it gets worse. I

Pierce and Perkins are free agents in the summer of 2011.

Only 4 guys potentially on the roster in 2011 at this point - KG, Wallace, Giddens, Walker with total expenditures of $31 million [of which KG is getting $21.2 million and Wallace is getting $6.8 million]

There's no Pierce resigned, no Ray replacement, no Rondo replacement, no Perkins resigned.

Even if you could get Pierce and Ray and Perkins to resign for $7 million each [I don't think you can] or a total of $21 million

You have $52million of the cap space locked up and only you only have 7 people on the roster, no starting PG and only the mid-level exception as major money to complete the roster....

When this team was put together Ainge was planning on a $65 million or $70 million cap. .... not a $50 million cap.

We NEED to rebuild!

even if we could resign all of those guys, and we can't, we would have an aging group no longer able to win a championship.

We don't have the cap space to add to the team... and we probably dont' want to spend the money to necessary resign Rondo and Perkins. [Both are probably due salaries of at least $10 million. For Perkins, note good big man defenders are expensive and Perkins is also developing some offense.]

We NEED to rebuild!

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

I'm not worried about 2010-2011 as much as I am 2021. Rondo will have played 14-15 seasons, and with the way he attacks the basket, I'm not sure he can play beyond that. Who's going to start in 2021? I'm hoping that the Cs have enough capspace by then to be able to sign a vet PG like a Russell Westbrook or Johnny Flynn to back up Rondo. Sure, they'll be on the wrong side of 30, but veterans win in this league.

I am also worried that Perk's shoulder won't hold up by the time 2021 comes around. Hopefully with the advances being made in medicine and biomechanics, Perk will have had a bionic shoulder installed by then.

We need to rebuild in 2021.

[Wolves2011]

I'm not worried about 2010-2011 as much as I am 2021. Rondo will have played 14-15 seasons, and with the way he attacks the basket, I'm not sure he can play beyond that. Who's going to start in 2021? I'm hoping that the Cs have enough capspace by then to be able to sign a vet PG like a Russell Westbrook or Johnny Flynn to back up Rondo. Sure, they'll be on the wrong side of 30, but veterans win in this league.

I am also worried that Perk's shoulder won't hold up by the time 2021 comes around. Hopefully with the advances being made in medicine and biomechanics, Perk will have had a bionic shoulder installed by then.

We need to rebuild in 2021.

very subtle, you are comparing 2010 to 2021......

Next season is not far away.....

We need to be making decisions about Rondo and Ray, now, Today.

Do we give Rondo his $10 million now or let him escape into free agency.

Do we let Ray escape into free agency.

Because if we let them get into free agency next summer, we can't replace them and must rebuild.

We need to make a decision now about Rondo before the regular season begins.

[floyd]

Rondo is a restricted free agent in summer 2010.

Ray Allen is a restricted free agent in summer 2010.

It sounds like Ray wants a longer term deal for more money than Ainge is willing to commit and will enter free agency next summer.

It looks increasingly likely that Rondo goes into free agency next summer, and offers more than the Celtics are willing to match.

Once those players leave we can't replace them. We are still over the cap in the summer of 2010. So the only guys we bring in are mid-level exceptions and veterans minimum. We can't replace Ray and Rondo, with those options.

In 2011 it gets worse. I

Pierce and Perkins and free agents in the summer of 2011.

Only 4 guys potentially on the roster in 2011 at this point - KG, Wallace, Giddens, Walker with total expenditures of $31 million [of which KG is getting $21.2 million and Wallace is getting $6.8 million]

There's no Pierce resigned, no Ray replacement, no Rondo replacement, no Perkins resigned.

Even if you could get Pierce and Ray and Perkins to resign for $7 million each [I don't think you can] or a total of $21 million

You have $52million of the cap space locked up and only you only have 7 people on the roster, no starting PG and only the mid-level exception as major money to complete the roster....

When this team was put together Ainge was planning on a $65 million or $70 million cap. .... not a $50 million cap.

We NEED to rebuild!

even if we could resign all of those guys, and we can't, we would have an aging group no longer able to win a championship.

We don't have the cap space to add to the team... and we probably dont' want to spend the money to necessary resign Rondo and Perkins. [Both are probably due salaries of at least $10 million. For Perkins, note good big man defenders are expensive and Perkins is also developing some offense.]

We NEED to rebuild!

You can go over the cap to resign your own players. Ray is not restricted. The idea that the club won't put up the cash to sign Ray or Rondo because they want too much money is pure speculation.

[floyd]

In your doom and gloom scenario you forgot that Pierce can opt out next year. Hopefully he does what KG did and takes a long term extension at lower salary giving us more financial flexibility.

[Wolves2011]

Rondo is a restricted free agent in summer 2010.

Ray Allen is a restricted free agent in summer 2010.

It sounds like Ray wants a longer term deal for more money than Ainge is willing to commit and will enter free agency next summer.

It looks increasingly likely that Rondo goes into free agency next summer, and offers more than the Celtics are willing to match.

Once those players leave we can't replace them. We are still over the cap in the summer of 2010. So the only guys we bring in are mid-level exceptions and veterans minimum. We can't replace Ray and Rondo, with those options.

In 2011 it gets worse. I

Pierce and Perkins and free agents in the summer of 2011.

Only 4 guys potentially on the roster in 2011 at this point - KG, Wallace, Giddens, Walker with total expenditures of $31 million [of which KG is getting $21.2 million and Wallace is getting $6.8 million]

There's no Pierce resigned, no Ray replacement, no Rondo replacement, no Perkins resigned.

Even if you could get Pierce and Ray and Perkins to resign for $7 million each [I don't think you can] or a total of $21 million

You have $52million of the cap space locked up and only you only have 7 people on the roster, no starting PG and only the mid-level exception as major money to complete the roster....

When this team was put together Ainge was planning on a $65 million or $70 million cap. .... not a $50 million cap.

We NEED to rebuild!

even if we could resign all of those guys, and we can't, we would have an aging group no longer able to win a championship.

We don't have the cap space to add to the team... and we probably dont' want to spend the money to necessary resign Rondo and Perkins. [Both are probably due salaries of at least $10 million. For Perkins, note good big man defenders are expensive and Perkins is also developing some offense.]

We NEED to rebuild!

You can go over the cap to resign your own players. Ray is not restricted. The idea that the club won't put up the cash to sign Ray or Rondo because they want too much money is pure speculation.

They could go over the cap to resign Rondo and Ray, you are correct.

But if Ainge was going to do that, those deals would likely be done by now.

He has two weeks before the regular season begins, then they both go to free agency.

Rondo has said he wants $10 million to resign. Ainge won't give it to him.

A max contract next summer for a player with Rondo's longevity and a $50 million cap is projected to be about $12.5 million. Someone will offer that to Rondo, Ainge won't match, and Rondo is gone.

Ray is looking for more years than Ainge wants to commit to. Thats why Ray showed up at camp in the best shape of his life.

In the summer of 2011, Perkins contract is up. He was making about $4 million. A bargain for a great defender, very good passer and someone developing some offensive moves near the basket. The going rate for a good big man is $8 million to $10 million minimum.

Will the Celtics want to give Perkins that much?

Just because the Celtics can pay more for their own players doesn't mean they will.....

As the pre-season winds down, Rondo and Ray without contract extensions means, we are going in another direction next summer.

[Wolves2011]

In your doom and gloom scenario you forgot that Pierce can opt out next year. Hopefully he does what KG did and takes a long term extension at lower salary giving us more financial flexibility.

Lets examine your scenario.

How much of a discount will Pierce give the Celtics.

His player option next season is for $21.5 million.

Lets say he agreed to take only $10 million to help the team
[I don't think he would do this, but you do so lets see if it helps.]

Next season we have

KG 18.8
Wallace 6.3
Perkins 4.4
Davis 3.3

Pierce $10.0 [down from $21.5]

Total 42.8 million

Cap estimate $50.0 and maybe lower if the economy isn't stronger.

So you have $7.2 million to replace Ray and Rondo, which you can't do.

and since you only have 5 guys on the roster and the minimum roster size is 12 or 13.......you can't do it.

Or I should say, you can't do it and have a championship caliber team.

Some on this site seem to have fantasies we can still be competitive if we lose Ray and Rondo.

But we can't replace them if they leave.

[floyd]

What exactly gives you the impression that the organization won't spend to have a winning team? We have one of the highest payrolls in the league and just add Sheed while above the tax. The likelihood these guys walk is pretty slim. If we fall short this year, they may blow it up but otherwise this group should be kept in tact.

The reason to keep those guys unsigned may very well be to see how the season goes and if we're clearly not a top contender try and move Rondo and Ray for Amare or some other disgruntled stud. You extend them and that option closes. You wait and you can still keep them. Rondo is restricted and Ray likes it here.

[floyd]

You misunderstand me. Flexibility in regards to payroll and the tax, not the cap. We clearly aren't going to be free agent players any time soon. This point has been beaten to death here.

[Wolves2011]

What exactly gives you the impression that the organization won't spend to have a winning team? We have one of the highest payrolls in the league and just add Sheed while above the tax. The likelihood these guys walk is pretty slim. If we fall short this year, they may blow it up but otherwise this group should be kept in tact.

The reason to keep those guys unsigned may very well be to see how the season goes and if we're clearly not a top contender try and move Rondo and Ray for Amare or some other disgruntled stud. You extend them and that option closes. You wait and you can still keep them. Rondo is restricted and Ray likes it here.

Unless we are under the salary cap, we are essentially out of the free agent market.

we can't add free agents except with the mid-level exception [once per year] - next season maybe $5.5 million, with salary cap going down to $50 million. [I believe its based on the average nba salary.]

Biannual exception around $2 million and going down - only once per year

Veteran minimum.....tiny amount of money - depends on years of experience.

We can spend the money to keep our own people.

But Ainge won't give Rondo or Ray contracts, so I'm assuming he wants to go in another directions.

Once the regular season starts both Ray and Rondo have reached free agency. .....

Though Rondo is restricted and we can match, why would we want to spend roughly $12.5 million next summer when we can spend only $10 million to get Rondo now.......

Don't think ainge will match next summer.

[darrendaye]

Wolves, on this, I agree with you. I see the situation playing out like this....

Ray has to take MLE type money to come back. He has to fall in the later stages Reggie Miller type role. Accept fewer minutes on the court.

I don't share your gloom about loing Rajon, but, I will say they need to get value from him. Whether it be step up in play or Ainge needs to deal him for an heir apparent.

I'd love for Pierce to refuse his player option and sign at an appropriate number. That would show his team loyalty and that would be just cause for allowing him to retire a Celtic. That would go a long way to helping restock the talent.

They really just need to find the next superstar wing. Ainge should be stearing this ship, in the near term, towards that objective. I have faint hopes that Bill Walker may be an answer. But he needs to show an overall game. All we know is that he can dunk and he plays with some toughness. The toughness I like. But he needs to be able to shoot, handle the ball, and play top level defense.

So, rebuild or just retool, either works for me as long as the goal is to bring in that star wing.

[Havlicek17]

Some of your assumptions are incorrect.

First, you cannot jump to the conclusion that just because we have not resigned Ray and Rondo, we will not do so after the season is over based on the cap space situation. Ray's next contract will come down sigificantly, and will provide more than enough room to resign Rondo. Ray will be an unrestricted free agent, but he and his wife (due to their son's diabete's and the care he is getting from Boston's world leading hospitals) have said numerous times, that they plan to have Ray stay on with the Celts and retire here. Rondo will be a restricted FA and no way we're letting him go for cost savings reasons.

Secondly, unless you are going to get some kind of huge discount for re-signing either of these guys early, if I were the GM, I wouldn't do it.

1.) Professional athlete's always play best when they are in a contract year.
2.) It limits your flexibility in possible trade scenarios.
2.) What happens if they get seriously hurt and you just signed them to a new 3 year deal?
3.) What happens if they go all Stephen Jackson on your arse and instead of having just signed them to a new 5 year deal, they are an expiring? Oops!

The beauty of this team's payroll is that the big three expire in different years, and all three are towards the end of their careers so they are going to get lower salaries as they go. This allows us to not only sign Rondo next offseason, but also add salary with new players coming in over the next few years, while still maintaining the same or similar payroll to this year.

I expect we will hang banner # 18 this year and resign both Ray and Rondo next offseason.

[Wolves2011]

Wolves, on this, I agree with you. I see the situation playing out like this....

Ray has to take MLE type money to come back. He has to fall in the later stages Reggie Miller type role. Accept fewer minutes on the court.

I don't share your gloom about loing Rajon, but, I will say they need to get value from him. Whether it be step up in play or Ainge needs to deal him for an heir apparent.

I'd love for Pierce to refuse his player option and sign at an appropriate number. That would show his team loyalty and that would be just cause for allowing him to retire a Celtic. That would go a long way to helping restock the talent.

They really just need to find the next superstar wing. Ainge should be stearing this ship, in the near term, towards that objective. I have faint hopes that Bill Walker may be an answer. But he needs to show an overall game. All we know is that he can dunk and he plays with some toughness. The toughness I like. But he needs to be able to shoot, handle the ball, and play top level defense.

So, rebuild or just retool, either works for me as long as the goal is to bring in that star wing.

Ray has already said he wants another big contract for multiple years. No action from Danny so I think we know the answer there - Ray wants too many years for too much money. He's won a championship. He wants his last big contract playing for a good team. I think he gets it next summer. Once the major free agents are gone Ray will get his $10 million 3 or 4 year deal.

Rondo can block a sign and trade next summer, by letting the other team know he will demand a trade, if it isn't a destination he wants to go. Someone will offer Rondo his $12.5 million max contract and Ainge won't match. If he was going to match he'd give Rondo $10 million now to resign [Rondo said he take $10 million last spring to Cornbread Maxwell in an converation.]

As for Pierce taking a discount, if you look above in this string of postings, I already showed it really doesn't help. Even if Pierce lowered his salary to only $10 million next season, we are still too close to the salary cap to bring in free agents.

Once Ray and Rondo leave... and we can't replace them in free agency, our pursuit of a championship is over until we rebuild.

What we should do, is trade KG, Wallace, Pierce etc... while they still have trade value.

Bring in good young players and draft picks.

If we let these guys "die on the vine" we have no shot at winning a championship once Ray and Rondo are gone, but it takes 2 or 3 years longer to rebuild.

[billfromBoston]

Rondo is a restricted free agent in summer 2010.

Ray Allen is a free agent in summer 2010.

It sounds like Ray wants a longer term deal for more money than Ainge is willing to commit and will enter free agency next summer.

It looks increasingly likely that Rondo goes into free agency next summer, and someone offers more than the Celtics are willing to match.

Once those players leave we can't replace them. We are still over the cap in the summer of 2010 even without Ray and Rondo. So the only guys we can bring in are mid-level exceptions and veteran minimum types. We can't replace Ray and Rondo, with those options.

In 2011 it gets worse. I

No...

Neither premise at the beginning is sound - both Rondo and Ray are just as likely to sign as to not - pehaps more likely to sign...you are getting your information from "hype" on the message boards and not reading the NBA Tea Leaves...

Pierce and Perkins and free agents in the summer of 2011.

Only 4 guys potentially on the roster in 2011 at this point - KG, Wallace, Giddens, Walker with total expenditures of $31 million [of which KG is getting $21.2 million and Wallace is getting $6.8 million]

There's no Pierce resigned, no Ray replacement, no Rondo replacement, no Perkins resigned.

Even if you could get Pierce and Ray and Perkins to resign for $7 million each [I don't think you can] or a total of $21 million

You have $52million of the cap space locked up and only you only have 7 people on the roster, no starting PG and only the mid-level exception as major money to complete the roster....

When this team was put together Ainge was planning on a $65 million or $70 million cap. .... not a $50 million cap.

We NEED to rebuild!

even if we could resign all of those guys, and we can't, we would have an aging group no longer able to win a championship.

We don't have the cap space to add to the team... and we probably dont' want to spend the money to necessary resign Rondo and Perkins. [Both are probably due salaries of at least $10 million. For Perkins, note good big man defenders are expensive and Perkins is also developing some offense.]

We NEED to rebuild!

[Wolves2011]

Some of your assumptions are incorrect.

First, you cannot jump to the conclusion that just because we have not resigned Ray and Rondo, we will not do so after the season is over based on the cap space situation. Ray's next contract will come down sigificantly, and will provide more than enough room to resign Rondo. Ray will be an unrestricted free agent, but he and his wife (due to their son's diabete's and the care he is getting from Boston's world leading hospitals) have said numerous times, that they plan to have Ray stay on with the Celts and retire here. Rondo will be a restricted FA and no way we're letting him go for cost savings reasons.

Secondly, unless you are going to get some kind of huge discount for re-signing either of these guys early, if I were the GM, I wouldn't do it.

1.) Professional athlete's always play best when they are in a contract year.
2.) It limits your flexibility in possible trade scenarios.
2.) What happens if they get seriously hurt and you just signed them to a new 3 year deal?
3.) What happens if they go all Stephen Jackson on your arse and instead of having just signed them to a new 5 year deal, they are an expiring? Oops!

The beauty of this team's payroll is that the big three expire in different years, and all three are towards the end of their careers so they are going to get lower salaries as they go. This allows us to not only sign Rondo next offseason, but also add salary with new players coming in over the next few years, while still maintaining the same or similar payroll to this year.

I expect we will hang banner # 18 this year and resign both Ray and Rondo next offseason.

Most NBA teams want to get an extension done in the fall of the season before free agency.

Once players reach free agency things are beyond their control.

According to Ray and Ainge, they haven't even discussed an extension.

From interviews given by Ray in September, he said he wants another longer term contract. He also didn't talk about home town discounts. He wants his money.

Ainge and Rondo have been talking, but haven't reached agreement. They still might. I've been advocating they resign Rondo now and not wait for free agency.

In the case of "restricted" free agents, even more than for free agents teams don't normally want to wait until free agency.

But we will see. Its possible that Ainge can resign Ray and Rondo next summer, just much less likely.

In Rondo's case it will likely cost more than Ainge would have to pay now. About $10 million now, About $12.5 million next summer.

In Ray's case, I don't think Ainge wants to be locked into 3 or 4 plus year contract, which is what Ray is looking for.

But we will have to see what happens the rest of the pre-season and next summer.

I'm saying once Ray and Rondo are gone, we have to rebuild. We have no other options. We can't replace them.

Even if we could keep them, with the Big 3 and Wallace getting older it will be increasingly unlikely that we win another championship as the years go by.

For the 2010 season...

Wallace turns 36 in Sept 2010
Ray turns 35 in July, 2010
KG turns 34 in May, 2010
Pierce turns 33 in Oct, 2010

As you get older injuries become more prevalent. It just takes one injury to one of these guys to end championship hopes for the year. All of these guys have had season ending injuries already.

Ideally they should be playing fewer minutes, but since we can't add to the team, their minutes and wear and tear will remain high.

I think we should be trading these guys next summer.

I'd rebuild starting in the summer of 2010.

I remember the 80's

or I should say I remember how long it took us to rebuild after the 80's.

Rather than trading the first Big 3, we rode them until they had nothing left.

It took a long time until we were relevant again.

Lets not repeat that mistake.

[greenbeans]

hmm,,, that you JoeBiscuit?

[JSABleedsGreen]

Wolves2011 you are tripping man. Did you take a puff before you started writing 10 entries on your own post?

You don't need to rebuild yet....not yet. You have 3 or 4 contracts that come off the books this season. Danny can use T.Allen & Scalabrine contracts and move them later this year for a 5 year veteran who will be here for at least 2 or 3 years. That's why he not dumping TA....he's going to use his contract later this year. The same way he tried to move his contract to the Pacers to try and sign Marquis for a longer term and more $.

I'm not worried about 2010. Ray will resign and he will resign for less. I expect him to resign at 8-10 per year. I expect rondo to sign around 9 to 11. If you take the midpoint of each of those offers 9+10....that's Ray's contract this season. Now the question is whether or not Ray will sign for less and i think he will. No one wants to relocate at age 34. He has his family here. He praises the orginazation all the time and he has for the first time found a home. He was happy in Seattle but if you ask me....he just looks like a happier person in boston surrounded by all these talented players. My thoughts are he stays. The same goes for Pierce. He doesn't want to rellocate, he will have take less. I can't think of many players who have rellocated at age 33 and have played well there afterwards. He knows that he's not going to find another team that will fit his style so why leave the one team that has players that fit your style?

My biggest concern would be KG's last year. What if the Celtics make the playoffs every year and get mid 20 draft picks every year from here on out till 2012. They won't have any talented youth. They won't have tradable assets unless they trade one of the big vets.....will they though?

Remember those years when Bird left? then Mchale? Then finally Parish? I can see that happening again...I can see this team being $hitty years 2013 through 2017...when all you have is Rondo and Perk and possibly a Glen Davis or a Bill Walker.

So rebuilding will start in 2012-2013 season......and it will be a rock bottom rebuilding process.

[Wolves2011]

Wolves2011 you are tripping man. Did you take a puff before you started writing 10 entries on your own post?

You don't need to rebuild yet....not yet. You have 3 or 4 contracts that come off the books this season. Danny can use T.Allen & Scalabrine contracts and move them later this year for a 5 year veteran who will be here for at least 2 or 3 years. That's why he not dumping TA....he's going to use his contract later this year. The same way he tried to move his contract to the Pacers to try and sign Marquis for a longer term and more $.

I'm not worried about 2010. Ray will resign and he will resign for less. I expect him to resign at 8-10 per year. I expect rondo to sign around 9 to 11. If you take the midpoint of each of those offers 9+10....that's Ray's contract this season. Now the question is whether or not Ray will sign for less and i think he will. No one wants to relocate at age 34. He has his family here. He praises the orginazation all the time and he has for the first time found a home. He was happy in Seattle but if you ask me....he just looks like a happier person in boston surrounded by all these talented players. My thoughts are he stays. The same goes for Pierce. He doesn't want to rellocate, he will have take less. I can't think of many players who have rellocated at age 33 and have played well there afterwards. He knows that he's not going to find another team that will fit his style so why leave the one team that has players that fit your style?

My biggest concern would be KG's last year. What if the Celtics make the playoffs every year and get mid 20 draft picks every year from here on out till 2012. They won't have any talented youth. They won't have tradable assets unless they trade one of the big vets.....will they though?

Remember those years when Bird left? then Mchale? Then finally Parish? I can see that happening again...I can see this team being $hitty years 2013 through 2017...when all you have is Rondo and Perk and possibly a Glen Davis or a Bill Walker.

So rebuilding will start in 2012-2013 season......and it will be a rock bottom rebuilding process.

I'm responding to all of those who disagree with my analysis.

I'm willing to have a debate on any item.....

If Ray and Rondo are not resigned the Celtics need to rebuild next summer. The Celtics don't have the cap space to replace them.

At this point, I'd say its less then 30% chance that both Ray and Rondo are resigned next summer.

If neither is signed before the regular season begins, I'd say its less than 20% both are resigned next summer. [Still a chance Rondo and Celtics work an agreement this fall.]

You really don't think T.A. and Scalabrine are going to get you a great player back in the trading market...lol,......

...that is a joke, right?

the most it will get you is someone like Wilkins on Minnesota.....not a difference maker. Someone to fill a veteran spot on the bench, much like Tony and Scalabrine.

They would not replace the loss of a Ray or Rondo, by any stretch of anyone's imagination.....even yours, I hope.

[ParticleMan]

This thread is beyond dumb.

It's painting a ridiculously negative scenario with stupid assumptions and then claiming that we need to react before all the **** hits fan.

um, we have a pretty good GM. i seriously doubt all the gloom and doom you paint will actually come to pass.

as for rondo and ray not re-signing, it's called NEGOTIATION. there's no hurry right now. they are under contract this year. we can sign them for any amount, regardless of our cap situation. So there's no need to panic.

we've never been big players in the FA market, and we won't be in the future. Ainge is very clear on this. signing overpaid middling FA's is the road to cap hell. we didn't build our championship team with FA's. the biggest name we've ever signed is Sheed, and that was for the MLE and was a complete no-brainer.

Let me spell it out. AGAIN.
The road to staying competitive involves three things: Having large, expiring contracts (preferably with some value left); having good young players with upside; and having draft picks.
That's the recipe for being able to put together a package for the next superstar who wants to change teams, be it Wade or Lebron or Bosh or whoever. That's what the other team is going to want. That's how we got Ray and KG, without giving up Pierce. And that's exactly what Ainge continues to build here.

Let's assess our situation: For expiring deals, we've got Ray this year, Pierce the next, and KG the year after. We may not deal them but it's an option we have every season for the near future. For good young players we've got Rondo, Perk, BBD, and some young guys who have upside like Hudson and Giddens and Walker to sweeten the pot. And we have all our picks after this year.

NOTE: Nowhere among these criteria is cap space. Cap space is a dumb way to build a team, because the guys who are really good aren't going to become UFA's, they are either going to be sign-and-traded (since they can get more money, and their team can get something back), or else they are going to be traded before they reach FA so the team doesn't lose them for nothing. The guys who end up hitting the UFA market (and are worth more than the MLE) are Larry Hughes types, secondary players who end up getting grossly overpaid. Look around and you'll see that very few of the top teams are led by guys signed as UFAs. They're either draft picks or guys obtained in trades.

[Wolves2011]

This thread is beyond dumb.

It's painting a ridiculously negative scenario with stupid assumptions and then claiming that we need to react before all the **** hits fan.

um, we have a pretty good GM. i seriously doubt all the gloom and doom you paint will actually come to pass.

as for rondo and ray not re-signing, it's called NEGOTIATION. there's no hurry right now. they are under contract this year. we can sign them for any amount, regardless of our cap situation. So there's no need to panic.

we've never been big players in the FA market, and we won't be in the future. Ainge is very clear on this. signing overpaid middling FA's is the road to cap hell. we didn't build our championship team with FA's. the biggest name we've ever signed is Sheed, and that was for the MLE and was a complete no-brainer.

Let me spell it out. AGAIN.
The road to staying competitive involves three things: Having large, expiring contracts (preferably with some value left); having good young players with upside; and having draft picks.
That's the recipe for being able to put together a package for the next superstar who wants to change teams, be it Wade or Lebron or Bosh or whoever. That's what the other team is going to want. That's how we got Ray and KG, without giving up Pierce. And that's exactly what Ainge continues to build here.

Let's assess our situation: For expiring deals, we've got Ray this year, Pierce the next, and KG the year after. We may not deal them but it's an option we have every season for the near future. For good young players we've got Rondo, Perk, BBD, and some young guys who have upside like Hudson and Giddens and Walker to sweeten the pot. And we have all our picks after this year.

NOTE: Nowhere among these criteria is cap space. Cap space is a dumb way to build a team, because the guys who are really good aren't going to become UFA's, they are either going to be sign-and-traded (since they can get more money, and their team can get something back), or else they are going to be traded before they reach FA so the team doesn't lose them for nothing. The guys who end up hitting the UFA market (and are worth more than the MLE) are Larry Hughes types, secondary players who end up getting grossly overpaid. Look around and you'll see that very few of the top teams are led by guys signed as UFAs. They're either draft picks or guys obtained in trades.

I'm saying we need to REBUILD.

You appear to agree, then call me an idiot for my saying we should rebuild.

[If you don't agree thats my core point look at the title of the thread "We need to rebuild after the 2010 Season".]

If you think we should rebuild then you agree with me.

you said and I quote:

The road to staying competitive involves three things: Having large, expiring contracts (preferably with some value left); having good young players with upside; and having draft picks.

Why do you need large expiring contracts if you don't want to trade them?

The only large expiring contracts we have are the Big 3. If we trade them we are REBUILDING.

Or am I missing something.

Having good young players with upside and draft picks at least partially depends on losing to get those good picks and giving playing time to those good young players so they can develop.

Its hard to give young players playing time on a team chasing a championship.
[And Doc especially doesn't trust young players much.]

So we need to REBUILD

You say we can deal Ray, Pierce and KG contracts.

We are in agreement.

Only I go further and say we should.

Because we NEED TO REBUILD

You call me an idiot and then agree with me.

Does that make you an idiot also?