RealGM

From Today's Globe:

"In a survey of general managers, Rondo was tapped as the fourth best as a perimeter defender and split with Kobe Bryant for the league’s best on-the-ball defender."

These are the guys who could be recruiting Rondo next summer in free agency.

GM's will pay for good defense.

The scary part is Doc thinks Rondo can get a lot better on defense.

How do you get better than #1 on the ball defender per the NBA GM's.

Guess you could ALSO be the #1 perimeter defender, which is what Doc references. Improving his team defense. [Moving up from #4 to #1.] Thats what coaches are for, getting you to improve.

Rondo's defense along with passing, rebounding and penetrating is why Rondo will get a big contract offer next summer if he reaches free agency.

And for all of you who say, Doc see's room for improvement so he can't be #1, the NBA GM's will be the one's trying to sign Rondo if he reaches free agency, not the coach who is trying to motivate him to get even better.

Rondo will get his money from the Celtics or from someone else next summer.

Doc also said he doesn't think the GM's have a clue, because they don't actually coach Rondo. He pointed out all the things we've all seen, that he reaches too much, doesn't stay in front of him man, and doesn't fight thru picks.

that said, he's CAPABLE of being one of the best on-the-ball defenders in the NBA, he has the tools. hopefully this year he will make the leap.

in any case, the question about Rondo isn't his defense or rebounding or passing. Everyone knows he's a max player at those things. The question is, is he a max player at shooting?

The answer so far this preseason remains a resounding no.

ParticleMan wrote:Doc also said he doesn't think the GM's have a clue, because they don't actually coach Rondo. He pointed out all the things we've all seen, that he reaches too much, doesn't stay in front of him man, and doesn't fight thru picks.

that said, he's CAPABLE of being one of the best on-the-ball defenders in the NBA, he has the tools. hopefully this year he will make the leap.

in any case, the question about Rondo isn't his defense or rebounding or passing. Everyone knows he's a max player at those things. The question is, is he a max player at shooting?

The answer so far this preseason remains a resounding no.

You think the NBA GM's who VOTED, Rondo the best on the ball defender in the NBA, won't pay for that skill along with great passing, rebounding, and a 50% shooting percentage?

If Danny doesn't give Rondo a $10 million contract in the next 10 days, and Rondo reaches free agency we will see who is right.

Next summer either Ainge matches a max. contract or we lose him.

Rondo was voted the best on the ball defender by NBA GM's.

He is also the most disruptive defender, creating havoc when teams try to set up their offense.

When you add what the stat's guys say...

Rondo is 6th in the NBA in Wins Produced, and #3 among PG, to his defense, he gets his contract.

We will keep Rondo, unless Danny decides he does not want Rondo.

The system is structured to make it almost impossible for Rondo to leave if the Cs want him. He is an RFA next summer.

Rondo isn't much of a shooter. True. He needs to improve to be a max player. True. Especially free throw shooting. It would also be nice if he could finish with his left hand. Those two things alone would make him an 18-20 ppg guy. Because Rondo can get to the line at will.

If he became a great shooter he would arguably be one of the three best players in the league. Is it fair to rag on the guy for this?

But what Rondo does, that very few other pgs can do, is dominate a game without being much of a shooter. He is 23 and most pgs improve dramatically from 23 to 26 or 27 (See Payton, Gary; Kidd, Jason; Stockton, John; Nash, Steve; Billups, Chauncey; Harris, Devin)

The glass is 3/4 full, not 1/4 empty.

Embrace Rondo; don't piss on him. When he is gone we will miss him badly. Guys like Rondo do not grow on trees.

Definitely, Rondo is a guy we need to hold on to.

It's just that people like Wolves keep harping on all the great things that Rondo does, while blatantly ignoring the one thing that NBA GMs pay for the most: The ability to shoot the ball.

All the other stuff is great, but if you can't shoot, you won't get the big $$s. The GM poll didn't ask them how many would sign Rondo to a max deal; I can assure you the number would be a lot lower. It doesn't matter that you can disrupt other teams and rebound from the PG spot. Look around and tell me how many non-shooting PGs in the NBA make 10mil/yr.

I think Rondo is worth 10-11 mil per, and I think he will get that either now or next season, unless he shows dramatic improvement in his shooting this year. Since he's still young and is working hard to improve, I'd rather lock him up now, but we definitely shouldn't pay the max.

The difference between how Doc and NBA GM's view Rondo is that Doc is constantly evaluating where Rondo is at in his development, how much untapped potential he has. Whereas NBA GM's are looking at what type of impact he's currently having on games. And it's it fascinating that NBA GM's are looking at Rondo as an Elite level on-the-ball defender already, and a very very good perimeter defender? So when Doc looks at Rondo's potential he sees a player who could be the best all around perimeter defender in the NBA, at least pound for pound and inch for inch.

Now, on the other side of the ball Rondo is definitely an unfinished product. He's got some holes in his game the biggest of which is his freethrow shooting woes. If he can get up to 75% from the line he'll easily be worth $12 million because he can get into the lane at will and he'll live at the line with the way refs love to protect the little guys. Will he get there? Who knows but the preseason performance to this point hasn't instilled confidence in me. However, Davis had a rough start with his shooting last season and turned it around so I think there's still hope that Rondo can become a better shooter.

Oh, and wait, Doc as a coach is presumably both trying to keep Rondo motivated to improve--and hoping that his (also clueless?) GM gets him signed at a reasonable rate in the next two weeks.

ParticleMan wrote: The GM poll didn't ask them how many would sign Rondo to a max deal; I can assure you the number would be a lot lower. It doesn't matter that you can disrupt other teams and rebound from the PG spot.

yes, you are probably right. But it only takes ONE GM to offer Rondo a Max deal, not all of them.

Thats why Ainge should lock up Rondo now for $10 million before he goes to free agency in 10 days.
[Rondo said in early summer that he would sign for $10 million.]

All that changes if he goes to free agency.

It will only cost us $2.5 million more for Ainge to match next summer, since max for someone like Rondo with a cap reduced to $50 million will be about $12.5 million, but why waste the money?

A 24yo pg who had already anchored two championships--and probably looked even better in this year's series than the last--could be pretty compelling to some GM out there with the need and wherewithal to simultaneously make a splash and start rebuilding.

fair enough, but i see one of two scenarios with rondo playing out this year, and in either case we are almost certain to keep him:

1- Rondo gets a decent jumpshot, becomes the two-way threat we all envision he can be, and becomes a bona fide star player. In that case, I would be more than happy to pay him the max. Since the C's can offer him the most money and years, and since he seems pretty happy here, I think there's really no way we lose him.

2- Rondo doesn't develop much on the offesnive end, and still has limited ability. In that case, it will be now 4 years in the league he hasn't been able to address the single most glaring deficiency in his game. Now I know it only takes 1 dumb GM, but the fact is that the precedent is that *no* GMs are willing to give max dollars to guards who can't carry a team offensively. That's what history tells us, and there's no reason to expect next year will be any different. So maybe a GM offers $10 mil or so then, but we would certainly match that.

As I said I think it'd be great to sign him to $10 mil/yr now. I'm happy with that. In fact, I'd be surprised if that offer (or something at least close, like 9 mil per) isn't already on the table. Trouble is, there is little incentive for Rondo to take it. He knows he can basically only improve his stock this year, barring major injury. So why would he accept it? I'm sure his agent is telling him to wait and see what transpires this year, see if you can make the next leap and become a max player. He's got $10 mil sewn up. Unless he really just wants the security, he doesn't have to take it now.

So basically I think the ball is in Rondo's court at this time, and there's no incentive for him to make a move just yet.

And Rondo is the type of player who's going to put fans in the seats. Let's face it he's a very exciting player the speed, the athleticism, the steals, the dunks, the flair, the alley oops, the circus shots... I mean he's got a serious WOW factor to his game. From a purely business standpoint Rondo's the type of player you want to sign, especially if you're looking to play an uptempo brand of ball. Regardless though, the Celtics hold all the power here so it's not much of a concern and if all you stand to really lose is a couple million per season, it makes a decent amount of sense to see how the year plays out and then reevaluate from there. Unless of course Rondo's willing to sign a contract that's south of $10 million.

Rondo is not a max player when coaches are still having Rondo's man play free safety, and he needs to take his offensive game to the next level. I hope and think we'll see a major step in that direction, this season. I'd be happy with anything above 14ppg, with his same level of efficiency.

ParticleMan wrote:fair enough, but i see one of two scenarios with rondo playing out this year, and in either case we are almost certain to keep him:

1- Rondo gets a decent jumpshot, becomes the two-way threat we all envision he can be, and becomes a bona fide star player. In that case, I would be more than happy to pay him the max. Since the C's can offer him the most money and years, and since he seems pretty happy here, I think there's really no way we lose him.

2- Rondo doesn't develop much on the offesnive end, and still has limited ability. In that case, it will be now 4 years in the league he hasn't been able to address the single most glaring deficiency in his game. Now I know it only takes 1 dumb GM, but the fact is that the precedent is that *no* GMs are willing to give max dollars to guards who can't carry a team offensively. That's what history tells us, and there's no reason to expect next year will be any different. So maybe a GM offers $10 mil or so then, but we would certainly match that.

As I said I think it'd be great to sign him to $10 mil/yr now. I'm happy with that. In fact, I'd be surprised if that offer (or something at least close, like 9 mil per) isn't already on the table. Trouble is, there is little incentive for Rondo to take it. He knows he can basically only improve his stock this year, barring major injury. So why would he accept it? I'm sure his agent is telling him to wait and see what transpires this year, see if you can make the next leap and become a max player. He's got $10 mil sewn up. Unless he really just wants the security, he doesn't have to take it now.

So basically I think the ball is in Rondo's court at this time, and there's no incentive for him to make a move just yet.

I agree--$10M should do it and be fine all around. I don't think he's at risk of a max offer next year and of course the economy and the League are still dragging, but someone could bid him up. Every player has a weakness and the PG's the spot where a shooting weakness can be tolerated--especially if he's proven he can run multiple championship teams.

Rondo would be smart to think like Perk and take pretty good now, 'cause you never know what could happen in a year.

Career -- 1107 1094 37.2 0.402 0.342 0.782 1.5 5.2 6.7 9.2 2.0 0.3 3.13 1.90 13.8 numbers for jason kidd..the highest ppg was 18.6 then 16.9 but mainly was around 14 pts. he got paid

Career -- 934 775 31.1 0.487 0.432 0.900 0.5 2.4 3.0 8.0 0.8 0.0 2.71 1.80 14.4 number for steve nash the highest 18.8 then 18.6 but mainly was around 14 pts. he got paid too

Point is this dude is going to be paid. I'm a huge Rondo supporter but i'm getting tired of defending him on a supposed boston fan board, How people don't look at stats and hype the nba is giving this player and people say that no gm will give him money dude is burning up with media hype and talent somebody is going to pay whether the the hype is real or not somebody always bites...
I posted some of those stats and the win score was posted the gm's voting was posted all place rondo very high even gamers have him ranked high, but for like some reason there is still doubt... not with me man lock him up and throw away the key make him a lifer on the celtics. i can find all the facts to sway you legit stats god could comedown on all news channels and say what gifts he bestowed on him, the devil would lie and say he made rondo that way for deal on his soul. but yet some boston fans will argue about it...confused and over it. Rondo is even a good boston name i'm out.

ParticleMan wrote: Now I know it only takes 1 dumb GM, but the fact is that the precedent is that *no* GMs are willing to give max dollars to guards who can't carry a team offensively. .

The player most like Rondo is Jason Kidd.

Didn't carry anyone offensively.

But great passer, defender and rebounder.

Last year he made $21.4 million, the highest of any P.G.

humblebum wrote:And Rondo is the type of player who's going to put fans in the seats. Let's face it he's a very exciting player the speed, the athleticism, the steals, the dunks, the flair, the alley oops, the circus shots... I mean he's got a serious WOW factor to his game. From a purely business standpoint Rondo's the type of player you want to sign, especially if you're looking to play an uptempo brand of ball. Regardless though, the Celtics hold all the power here so it's not much of a concern and if all you stand to really lose is a couple million per season, it makes a decent amount of sense to see how the year plays out and then reevaluate from there. Unless of course Rondo's willing to sign a contract that's south of $10 million.

Unless the Celtics want to match a MAX agreement next summer, they should offer $10 million now and sign him.

The player most like Rondo is Kidd.

Not a great shooter. Not able to carry a team offensively.

But a great defender, rebounder and passer.

Last year he made $21.4 million.

Someone will give Rondo a Max. Offer.

Most likely a team that misses out on the Lebron/Wade sweepstakes and wants to put fannies in the seats, as you say, he has a great WOW factor.

Rondo is also worth a lot more to a team who wants to run.

That makes him worth more to a D'Antoni for instance than to the Celtics, who really can't run much with half their rotation players - 5 of them - being in their 30's

Pierce, Ray, KG, Wallace, House.

Rondo's PER against isn't that great. He is perhaps the best on the ball defender at the PG position. But none of those guys can stop anyone. Nor do PG's do much on help defense..

You can easily see Rondo's defensive impact by noting how mediocre the C's were without KG. A PG isn't going to do much - especially a small one. Some of the bigger ones like JKidd and GPayton were able to play decent help defense.

GuyClinch wrote:Rondo's PER against isn't that great. He is perhaps the best on the ball defender at the PG position. But none of those guys can stop anyone. Nor do PG's do much on help defense..

You can easily see Rondo's defensive impact by noting how mediocre the C's were without KG. A PG isn't going to do much - especially a small one. Some of the bigger ones like JKidd and GPayton were able to play decent help defense.

lol......Rondo doesn't do much on help defense...lol..... what are you watching?

He probably has more deflections than anyone else in the NBA!!

He is the guy harassing guys like Duncan on the double teams.

He is the one most often leaving his man double, because he has the speed to leave his man and get back.

And it costs him when his man gets an open look.

I trust the NBA GM's.

Rondo #1 [with Kobe] on the ball defense.

and Rondo #4 perimeter defender.

lol......Rondo doesn't do much on help defense...lol..... what are you watching?

He probably has more deflections than anyone else in the NBA!!

I am watching the game.
Rondo-R.Allen-Pierce-Garnett-Perkins .98 (Points per Possesion allowed)
House-R.Allen-Pierce-Garnett-Perkins 1.00 (Points per Possesion allowed)

It's funny how your a 'stat guy' except when the stats don't reinforce your views. <g>

Pete

sorry, rondo is not even CLOSE to Kidd in his prime. Kidd was a guy who could get into the lane and FINISH almost at will. when his athleticism declined he became a pretty good 3-pt shooter. rondo has neither of those offensive abilities.

i'm far from a rondo hater, but some of you aren't taking off the green-tinted glasses. rondo's a very nice player but he is clearly the 4th best player on this team. any of the other guys who are supposedly "comparable" are at least 2nd if not the best players on their teams.