I bet we end up getting yet another mid season pg

Hemingway · Post #1 » by **Hemingway** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:12 am

Watching the game tonight I became painfully reminded of a flaw we have had for a while. When the second unit is in, we end up starting the offense too far out. House dishes it off half way between the 3 point line and halfcourt. Who ever he passes it to usually has a lot of pressure and struggles to pass it off again. Some times it takes 3 passes before we can get the ball to the 3 point line.

It makes sense to give Hudson some time to see if he can really step it up. I don't mean that to knock him, no one is expecting him to be able to be a rotation back up point on the best team in the world. So I think we will give Hudson a little time and by mid season be looking for another Carbaby*.

*Carbaby is he term for Cassell and Marbaby or a baby stuck in a car.

Post #2 » by **ParticleMan** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:20 am

this entire preseason we've tried to force feed house mins at the pg pot. i don't understnd it. that ship has sunk. daniels is our backup pg. when he's in there we do fine.

Celts17Pride · Post #3 » by **Celts17Pride** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:48 am

I agree. That's why I keep mentioning Antonio Daniels if he gets bought out from Minny like he is expected to before the season starts. The Celtics keep trying to sell Marquis Daniels as the backup PG and he is OK but they really need a bonifide backup PG.

M. Daniels is a excellent pickup as a 3 position swingman but not a full time backup PG. Hudson is a keeper but he is still young in terms of NBA experience. The Marquis Daniels/House backcourt is fine for the regular season but will get eaten up alive during the playoffs. Haven't we been down this road before?

IMO the ideal 2nd unit would be a Backup PG (A. Daniels or someone else.), House, Marquis, BBD and Wallace. Scalabrine would be on the bench for spot duty.

When Rasheed, House, Scalabrine are on the court at the same time it seems like all the Celtics do is shoot 3 pointers.

We shall see if Danny and Doc feel the same way.

BRUNiNHO91 · Post #4 » by **BRUNiNHO91** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:52 am

ParticleMan wrote:this entire preseason we've tried to force feed house mins at the pg pot. i don't understnd it. that ship has sunk. daniels is our backup pg. when he's in there we do fine.

I actually thought House played the point better than Daniels tonight. But I am all for the signing of a vet PG..Antonio Daniels could be a good fit for this team..it would solve our only weakness...

Antonio
House
Quisy
Baby
Sheed

Hard thing would be getting a roster spot for him... :-?

Celts17Pride · Post #5 » by **Celts17Pride** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:54 am

BRUNiNHO91 wrote:Hard thing would be getting a roster spot for him...

If you could get a quality backup PG then you say goodbye to Tony Allen.

BRUNiNHO91 · Post #6 » by **BRUNiNHO91** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:59 am

Celts17Pride wrote:I agree. That's why I keep mentioning Antonio Daniels if he gets bought out from Minny like he is expected to before the season starts. The Celtics keep trying to sell Marquis Daniels as the backup PG and he is OK but they really need a bonifide backup PG.

M. Daniels is a excellent pickup as a 3 position swingman but not a full time backup PG. Hudson is a keeper but he is still young in terms of NBA experience. The Marquis Daniels/House backcourt is fine for the regular season but will get eaten up alive during the playoffs. Haven't we been down this road before?

IMO the ideal 2nd unit would be a Backup PG (A. Daniels or someone else.), House, Marquis, BBD and Wallace. Giddens would be on the bench for spot duty.

When Rasheed, House, Scalabrine are on the court at the same time it seems like all the Celtics do is shoot 3 pointers.

We shall see if Danny and Doc feel the same way.

Fixed. IMO Scal sucks..

The rest of your post is spot on.

Post #7 » by **sully00** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:07 am

I have to agree with the concern about the post season. I don't care about the second unit what I care about is if we lose Rondo for an extended period or for a game in the postseason.

The reason some people think he is some cross between Cousy and Magic is that we have nothing else. I think it is a lot to expect of Hudson but at the same time shoving former all stars into the role hasn't worker either.

Celts17Pride · Post #8 » by **Celts17Pride** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:10 am

sully00 wrote:I have to agree with the concern about the post season. I don't care about the second unit what I care about is if we lose Rondo for an extended period or for a game in the postseason.

That's my biggest concern. I hope Danny and Doc feel the same way. I wouldn't sign just any PG though. Someone who could be a real asset for 12-18 minutes a game.

ryaningf · Post #9 » by **ryaningf** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:15 am

Hudson's shown enough to be getting PG minutes in the preseason...I don't have any idea what Doc was doing tonight with his rotations...when the Knicks play two point guards, wouldn't it make sense to matchup with Hudson and House?

Our backup PG play is fine...assuming Rondo stays healthy all season. I'd hate to think of this team with Daniels or House running it for 48 minutes a night. But, in the regular season, for the 12-15 minutes when Rondo's on the bench, they'll be fine. No need to shuffle the roster, or eat big luxury tax penalties, all for a 10 minute a night aging combo guard. Antonio Daniels hasn't been getting it done for a couple years now...

Hudson, once he gets a little experience, is the perfect backup point on this team...a good defending Microwave-type scorer, who can dribble against pressure, hit open shots, and create for himself.

Celts17Pride · Post #10 » by **Celts17Pride** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:22 am

ryaningf wrote:No need to shuffle the roster, or eat big luxury tax penalties, all for a 10 minute a night aging combo guard. Antonio Daniels hasn't been getting it done for a couple years now....

The only way you bring in someone like Antonio Daniels is at the vet min. I think Antoinio Daniels would be fine to bring the ball up, run the 2nd unit, take care of the ball and play defense. That's what the Celtics really need from a backup PG IMO. Offense would be a bonus.

cloverleaf · Post #11 » by **cloverleaf** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:20 am

Hemingway wrote:So I think we will give Hudson a little time and by mid season be looking for another Carbaby*.

*Carbaby is he term for Cassell and Marbaby or a baby stuck in a car.

Or maybe they'll sign 'Marcel'--as in Marcel Jones from the NBDL.

SonicYouth34 · Post #12 » by **SonicYouth34** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:11 am

Can Daniels guard SG's?

Avalanche · Post #13 » by **Avalanche** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:24 am

speaking of Antonio

http://www.startribune.com/sports/wolve ... page=2&c=y

• Kahn said he expects a resolution with veterans Antonio Daniels and Mark Blount this week. He gave both players permission to stay away during preseason while their agents seek trades or contracts elsewhere. Expect the Wolves to cut ties with both players.

GuyClinch · Post #14 » by **GuyClinch** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:43 am

The real problem is House IMHO. Doc doesn't want to lose House's shooting. But really if you play him at off-guard your messing up the defense. So the guy pretty much HAS to play PG. Only if Doc and company decide to move out of the House era would we be able to solve our backup PG issue..

JR Hawks · Post #15 » by **JR Hawks** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:54 pm

Doc is seeing what we're all seeing...Hudson's not an NBA point guard. Bring in a vet PG now.

Hemingway · Post #16 » by **Hemingway** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:13 pm

2 points I want to make:

1. To who ever said that bringing in former allstars to play back up point has not worked in the last 2 seasons I completely disagree. While Sam and Stephon did not play anywhere near their former levels, they certainly played to the level that one would expect of a back up point guard. If Hudson could play as well as either of them did in there time here we would not be having this discussion. I think the let down was a result of high hopes. I think we all wanted Sam and Stephon to have some flashes of their past and take over a game or 2. That never happened, but we did win a title and likely would have won another with KG in there.

2. The problem with MD as the back up point is that he is the only guy on the second unit who can drive. In the final 5 or so minutes against NYs starters only MD was making anything happen on O. Ideally we should have him as 2nd string 3 and 3rd string 1 and 2.

Post #17 » by **ParticleMan** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:46 pm

Anything we won the last couple of years was *in spite* of Sam and Steph. They were downright horrible, and only Doc's penchant for giving vets nearly unlimited chances kept them in the rotation at all.

Given what Hudson has shown as a rookie in preseason, maybe we should give him some time to develop and maybe by the end of the year he will be fine. meanwhile MD is doing well i think as a backup PG, esp with House playing the off guard (or switch their positions if you like, it doesn't matter).

Daniels is not very good, and far from a true PG. he's better than anything we have right now but that's not saying much. i'm not sure he's worth trying to clear a roster spot for. still i wouldn't mind AD overall.

humblebum · Post #18 » by **humblebum** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:49 pm

I tend to take the same view here as Guyclinch. For all the things that House brings to this team shooting, energy, confidence, professionalism, etc. he really hurts the team from the standpoint that he's not a natural PG (struggling to initiate offense or handle quick PG's defensively) and he's not physically capable at SG (he regularly get's abused by quicker, bigger SG's and can get smothered by longer and taller defenders as we've seen in the playoffs). So ideally House is your third guard off the bench. He's a situational sub but given the strength of Rondo-Ray and payroll constraints it's been difficult to find two backups at PG and SG that would force Eddie into that situational role. I'm not sure that Antonio Daniels is that guy either frankly and I doubt Hudson will assume that role this season so... it looks like we'll have to live with this as a weakness throughout the season. Which isn't too bad because we won a championship with this basic backup backcourt configuration.

ryaningf · Post #19 » by **ryaningf** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:57 pm

GuyClinch wrote:The real problem is House IMHO. Doc doesn't want to lose House's shooting. But really if you play him at off-guard your messing up the defense. So the guy pretty much HAS to play PG. Only if Doc and company decide to move out of the House era would we be able to solve our backup PG issue..

Hammer meet nail. The is absolutely correct, Pete. As long as House is on the team, we'll have no backup point guard. House's presence causes us to pair combo guards with him

gocelts · Post #20 » by **gocelts** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:15 am

House is an excellent situational back up guard....nothing more, nothing less. HIs contributions to the team are (and were) outstanding when he isnt forced to run the offense.

In my opinion, i dont think Doc and Danny love the idea of House being the 1st backup point, however, they realize that he is the best available based on their cap and roster situation right now and they know that the team will be OK the first half of the season. Anyone who watched the 1st and 2nd rounds of the 08 playoffs ought to know that House isnt Doc's favorite option off the bench.