RealGM

First of all: Hi guys! Im a big supporter of the Boston Celtics, I really like the way they play, the players they have, etc. Im routing for them this year again to win it all.
If you ask me, I say they are a better team than 2 years ago, when healthy, they are just "meshed-together" and they added some depht in Sheed and Marquis after a tough lost in Posey last summer.
But how about the other teams in the East? Everyone is talking about the Cavs and yeah, I have to agree that they have also improved their team on paper. They added Shaq, who is still good for a 14-9 season and draw some double teams. He is also a very good passer, which is a nice wheapon. They added Moon and A.Parker, who are both very intelligent players.
Still, somehow I have a feeling, that the are only the 3rd best team in the East. Somehow I don't think they are an enough deeo team. Of course they have LeBron, which makes up for alot, but I believe they are still one-dimensional a bit. Boston would beat them in a best of 7 series anytime, if healthy. I have absolutely no doubt about that.
But what I have doubts about are the Orlando Magic.
Ok, last year they were the 3rd best team in the East. Boston had injury problems, that's why they got eliminated and the Cavaliers just had really bad luck if you ask me. It was just really bad timing. They should have beaten the Magic. It was just not meant to be. Anyhow... This year, the Magic improved alot. They lost Turkoglu and got Carter in exchange, which is about the same value in my opinion. Then they added Bass, Barnes, Anderson and Jason Williams. Plus, Gortat has improved.
All in all, I must tell you that I fear only the Magic this season. Not even the Lakers or the Spurs. Well, maybe the Spurs as well a bit (who we will meet in the Finals )
Seriously, look at this lineup:

PF- Lewis / Bass / R.Anderson
SF- Pietrus / Barnes
C- Dwight / Gortat
SG-Carter / Reddick
PG-Nelson / J.Williams / A.Johnson

What are your thoughts on this? Who do you think is the Beast in the East? Or the 2nd Beast?

Celtics are the beasts of the east..Magic come in second..Cavs in third...I don't really like the Moon and Parker signings for Cleveland, and Marquis Daniels showed why yesterday...Orlando is better, but IMO we match up really well against them. their two best weapons are Carter and Dwight..we have Sheed and Perk who always do a great job defensively on Dwight, and Paul Pierce always steps his game up against All Stars like Carter...last year Lewis was a problem for us because we had Big Baby and Scal defending him, this year we will have Garnett on him..they also had Hedo, who always gave Pierce problems because of his size..Paul guards players like Carter alot better, than players like Hedo..even though Carter is better...
I still 'fear' (riiight..lol) the Lakers more than any other team in the league..but in the EAST, Orlando is probably the second best team...

Celtics, Magic, and Cavaliers fans will always pick their team as the #1. Outside of those groups however, I think it's pretty much a crapshoot as to how the Top 3 spots will be distributed. The talent level on all three teams is too close, so I think it will come down to external factors (injuries, chemistry, match-ups, luck, etc.) to determine the Final standings.

I disagree. Five of Orlando's top ten players are new to the team. Assuming chemistry comes quickly the Magic should be #3 in the East but I wouldn't put them on par with Boston or Cleveland just yet. I still feel like the Celtics would have beaten the Magic with Powe (not even KG). Now they are more "me" oriented with VC. Van Gundy is also known to wear on his players. Gortat and even Howard might start tuning-out SVG like they have in the past. Orlando will have a good season but come playoff time they will implode.

It's been discussed, debated and argued over all offseason. The consensus in the NBA this year is that the East has three great teams, all about about the same level. Boston, Cleveland and Orlando. Picking anyone of those as clearly superior or inferior is mostly opinion. However, I think in terms of moves, Boston went out and addressed their needs (a back up big who can spread the floor, and a wing player who can take the load off pierce and allen and even ru na little backup point) Meanwhile Cleveland and Orlando just went out and got big names.

hairybyrd wrote:I disagree. Five of Orlando's top ten players are new to the team.

So what? This talk about continuity and not making changes to maintain chemistry are a boring and overused misconception. Your team is a clear example how an overhaul during the summer can actually do something right.

Assuming chemistry comes quickly the Magic should be #3 in the East but I wouldn't put them on par with Boston or Cleveland just yet.

Because chemistry is an issue only the Magic have to deal with right? The Celtics and Cavaliers have made some significant additions in their own right, yet we can all just assume that their new players will make perfect fits

I take the Pre-season with a grain of salt, but if it is at all, any indication whatsoever of how the team is coming together so far, I think the Magic (7-0) are just fine (and so are the Celtics).

Now they are more "me" oriented with VC

Please, go on. I'd like to see what exactly you mean by that...

Gortat and even Howard might start tuning-out SVG like they have in the past.

I remember Howard calling out Stan for more touches etc. during the Playoffs, but I missed the part where either of them had any real falling out with Van Gundy. I don't recall any friction or any relationship problems SVG has had with these guys to warrant the concern that they will crumble anytime soon. Please educate us on this inside information you have.

Orlando will have a good season but come playoff time they will implode.

Lend me your crystal ball.

Settle down, Hilltop, I was just stating my opinion. Here's a more in-depth analysis since you asked:

We can agree to disagree on "continuity". It worked for Boston but I doubt it will work for Orlando. Remember, Rashard Lewis is suspended for the first 10 games so the Magic will likely run a bigger lineup in that time. Will they revert back to a running game? Who knows, but it's never good for a coach to impart two completely separate offensive philosophies in the first month of the season. Leave it to SVG.

I guarantee the Celtics additions, as you put it, are "perfect fits". Rasheed Wallace and Marquis Daniels have added a fifth element to this team. The Magic subs will be shi##ing their pants this year.

By calling Vince Carter "me-oriented" I mean that he admitted to not playing hard during his years in Toronto. Not playing hard and "team-oriented" are conflicting words so... His stats have always been great but that, to me, suggests he cares more about numbers than winning. You could probably come up with something to disagree but it came from the horses mouth: "I didn't play hard". I wish people quoted that like they do "Practice".

Howard was mad about not getting touches and ESPN played it up probably too much. The Gortat story is legit. Here's a link to your team's leading newspaper's sports blog that verifies the ish. http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports ... cking.html

"Orlando will implode" - Yeah, I said it. The Big O is the #3 team in the East and could even win 60 games. It doesn't matter, though, because the Celtics and Cavs are better and hungrier. The ONLY way Orlando has a shot at the title is with a #1 seed in the East. There is no way, I repeat, there is no way Orlando gets past Lebron AND the Celtics again - no freaking way. Plus, Van Gundy can't out-coach Mike Brown and Doc Rivers two years in a row with reloaded rosters.

Hey, only my opinion, and I respect yours. Here's a few questions in return:

How will the Lewis suspension affect the team? In what ways does VC help the team? Between BOS, CLE and ORL which team has the best starting 5? Best bench?

I definitely believe we're the beast of the East. Like I said previously, I don't see how the Cavs will be able to beat the Celtics on opening night. After the way we went out last season(due to injuries), the Celtics will come out rejuvenated and hungry. I think we'll start the season the same way we started the past 2 seasons.

hairybyrd wrote:We can agree to disagree on "continuity". It worked for Boston but I doubt it will work for Orlando. Remember, Rashard Lewis is suspended for the first 10 games so the Magic will likely run a bigger lineup in that time. Will they revert back to a running game? Who knows, but it's never good for a coach to impart two completely separate offensive philosophies in the first month of the season. Leave it to SVG.

First of all, Orlando isn't the only team starting the season without a player due to either suspensions/injuries. It happens to teams every year and I don't see how that guarantees failure at all. If anything, the Magic lost Jameer Nelson (who was arguably the 2nd best player while he was playing) for more than half the year and they did just fine.

Second, I'm baffled by the inconsistencies in your post. Making major changes during a summer worked for Boston and for many other teams in the history of the NBA, but it just won't for Orlando for some bizarre reason? I think you're trying way too hard to shoot the Magic down man.

I guarantee the Celtics additions, as you put it, are "perfect fits". Rasheed Wallace and Marquis Daniels have added a fifth element to this team.

So like I said, you are basically assuming that Boston is immune to chemistry issues and gelling periods So much for being objective...

I guess since you are throwing out the lame and meaningless guarantees, I might as well guarantee that Vince Carter, Brandon Bass and Matt Barnes are "perfect fits" too. Why? Well, just because I said so. Your talk is as good as mine at this point.

By calling Vince Carter "me-oriented" I mean that he admitted to not playing hard during his years in Toronto. Not playing hard and "team-oriented" are conflicting words so... His stats have always been great but that, to me, suggests he cares more about numbers than winning. You could probably come up with something to disagree but it came from the horses mouth: "I didn't play hard". I wish people quoted that like they do "Practice".

The chatter about his days in Toronto are old news, and boring re-tellings. If his sandbagging in Toronto 6 years ago have made you dislike him as a player, then that's fine. But to say that the Magic have become "Me" oriented by acquiring him is pure ignorance. Anyone who has followed his career or watched the Nets in recent years would know that Vince Carter has grown by leaps and bounds as a individual player, a team player, and as a leader of a team. For you to judge the merits of the trade based purely on an isolated event in 2004 is ridiculous. It's like you purposely chose to blot out all the years he's played in New Jersey after that.

As far as his style of play is concerned, Vince has never had trouble with players around him. These stereotypes of Carter being a selfish player even on the court are uneducated to say the least. He's a good passer, he always looks to get his teammates involved, and he's one of the bigger reasons why the younger guys in Jersey (Lopez, Harris, etc.) have been able to come along the way they have.

Howard was mad about not getting touches and ESPN played it up probably too much. The Gortat story is legit. Here's a link to your team's leading newspaper's sports blog that verifies the ish. http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports ... cking.html

Actually the Gortat story isn't. Those were all misinterpreted and misleading translations of a quote from a Polish newspaper. Marcin admitted saying some things, but he denied there being any rift between he and Van Gundy. The two have a typical player-coach relationship. I don't see what sort of pseudo-drama you are trying to spin here. There are absolutely no concerns about the Magic crumbling because of friction between Stan and his players. No one's even talking about it. But hey, if you think there is reason to be worried, then go tell ESPN or NBA.com, they might want to hear your story.

"Orlando will implode" - Yeah, I said it. The Big O is the #3 team in the East and could even win 60 games. It doesn't matter, though, because the Celtics and Cavs are better and hungrier. The ONLY way Orlando has a shot at the title is with a #1 seed in the East. There is no way, I repeat, there is no way Orlando gets past Lebron AND the Celtics again - no freaking way. Plus, Van Gundy can't out-coach Mike Brown and Doc Rivers two years in a row with reloaded rosters.

He can't out-coach them? Yeah sure man. You do know that Stan Van Gundy is widely regarded as the best coach amongst the three mentioned though right?

Oh and that the Celtics and Cavs are better and hungrier, or that there is no way that Orlando gets past LeBron and the Celtics again is PURE opinion on your part. I respect your views man, but until you actually say something that can be backed by evidence, statistics, or anything of the sort, this is just useless homer babble without the slightest bit of objectivity. Saying "Orlando will implode", it's no different from me going on my high horse and saying "Boston is too old, Garnett's legs are shot, and they will collapse before the end of the season. Book it".

Based on trends and match-ups, Orlando has proven that it is capable of defeating either the Celtics or Cavaliers. And contrary to your belief, they didn't need a # seed to do it. Am I saying it will happen again? Nah, but I'm saying it can. And for you to say with definitive certainty that it won't, is laughable.

The Celtics look to be the beasts right now.

Honestly, Orlando just does not match up. We never, and I mean NEVER, had problems with them when KG and Powe were playing.No reason to think it would be any different with KG and Sheed. KG shuts Lewis down and we all know what Perk does. No worries.

I'm personally more worried about the Cavs. If the get their chemistry together they could be pretty damn good, and with Bron playing in the 4th quarter you just never know what can happen. Don't let their ECF meltdown of last year fool you - it was a matter of post matchup against Orlando. No more, no less. Has nothing to do with how they play against the Celtics. I give us the slight edge but the Cavs can be awfully good.

Alright Grant Hilltoper, I've been framing my argument around the Orland Magic's potential failure while you've directed most of your criticism at me, a 23 year old basketball fan on the RealGM board with a strong opinion. You called me "ignorant", "uneducated", and "pseudo-dramatic". Dude, don't come on the Celtics board and expect me not to be biased. The name is "hairy" like "larry" for a reason. I guess we'll have to wait to see who's better this year - the Celtics or the Magic - except it's the Celtics. Cavs are second. Hawks fourth.

hairybyrd wrote:Alright Grant Hilltoper, I've been framing my argument around the Orland Magic's potential failure while you've directed most of your criticism at me, a 23 year old basketball fan on the RealGM board with a strong opinion. You called me "ignorant", "uneducated", and "pseudo-dramatic". Dude, don't come on the Celtics board and expect me not to be biased. The name is "hairy" like "larry" for a reason. I guess we'll have to wait to see who's better this year - the Celtics or the Magic - except it's the Celtics. Cavs are second. Hawks fourth.

Actually, I've stayed completely on topic despite being kinda sarcastic (my bad). I was merely referring to some of your comments. I also said that the vast majority of stereotypes being perpetuated about Carter were 'uneducated', I did not mean you were. I have nothing against you personally, in fact I think you're a cool guy (albeit the fact that you are totally biased with the Celts ). And yes, I post here expecting all of you to pick Boston as #1 for obvious reasons. I just think that it is possible to maintain an objective discussion even amongst 'homers'.

I merely addressed some of the points and assumptions you made which I thought were incorrect. I mean, be biased towards your team all you want, but let's try to stick to facts and valid points too. I guess if you think the Celtics match-up well against the Magic, then that's a very valid point to make. I agree. But to fuss about their potential failure based on some failing relationship between SVG and Gortat/Howard, the fact that Orlando is now "Me" oriented with Vince, or the imaginary pitfall of making significant changes during the summer is just way off IMO.

Peace,

Grant Hilltoper