Ranking Ainges Draft Picks

[sam_I_am]

Thinking of Lester Hudson as another example of Ainge's amazing ability to get something with throwaway picks I thought I would try to rank his draft picks. This rank is a combination of how good the player is and to where he was drafted. I didn't really put much weight into injury issues which could knock down Big Al, Tony Allen, Leon Powe or other issues that would knock down Delonte West.

The only stunningly bad picks were Marcus Banks (even though was technically not drafted by Ainge) and Gerald Green (could have drafted David Lee among many others who turned out good). They also happen to be 2 of his highest draft picks. One could make a case that trading the chance to pick Branden Roy for Sebastien Telfair was equally awful. JR Giddens is also a guy who is showing me less after 2 years than Justin Reed did in his rookie season. Gabe Pruitt was a bust and Marc Gasol was still on the board at that time.

I ranked Glen Davis below Powe because of where he was drafted but based on this preseason and ignoring Powe's injury, Davis may have to move higher and possibly ahead of Gomes if he continues on his current trajectory.

Overrall he has done an incredible job.

The Great:
1. Rajon Rondo
2. Al Jefferson
3. Kendrick Perkins
4. Ryan Gomes
5. Leon Powe
6. Glen Davis

The Good:
7. Delonte West
8. Tony Allen
9. Lester Hudson (?)
10. Bill Walker

Deserve Mention given where drafted.
11. Justin Reed
12. Brandon Hunter
13. O. Greene

The Bad:
14. JR Giddens
15. Gabe Pruitt
16. Gerald Green
17. Marcus Banks (the worst!)

[Dogen]

I'd split The Good into two:

The OK:
Delonte
Tony Allen

& The Unknown:
JR Giddens
Lester Hudson

Otherwise pretty much in agreement, although I'm not really sure where O. Greene should go. He didn't pan out at all, yet given where he was drafted it's not a bust. Does he get the higher category over Gabe because he was drafted so much later in the second round?

[sam_I_am]

I'd split The Good into two:

The OK:
Delonte
Tony Allen

& The Unknown:
JR Giddens
Lester Hudson

Otherwise pretty much in agreement, although I'm not really sure where O. Greene should go. He didn't pan out at all, yet given where he was drafted it's not a bust. Does he get the higher category over Gabe because he was drafted so much later in the second round?

That is exactly why I ranked him ahead of Giddens. Amir Johnson was on board when Ainge drafted O.Greene but due to promise felt he had to draft Greene. Otherwise, the fact Greene stuck around for 2 years made him a good pick even if he isn't a good NBA player.

Ainge believed Pruitt was a first round pick who came out a year too early. However, that turned out not to be the case. He was a bust. And guys like Marc Gasol, Ramon Sessions and Big Baby were still on the board.

I think Delonte and Allen were great picks. Sure, there were better guys on board like KMart or Varejao. But West was a starter on best regular season team last year and Allen really was an explosive player prior to his 2 knee injuries. There aren't that many guys drafted 24 that even last beyond rookie deals in NBA.

Speaking of great second round picks, it looks like the Spurs got themselves an Al Jefferson type potential all star PF in the second round pick in Dejuan Blair - with the same risks of injury and weight problems. Still, his drafting could mean more to their championship hopes than Richard Jefferson which is incredible for a #37 pick on a veteran team.

[Wolves2011]

Thinking of Lester Hudson as another example of Ainge's amazing ability to get something with throwaway picks I thought I would try to rank his draft picks. This rank is a combination of how good the player is and to where he was drafted. I didn't really put much weight into injury issues which could knock down Big Al, Tony Allen, Leon Powe or other issues that would knock down Delonte West.

The only stunningly bad picks were Marcus Banks (even though was technically not drafted by Ainge) and Gerald Green (could have drafted David Lee among many others who turned out good). They also happen to be 2 of his highest draft picks. One could make a case that trading the chance to pick Branden Roy for Sebastien Telfair was equally awful. JR Giddens is also a guy who is showing me less after 2 years than Justin Reed did in his rookie season. Gabe Pruitt was a bust and Marc Gasol was still on the board at that time.

I ranked Glen Davis below Powe because of where he was drafted but based on this preseason and ignoring Powe's injury, Davis may have to move higher and possibly ahead of Gomes if he continues on his current trajectory.

Overrall he has done an incredible job.

The Great:
1. Rajon Rondo
2. Al Jefferson
3. Kendrick Perkins
4. Ryan Gomes
5. Leon Powe
6. Glen Davis

The Good:
7. Delonte West
8. Tony Allen
9. Lester Hudson (?)
10. Bill Walker

Deserve Mention given where drafted.
11. Justin Reed
12. Brandon Hunter
13. O. Greene

The Bad:
14. JR Giddens
15. Gabe Pruitt
16. Gerald Green
17. Marcus Banks (the worst!)

West has to be better GREAT!

We didn't keep him because we traded him for Ray.

Last season he was a starter for Cleveland and played well for them. Why do you rank him lower than a Powe, Gomes or Davis?

Is it because the Celtics didn't get value for him?

We did, when we got Ray.

The other is Giddens. He hasn't played yet. What little I've seen in the pre-season looks. I'd say he was "undetermined".

[Celts17Pride]

Very nice summary sam_I_am.

Giddens, Hudson and Bill Walker are "undetermined" IMO.

What about Jeff Green pick to get Ray Allen?

[Celtics_Champs]

Very nice summary sam_I_am.

Giddens, Hudson and Bill Walker are "undetermined" IMO.

What about Jeff Green pick to get Ray Allen?

That jeff green pick was the sonics, ainge had nothing to do with it, it was already dealt.

[Bruiser]

I think both Delonte and Tony deserve more credit.
Delonte, one gritty player, is one of my favourites and Tony, when healthy was a hell of a player up to the shoulders.

[captain green]

didn't he have a couple pick while in phoenix?
I put west ahead of powe and davis though. Semih Erden on the deserve mention list(I've been following his progress and like what I am seeing.)
Also at 7.5 ppg I still think gerald green is not on the bad list.
And what about that junco kid kedrick something or other that was a bad pick in my mind.
overall damn good drafter though.

[ParticleMan]

agree about delonte and tony. without the injury/mental health issues (which nobody could have predicted) i think both those guys are quality rotation players. that's pretty impressive for a #24 and #25 pick. half those guys are usually out of the league in a few years.

also, i'd say Bill Walker and JR are both in the "deserve mention" category (or better yet in the undetermined category). not sure why walker gets more favoritism here. neither of them has done anything, but both have shown some flashes. walker was picked lower but that's because of his injury history and guess what, he's injured his knee again. so it was a gamble by ainge, which is fine, but the gamble has yet to pay off. i have no idea why JR would be lumped in with the other 3 "bad" guys. those guys showed nothing in 3+ years, while JR is already showing some progress after his 1st year. maybe not as much as we'd hope but he's not a total bust at this point.

[ParticleMan]

didn't he have a couple pick while in phoenix?
I put west ahead of powe and davis though. Semih Erden on the deserve mention list(I've been following his progress and like what I am seeing.)
Also at 7.5 ppg I still think gerald green is not on the bad list.
And what about that junco kid kedrick something or other that was a bad pick in my mind.
overall damn good drafter though.

kedrick brown wasn't ainge's pick, he was in the joe johnson/joe forte draft by wallace. which would have been an ok draft just for JJ... except of course wallace traded away JJ and kept the other two...

[Dirty Water]

I'm not ready to jump on the Lester Hudson bandwagon just yet. He has not played a regular season game. If I remember correctly Joe Forte had a great pre-season his rookie year. How'd that work out?

[ryaningf]

also, i'd say Bill Walker and JR are both in the "deserve mention" category (or better yet in the undetermined category). not sure why walker gets more favoritism here. neither of them has done anything, but both have shown some flashes. walker was picked lower but that's because of his injury history and guess what, he's injured his knee again. so it was a gamble by ainge, which is fine, but the gamble has yet to pay off. i have no idea why JR would be lumped in with the other 3 "bad" guys. those guys showed nothing in 3+ years, while JR is already showing some progress after his 1st year. maybe not as much as we'd hope but he's not a total bust at this point.

Well, I think JR has been pretty terrible in his career so far, and I'm even counting his 'improvement' this season; improvement which amounts to finally figuring out after a year that his chance at playing time boiled down to playing defense and moving himself and on the ball on offense. That took a year to figure out! Walker knew that before he came to the Cs--that's why he's ahead in everyone's rankings. He's got the mental part down pat.

Last night was a perfect example of why Giddens continues to be a bust on this team (put him on another team and maybe things turn out differently)--he can't score. He went scoreless in 20 minutes. I remember plays where he got the ball w/6 seconds on the shot clock and looked around like he had no idea what to do with the ball (create a shot JR!), or a play where somebody got him a nice look from 3 and JR messed it up by pump faking and then taking the shot...I mean, at almost every opportunity the kid plays with absolutely no feel on the offensive end. His offensive skills begin and end in iso situations...put him in any other situation and he looks like he just started balling a couple weeks ago...it's pathetic.

Now, his iso game is pretty good--he can create his own shot, and create shots for others. His first step is FANTASTIC. His defensive and rebounding instincts are great. His athleticism is off the charts. But can he put it together at his advanced age (this guy is what, 24 or 25 already?)...I'm just not seeing enough signs. A guy like Hudson, straight out of college, but already 25, looks like he belongs from day 1. Giddens plays with the BBIQ of a 19-year old, and he's 5 years older than that in actual years. Not good. He still doesn't look like he belongs...

[kevin_405]

Tony Allen , Bill Walker and Giddens are not nba ready , at best they are Dleaguers, they should be counted as bad picks..

[LongTimeFan]

I definately think the mental health issues are part of the equation. Part of what makes West or Allen so great is their passion for the game. Development of our picks depends very much on their mental health. Pruiit had the talent and size, but not the fire. Banks had the skills, but not the head.

The thiing DA is extremely good at, besides spotting talent, is spotting those that will continue to progress. Every year Perk gets better. His 9' 4 1/2" reach becomes more and more valuable.

This said, I think it is too early to judge Walker, Giddens and Hudson. I'd say all of them have the chance to become rotation players still. That would be a huge plus for where they were picked.

[Zin5]

West has to be better GREAT!

We didn't keep him because we traded him for Ray.

Last season he was a starter for Cleveland and played well for them. Why do you rank him lower than a Powe, Gomes or Davis?

Is it because the Celtics didn't get value for him?

We did, when we got Ray.

The other is Giddens. He hasn't played yet. What little I've seen in the pre-season looks. I'd say he was "undetermined".

You really need to start checking your facts. We moved West along with the much more valuable #5 pick for Ray in 2007. Delonte's nothing special, at all.

Also, I agree with whoever said to put West/Allen in the OK group and Giddens/Hudson in the unknown. Can we at least see Giddens and Hudson get some minutes in the season before we right them off as bad or good? Hudson hasn't shown anything yet, even in preseason. He's just getting attention right now for his passion.

[ryaningf]

Hudson hasn't shown anything yet, even in preseason. He's just getting attention right now for his passion.

I wouldn't agree with that at all. Hudson has shown he can score and defend in the preseason. He's shown he can create his shot off the dribble, and he's pretty adept at taking what the defense gives him and making them pay. If they lay off, he'll pop a 3. If they crowd him, he'll take them off the dribble, and get a midrange jumper, or finish at the rim with either hand. Yes, it's just preseason, but Hudson's shown he can score at the NBA level already. It's about learning the PG position with him.

I'd also disagree with what's getting him attention: it isn't passion (though he has some), it's inner confidence. After seeing wallflowers like Gabe Pruitt, or deer-in-the-headlights guys like Giddens, it's refreshing to see a guy that believes from day 1 that he belongs on an NBA court. That's what everybody notices when they see Hudson--he acts like he belongs.

[SonicYouth34]

Jefferson is #1 IMO. He's a 20-10 beast and by trading we got KG and a 'ship.

[Wolves2011]

West has to be better GREAT!

We didn't keep him because we traded him for Ray.

Last season he was a starter for Cleveland and played well for them. Why do you rank him lower than a Powe, Gomes or Davis?

Is it because the Celtics didn't get value for him?

We did, when we got Ray.

The other is Giddens. He hasn't played yet. What little I've seen in the pre-season looks. I'd say he was "undetermined".

You really need to start checking your facts. We moved West along with the much more valuable #5 pick for Ray in 2007. Delonte's nothing special, at all.

Also, I agree with whoever said to put West/Allen in the OK group and Giddens/Hudson in the unknown. Can we at least see Giddens and Hudson get some minutes in the season before we right them off as bad or good? Hudson hasn't shown anything yet, even in preseason. He's just getting attention right now for his passion.

He is a career 38% shooter from 3 point range. A very good defender.

His wins produced per berri are 6.4 making him 12th among all shooting guards.

Wins Produced for others on your list who had significant playing time last year.
rondo 18.3
Jefferson 6.1 - missed a 40% of season, so say about 10.0
Kendrick 5.0
Powe was 4.8
Tony 1.6 - also missed significant time.
Gomes 0.6
Davis was MINUS 2.5 [did better in latter part of season.]

I say west is better than you recognize.

He was a starter on the CAV's, who were an OK team....lol.....

[captain green]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/8913 ... all/page/2

an insight on his draft pick and such, I'm still looking into the phoenix thing and kedrick was wallace's pick not ainges like I said earlier.
edit{ drafted stephen jackson in 2nd round in 97 shawn marion in 99 1st round he was head coach so I don't know how much credit goes to him. but nice picks.}

[DarkAzcura]

Delonte is being muy underrated here now.

IMO Delonte West > Davis, Powe, Gomes, and Allen...Allen would be up here with Delonte if it weren't for his many knee injuries.


The Great/Good

1a. Jefferson
1b. Rondo
3. Perkins
4. West
5. Gomes
6. Davis/Powe (neither really separated from each other in terms of production..Powe never got a chance to show what he could do in an extended role like Davis did in the playoffs, though).

OK

Tony Allen

Tony had the skill and athletic ability to be number 3 on this list but unfortunately never came around (blaaah injuries).