Ive changed my way of thinking

[Hemingway]

Ok, so like many oh here I'm sure, I've always thought that the way to be a great team down the road was to at some point trade one of the big 3 to bring in a younger star. While this still is certainly a way to go, if the right deal comes along you take it, I've changed my way of thinking.

I think now we can just keep adding MLE guys and remain a top team for a long time. The two main reasons for this are ubunto/team play and the growth of Perk and Rondo. First, we have a great team concept. This is more evident now than ever as Sheed and MD have been able to fit in so easily. Second, Rondo is playing GREAT and Perk now looks to be a solid big for the rest of his career. Looking bac a few years it is really a surprise both of these guys have excelled so well. I am sure in no small part to the big 3.

So going forward, if we can add a player or 2 like MD or Sheed or Posey each year I think we will be all set. Sure age will catch up with us, but it will be one at a time. I don't foresee PP, RA, Sheed and KG all becoming ineffective at the same time.

So if we have the 1 and 5 spot locked up and 4 aging guys who can play for some time at least at the other 3, and keep MD and get someone else MLE I think we will be fine. At some point we do need another star but by the time the 4 oldtimers go offthe books we will be ender the cap to get someone.

[Havlicek17]

Because we are a championship caliber team and the way our salaries are structured, I believe this starting team stays together as is, into and possibly through the 2011/12 season. During that season Sheed, KG, and possibly Ray's contracts will be expiring. This is the first season where I think we could trade Ray as an expiring or do something else just as dramatic. We may package a combination of players to get another star. It'll depend on how competitive we are at that time. If we keep up the same level of play, then we'll go through the 2011/12 season in tact.

I expect we will resign Ray and Rondo at the end of this season. Ray's reduction in salary will allow us to sign Rondo and stay in the same salary range as a team. Ray gets 2 more years, and Sheed, KG, and Rays conracts will expire at the same time, at the end of the 2011/12 season. Paul and Perk will get new contracts when their current deals expire.

If we tried keeping the team in tact, at the beginning of the 2012/13 season, Sheed will be 38, Ray will be 37, KG will be 36, and Paul will be 35. For some prospective, this season Lidnsey Hunter is the oldest player in the NBA at 38, Shaq and Grant Hill are 37, and Jason Kidd is 36 (and just signed a new 3 year deal?).

In 2012/13, Paul should still be a very good player at 35 yrs old, we will have Rondo and Perk in their primes, and KG will likely still be around. That should be a pretty competitive starting unit, and maybe only one more star player from championship caliber. I expect we'll do something before the 2012/13 season starts to get us there. Between now and then, I am content to keep this team intact and enjoy the ride.

[Wolves2011]

Ok, so like many oh here I'm sure, I've always thought that the way to be a great team down the road was to at some point trade one of the big 3 to bring in a younger star. While this still is certainly a way to go, if the right deal comes along you take it, I've changed my way of thinking.

I think now we can just keep adding MLE guys and remain a top team for a long time. The two main reasons for this are ubunto/team play and the growth of Perk and Rondo. First, we have a great team concept. This is more evident now than ever as Sheed and MD have been able to fit in so easily. Second, Rondo is playing GREAT and Perk now looks to be a solid big for the rest of his career. Looking bac a few years it is really a surprise both of these guys have excelled so well. I am sure in no small part to the big 3.

So going forward, if we can add a player or 2 like MD or Sheed or Posey each year I think we will be all set. Sure age will catch up with us, but it will be one at a time. I don't foresee PP, RA, Sheed and KG all becoming ineffective at the same time.

So if we have the 1 and 5 spot locked up and 4 aging guys who can play for some time at least at the other 3, and keep MD and get someone else MLE I think we will be fine. At some point we do need another star but by the time the 4 oldtimers go offthe books we will be ender the cap to get someone.

If we can resign Ray for a "reasonable" amount and if we don't have injuries among our older players (it goes without saying that injuries are more prevalent as players get older), we are still forgetting last year.

Ainge would have liked to resign Posey for less money or shorter length of deal, or find someone else to replace him. He would have liked a better "big" than Miki Moore. Didn't work out.

We have had good signings this summer with MLE - Wallace and "discount" Daniels. But Wallace easily could have gone elsewhere, as McDyss and Hill and others have gone elsewhere when we wanted them. Even after our championship season, we were not "the destination" for older players chasing championships as we saw in the summer of 2008.

We rented Posey for a year then he wanted his "big payday". Daniels could be doing the same for next season. Daniels took a heavy discount to play here on his one year deal, because Danny couldn't work out a sign and trade for more money. I'm guessing Danny has to give Daniels the full MLE next season to have chance of keeping him. But thats just a guess.

The scenario you describe is a good one, but there are lots of "IF's":

1) health
2) guys like Ray resign for the price and length of contract we want
3) we get to sign the free agents we want at the price we want.

Seems a big "IFFY" to me.

[hairybyrd]

Hemingway, you made an interesting comment about "Ubuntu". As some of us know, ubuntu is an ethical concept that originated in Africa and emphasizes community. Doc adopted this ideology in 2007 after his father died and a few months after we acquired Allen and Garnett. I hadn't heard the word ubuntu in a long time until you mentioned it which makes me wonder if it's still a point of emphasis for this current group of Celtics. Doc, the Big 3, Daniels, House, Perk and Rasheed are no doubt team-oriented. And I would really like to say the same for Davis and Rondo but some of the stuff we're hearing lately makes me think twice about those guys' ubuntu-ness. Nothing too serious but definitely worth some consideration.

While the term, by nature, applies to every Celtic - ubuntu = community-mindedness - its really more about the Big 3 and Rivers. Everyone is important to the team's success but, let's face it, it's about reputation and these 3 alongside Rivers are the main cogs and have been for some time. That being said, I wonder if trading Allen, for example, would upset KG and/or Pierce and/or Rivers. If, at some point, Ainge wants to trade one of the Big 3 would he consult the other 2? Would their opinions matter?

The politics of ubuntu are pretty interesting and lead me to believe that this group might stay together by default. It's a tough call for Ainge because he certainly doesn't want to repeat the mistakes of the past and let personal loyalties get in the way of winning. He can avoid the tough decisions until the summer if he wants to but not for much longer.

[chakdaddy]

Yep.

Rebuild when the windows is closed.

Don't close or narrow the window just to get a head start on rebuilding!!

Use the MLE to help keep the window as open as possible for as long as possible;

Just try not to have MLE contracts on board after the Big 3 are gone. But if you do? Be patient and let them expire. No big deal.

[GuyClinch]

Nah. Your only saying that because our big 3 are still playing at an elite level. You need guys who can be the best players on the court to win a championship. You can't win with large amounts of quantity over quality in the NBA. Adding depth is all well and good but after a certain point it doesn't provide any signifcant advantage.

[Tenbomber]

My feeling is that all the potential expireings will sign on for less to finish out their career right here in Boston....

I mean why trade greatness?.....just take the $$$ difference in the contracts and sign other free agents to fill in the blanks as needed....

After tasteing the sweetness of being a champion in Boston, I'm sure all of these guys will want their numbers hoisted along with all the other Celtic greats!

So why even consider trading them?

We wouldn't ever have thought of trading Cousy, Russell, Heinson or Larry Bird and the rest of the big three of years past. Why would we do that now?

That would only serve to lessen the mystique of being a true Celtic great!

They will likely all retire together when their time is done anyway!... but they deserve the courtesy to decide for themselves when it's time.....they will know!

JMO....

[Gant]

My feeling is that all the potential expireings will sign on for less to finish out their career right here in Boston....

I mean why trade greatness?.....just take the $$$ difference in the contracts and sign other free agents to fill in the blanks as needed....

After tasteing the sweetness of being a champion in Boston, I'm sure all of these guys will want their numbers hoisted along with all the other celtic greats!

So why even consider trading them?

We wouldn't ever have have thought of trading Cousy, Russell, Heinson or Larry Bird and the rest of the big three of years past. Why would we do that now?

That would only lessen the mystique of being a true Celtic great!

JMO....

You have a good point but back in the 80's Danny Ainge strongly advised Red to trade Bird and McHale due to their deteriorating bodies. (Then Danny was the one that got dealt.)

Ainge will be ruthless if he thinks it will serve the team's purposes.

[vct33]

I still support trading Ray Allen this season if the right deal comes along. I believe Ainge is smart enough to explore every opportunity. Having said that, if Ray is not traded, he absolutely must be re-signed. And frankly, the more we pay him on the next contract the better off we'll be. As long as we keep contending, the team should be able to afford some extra luxury tax. While I don't think Ray is a $12M player, that would be a perfect number for his extension.

[Wolves2011]

Can we use the MLE to replace Ray, Rondo and Daniels, all three at the same time? Next season we could be losing three important rotation players and only have one MLE to replace them.

Could Daniels take Ray's position? Don't think so. Then we must resign Ray, irrespective of Ray's contract demands. [I'd have traded Ray last summer.]

Same for Rondo. We have to resign him. We have no way to replace him, if we lose him.

If we want to keep Daniels next season, he probably gets most or all of the MLE.

If we don't keep Ray and Rondo, we have to rebuild. We can't replace them, and won't win with just KG and Pierce.

[GuyClinch]

DA will of course bring Ray back if he signs for a low price. But again your better off with one great player then two 10 million dollar guys, IMHO. So honestly I think the big 3 is going to be broken up.

[Tenbomber]

It will be interesting to see if modern money matters and cap limitations put an end to past Celtic tradition...and if team loyalty means more than money to this generation of Celtic greats....

I'm thinking that this factor is still what seperates this organization from all the rest....and I would be both surprised and disappointed if any of the present "big three" were to be traded away or just not resigned....

I think that tradition still matters to most of us "old folks"!

[Hemingway]

We can probably just resign Ray and lock up MD long term with out MLE(or part of it) and call it an offseason. There will aways be a vet min vet to add if need be.

[PPAW4Life]

I think, baring injuries, we can keep the Big 3 for four more years and contend at a high level.

The reason being, is Paul Pierce can still play at an elite level and will do so for the next 3 or 4 years.

No, I am not saying we want Paul to carry us, but because of his work ethic each off season, he's able to keep his aging body from degrading at a faster rate. Paul will still have the ability to dominate the game on the offensive end for the next 3 to 4 years, and we can go to that well when we need to.

If the injury bug starts to hit us early in the next 3 or 4 year window, then its time to break up the Big 3.

[GuyClinch]

I love Paul Pierce - but come on. Your not going to win championships with your main guy as a 35 year old swingman. Ray Allen with be 38. Ainge is going to break it up or sign guys like Ray cheap enough that we can bring in another elite player.