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The Celtics right now, play a 9 man rotation:

PG: Rondo/Eddie House: 47.9 mpg / 17.4 ppg / 4.7 rpg / 9.6 apg

Wing: Pierce /Ray/Marquis: 91 mpg / 40.4 ppg / 9.5 rpg / 10.2 apg

PF/C: KG / Perk / Rasheed / Sheldon: 94.3 mpg / 40 ppg / 23.5 rpg / 5.1 apg

The remaining 6.2 mpg goes to the scrubs.

Nocioni is basically a 3 point shooting PF, who can't defend PF's on the block.
Right now the Celtics have Brian Scalabrine, who is a 3 point shooting PF, who can't defend PF's on the block. The Celtics also have Rasheed Wallace, who can shoot 3's, and DEFEND.

Nocioni is ineffective at the 3 because he is too slow to guard anyone other than the
occasional banger 3, and too slow to take anyone off the dribble.

When you look at the Celtics composition, they have a luxury with Glen Davis not in the
strong PF/C rotation, but Davis might only help on days when other players are off,
like when Rasheed was off against Indiana.

What the Celtics do have are two PG's who can't be counted on to score;
Rondo because, well, his jumper isn't there yet, so he must rely on craftiness and opportunity.
Eddie doesn't always have it going, plus some defenses nullify him.

So, a third PG who can shoot would be great. Lester may turn out to be that player.
But there is a lot more room on the Active 12 for a third PG that can shoot than there is for Nocioni.

As far as wing, although a full sized SF would be great, Nocioni is not a full sized SF.
Nocioni is an undersized PF, who happens to be able to shoot the 3 point ball. But Nocioni can't defend on the block against other PF's, and he can't defend mobile SF's without fouling every two seconds.

So, my conclusion is that Nocioni adds little to the Celtics. The Celtics would be better off getting a true SF, or true SG, or true PG; than Nocioni.

You're right Jammer and you did it without mentioning that he makes too much money relative his prospective role.

Danny's smart enough to realize that his assets won't mature in value until January. Until then, I think we stand pat and see what our needs really are coming down the stretch.

Nocioni is a SF. He is a very good defender and can hit the 3 ball, so he is a perfect fit here. With him we would finally get a back up SF for PP. That would allow us to rest PP and Ray Allen more...

He is one of the most gritty defenders in the league. He did a great job on Durant against OKC, so he is perfect for defending bigger SF`s like Durant, Butler, James...and that is exactly what we need...

His contract is quite big but it still wouldn`t have huge impact on our mid-term salary cap situation...

The only question is can we get something better for 7 million expiring contracts before the deadline? I would assume, no...

Nocioni is a SF which we don't have. Daniels about 6'5" and he can't shoot outside of 15 ft. Nocioni can rebound and score and he is a good defender in a good team system he struggles as a lone wolf on a crappy defensive team. Basically he is an Argentinian version of Posey. This team has a hole between Pierce and KG it may have to fill to win a championship.

Look at it this way who is Ray guarding when we play the Lakers? Kobe or Ron? For 38 mins? Really?

Noc will get in there and bang guys around at the 3 - I do like the Posey comparison. Truthfully Posey was too slow to defend Kobe as well but at least he gave Paul a rest and would be physical. We could use the same out of Noc.

Honestly I wish Ainge had taken a different course - not resigned Rondo and instead went after Joe Johnson. But he went for it all this year. So this is the kind of move one might make under those circumstances.

Pete

thebirdman wrote:Nocioni is a SF. He is a very good defender and can hit the 3 ball, so he is a perfect fit here. With him we would finally get a back up SF for PP. That would allow us to rest PP and Ray Allen more...

He is one of the most gritty defenders in the league. He did a great job on Durant against OKC, so he is perfect for defending bigger SF`s like Durant, Butler, James...and that is exactly what we need...

His contract is quite big but it still wouldn`t have huge impact on our mid-term salary cap situation...

The only question is can we get something better for 7 million expiring contracts before the deadline? I would assume, no...

^^^^^^^^^^^ That is a better statement,Were not getting him because of the money but the guy is a team defense guy and we have one of the best schemes adding him would help. We also do not need another SG. Look I think we can get just a little more out of our expiring contracts but saying he can't guard sf is silly I've watched him guard big and small and most the times it's the smalls.
So all in all I concur don't get him but not for your reasons.

thebirdman wrote:Nocioni is a SF. He is a very good defender and can hit the 3 ball, so he is a perfect fit here. With him we would finally get a back up SF for PP. That would allow us to rest PP and Ray Allen more...

He is one of the most gritty defenders in the league. He did a great job on Durant against OKC, so he is perfect for defending bigger SF`s like Durant, Butler, James...and that is exactly what we need...

His contract is quite big but it still wouldn`t have huge impact on our mid-term salary cap situation...

The only question is can we get something better for 7 million expiring contracts before the deadline? I would assume, no...

Great post...I wanted to add something but I can't, you covered it all...

The issue is that Doc only trusts 3 wing players, and if one guy goes down Scalabrine is our primary backup small forward. NOT GOOD.

I just don't think Noc and his contract are the answer. Doubt he'd even sniff a minute of 4 on this team and that wouldn't be the reason why we got him.

We need a backup SF, one who can preferably play the 4 in a smaller lineup, and we need that guy badly. I'd prefer a more athletic guy to do the job, but Noc. wouldn't be the worst dude to do the job.

Personally I'm hoping that Ray gets dealt for some younger talent and expirings, and Danny finds a way to get his hands on Rudy Gay. Ray is a great player, but Doc is just going to run him into the ground again. He can't help himself, so why not get somebody younger? Pay Ray 8 million a year, or deal him away, get another 2 guard who is younger, and in a separate move pull Gay into the mix. How exactly that would be pulled off, I don't know, but Ray just isn't doing it for me. Doc is making sure of that.

he makes plenty of sense for this team. He plays a lot bigger than 6 7 . He can hit the outside shot, rebound and defend in the paint. sure, he gives up a little speed on the perimeter but he'll punish the other guy inside. his stats are down a bit this year so he appears to be on the decline. the ONLY reason I might not go after him is that like posey he makes too much compared to where he is in his career. But he would be an instant upgrade to our bench. Of course we lose the flexibility of making a deal at the trading deadline but there is no question in my mind that he wouldhelp us.

I think Boston wants him they just don't want him in Nov when they are trying to work 3 or 4 other piecesin . They may want to see what else pans out on those contracts of course both SAC and PHI want to do it as soon as possible because SAC wants the savings and PHI just wants Dalembert off of their team.

Noci makes a ton of sense! It really comes down to:
~A) Money. Are the owners willing to pay a bit more for the next 2 years? This year doesn't matter as we are already paying Tony and Scal. If money is a concern can a deal be worked about about not using the MLE or LLE down the road to make up for Noci? Then you have to figure who might be available and manage the risk.

~B) Who else will be out there? Can we do better before the deadline? Danny will have a good idea of who might be there.

I think he makes enough sense to make a trade for right now.

If the Celtics did do this trade, using sully's logic of a matchup for Ron Artest or
Lamar Odom (when played at SF);

I think the Celtics would have to get Sacramento's 2010 second round pick, unrestricted;
plus one more second round pick, to justify taking on Nocioni's contract thru 2012.

Now Jammer this isn't simply Artest, but LeBron, Lewis, Jackson and Wallace, Granger, the entire freaking Hawks team, and so on. But more importantly I bet you would think Battier at 31 years old and owed 7 and 7.5 mil for this year and next would be a great deal for Boston right? I would. Nocioni has identical numbers and is a year younger.

sully00 wrote:Now Jammer this isn't simply Artest, but LeBron, Lewis, Jackson and Wallace, Granger, the entire freaking Hawks team, and so on. But more importantly I bet you would think Battier at 31 years old and owed 7 and 7.5 mil for this year and next would be a great deal for Boston right? I would. Nocioni has identical numbers and is a year younger.

Well put...not sure why everyone is so against this potential deal...

I would do it in a heartbeat he fits our needs perfectly and u gotta love a gritty euro.

hiphop1 wrote:I would do it in a heartbeat he fits our needs perfectly and u gotta love a gritty euro.

Isn't he Argentinian? So.....South America?

Oooppps my bad. A gritty foregin player

hiphop1 wrote:Oooppps my bad. A gritty foregin player

lol...sowwy....wasn't being a prick.....just get tired of all foreign players being referred to as Euro's.....Bogut...he's a nice Euro Big!!!!!