Top 5 Centers - Does Perk make the cut?

hairybyrd · Post #1 » by **hairybyrd** » Wed Dec 2, 2009 7:07 am

It's tough to even know what constitutes a center in today's NBA. Players like Chris Bosh, Tim Duncan and Amare Stoudemire log a lot of minutes at center, but they're not really centers. Excluding tweeners and injured players (Yao and Shaq), rank your top 5 centers - does Perk make it?

1. Howard
2. Bynum
3. Big Al
4. Perk
5. Oden

Nene, Horford, Kaman, Haywood, Okafor, Marc Gasol...it's close. Howard @ #1 is the only certainty and the difference between 2-5, even 2-10, whatever that may be, isn't much.

Who's in your 5?

SonicYouth34 · Post #2 » by **SonicYouth34** » Wed Dec 2, 2009 7:22 am

I refuse to put Oden on that list. He hasn't show very much at all. Guys like Horford, Nene, Okafor have shown more. On another note, Jefferson is a PF. Like Amare, he is forced to play center.

1. Yao (when healthy)
2. Howard (poor offense)
3. Perk (beast)
4. Bynum (hate putting him on here, but he's been playing well this year)
5. Kaman (when healthy)

Roscoe Sheed · Post #3 » by **Roscoe Sheed** » Wed Dec 2, 2009 7:27 am

SInce Duncan has played center for the past five seasons or so, I'd say he is the best center in the NBA, so here is my list (with all healthy)

1. Duncan

2. Yao

3. Howard

4. Amare

5.Al Jefferson

6. Kaman

7. Bynum

8. Perkins (although he plays very well against Bynum)

stiles21 · Post #4 » by **stiles21** » Wed Dec 2, 2009 7:38 am

These "Top Centers in the league" topics always just turn into a big debate over which players are Centers and which players are Power Fowards.

If not top 5, Perk is top 10.

campybatman · Post #5 » by **campybatman** » Wed Dec 2, 2009 9:28 am

stiles21 wrote:These "Top Centers in the league" topics always just turn into a big debate over which players are Centers and which players are Power Fowards.

Ditto.

First tier

1. Yao
2. B. Lopez
3. Bogut
4. Bynum
5. M. Gasol

Second tier

Camby
Kaman
Biedrins
Chandler
Haywood
Perkins
Dalembert
Przybilla
B. Miller
Ilgauskas
S. O'Neal
Krstic
Dampier

Still raw

Oden
Hawes
Hibbert
Jordan
Thabeet
R. Lopez

Captain_Caveman · Post #6 » by **Captain_Caveman** » Wed Dec 2, 2009 10:54 am

Yao > Howard is a jaw-dropper.

Cyclical · Post #7 » by **Cyclical** » Wed Dec 2, 2009 11:02 am

Defensively, yes, top 5; offensively he leaves a bit to be desired - not half as good as a guy like Lopez for instance. Still, for our team he fits like a glove.

BakersDozen · Post #8 » by **BakersDozen** » Wed Dec 2, 2009 12:50 pm

Marc Gasol puts up some impressive stats but I wonder how he would look on a title contender... I dont know if Perk is top 5,but top 10 absolutely.... and a steal at his current contract.

Wolves2011 · Post #9 » by **Wolves2011** » Wed Dec 2, 2009 1:11 pm

Highest adjusted plus minus for centers last season

[Note: they were the only centers ranked in the top 50 players in the NBA last season for adjusted plus minus.]

Surprised not to see Howard, Duncan, Brook Lopez among others. Very surprised to see Nene on the list and never expected him to top the list.

1) Nene 9.15
2) Yao 7.46
3) Pau Gasol 6.04
4) Al Jefferson 5.04

Leesdoinit · Post #10 » by **Leesdoinit** » Wed Dec 2, 2009 2:16 pm

Plain and simple Brook Lopez hands down best pure center in the NBA, I wish the C's had him. I love everything about Perk and what hes made himself into.(work Ethic) but Lopez is going to be a monster he has it all.

EJay33 · Post #11 » by **EJay33** » Wed Dec 2, 2009 2:27 pm

Define who is a center and who is a PF. Even if you call a lot of people PFs, Perk still isn't top 5.

EJay33 · Post #12 » by **EJay33** » Wed Dec 2, 2009 2:31 pm

Leesdoinit wrote:Plain and simple Brook Lopez hands down best pure center in the NBA, I wish the C's had him. I love everything about Perk and what hes made himself into.(work Ethic) but Lopez is going to be a monster he has it all.

Maybe in the Fantasy Game but this is real life we're talking about. At least I think it is. Go check out Brook Lopez' game log for this season and check out his lines for the two games he's played against Orlando.. Yeah.. Kind of hard to rank Brook over Dwight after looking at those two data points. Also, his team is 0-17. You're ready to rank him as the best center in the NBA? You sure you didn't think this was the Fantasy Basketball Board?

He is definitely good, but he needs to lay off the jumpers and get mean..Getting Devin back should help, but he's playing more like Raef LaFrentz out there than like Dwight Howard and it's not helping his team win games.

Wolves2011 · Post #13 » by **Wolves2011** » Wed Dec 2, 2009 2:31 pm

Centers Ranked by NBA Efficiency Rating for last season.

1 Dwight Howard , ORL 27.0
2 Al Jefferson MIN 25.14
3 Ming Yao , HOU 23.8
4 Andris Biedrins , GSW 20.58
5 Shaquille O'Neal , PHX 20.56
6 Marcus Camby , LAC 20.26
7 Nene Hilario , DEN 19.42
8 Al Horford , ATL 18.91
9 Mehmet Okur , UTA 18.88
10 Emeka Okafor , CHA 18.49
11 Andrew Bynum , LAL 18.44
12 Andrew Bogut , MIL 18.36
13 Brook Lopez , NJN 17.39
14 Brad Miller , CHI-SAC 17.11
15 Marc Gasol , MEM 15.87
16 Rasheed Wallace , DET 15.52
17 Chris Kaman , LAC 15.36
18 Zydrunas Ilgauskas , CLE 15.34
19 Jermaine O'Neal , MIA-TOR 15.13
20 Andrea Bargnani , TOR 14.56
21 Kendrick Perkins , BOS 14.53
22 Tyson Chandler , NOH 14.09
23 Brendan Haywood , WAS 13.83
24 Joakim Noah , CHI 13.78
25 Anderson Varejao , CLE 13.42

JR Hawks · Post #14 » by **JR Hawks** » Wed Dec 2, 2009 2:41 pm

Wolves2011 wrote:Centers Ranked by NBA Efficiency Rating for last season.

1 Dwight Howard , ORL 27.0
2 Al Jefferson MIN 25.14
3 Ming Yao , HOU 23.8
4 Andris Biedrins , GSW 20.58
5 Shaquille O'Neal , PHX 20.56
6 Marcus Camby , LAC 20.26
7 Nene Hilario , DEN 19.42
8 Al Horford , ATL 18.91
9 Mehmet Okur , UTA 18.88
10 Emeka Okafor , CHA 18.49
11 Andrew Bynum , LAL 18.44
12 Andrew Bogut , MIL 18.36
13 Brook Lopez , NJN 17.39
14 Brad Miller , CHI-SAC 17.11
15 Marc Gasol , MEM 15.87
16 Rasheed Wallace , DET 15.52
17 Chris Kaman , LAC 15.36
18 Zydrunas Ilgauskas , CLE 15.34
19 Jermaine O'Neal , MIA-TOR 15.13
20 Andrea Bargnani , TOR 14.56
21 Kendrick Perkins , BOS 14.53
22 Tyson Chandler , NOH 14.09
23 Brendan Haywood , WAS 13.83
24 Joakim Noah , CHI 13.78
25 Anderson Varejao , CLE 13.42

That list is proof why effeciency rating is junk. Perk is better than 10 or more of the players in front of him.

Wolves2011 · Post #15 » by **Wolves2011** » Wed Dec 2, 2009 3:09 pm

Perkins is playing much better this year... but his adjusted plus minus isn't "top notch" either.

Perkins is a good defensive player who is just starting to improve his offense and rebounding. He should be averaging at least 10 rebounds a game.

Celtics adjusted plus minus for last 3 years plus playoffs....

2009-10 - still early...

rondo - plus 16.03
Ray - plus 11.82
House - plus 5.96
Williams - plus 2.20
-----------------
Wallace - minus 0.22
Perkins - minus 0.48
KG - - minus 7.71
Pierce minus 9.36
Daniels minus 10.36

00000000000000000000000000000000

2009 playoffs

Ray - plus 8.23
Rondo - plus 4.61
--------------------------
House - minus 1.44
Scalabrine - minus 1.47
Pierce - minus 2.03
Davis - minus 3.32
Tony - minus 4.93
Moore - minus 6.04
Perkins - minus 9.50

000000000000000000000000000000000000

2008-09 full season

Ray - plus 13.91
Rondo - plus 6.81
KG - plus 4.27
Tony - plus 3.36
House - plus 3.16
Pierce - plus 1.42
Powe - plus 1.15
-----------------------------
moor - minus 4.69
Davis - minus 7.97
Perkins - minus 11.53

0000000000000000000000000000000000

2008 playoffs

KG - plus 9.96
Pierce - plus 7.82
Tony - plus 3.64
Cassell - plus 3.40
Ray - plus 0.94
House - plus 0.85
------------------------------
Perkins - minus 3.31
Powe - minus 3.46
Rondo - minus 4.93
Posey - minus 7.47
Davis - minus 8.44
Brown - minus 13.85

0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

2007-08 full season

KG - plus 9.95
Pierce - plus 9.15
Tony - plus 4.51
House - plus 3.02
Rondo - plus 2.68
Cassell - plus 0.78
--------------------------------
Powe - minus 0.16
Ray - minus 0.94
Perkins - minus 3.37
Davis - minus 3.95
Posey - minus 7.49

00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

if you want to know more about adjusted plus minus ..... see this posting...

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=962909

MyInsatiableOne · Post #16 » by **MyInsatiableOne** » Wed Dec 2, 2009 3:28 pm

^dude...just stop...

Leesdoinit · Post #17 » by **Leesdoinit** » Wed Dec 2, 2009 3:30 pm

Godmoney wrote:
Leesdoinit wrote:Plain and simple Brook Lopez hands down best pure center in the NBA, I wish the C's had him. I love everything about Perk and what hes made himself into.(work Ethic) but Lopez is going to be a monster he has it all.

Maybe in the Fantasy Game but this is real life we're talking about. At least I think it is. Go check out Brook Lopez' game log for this season and check out his lines for the two games he's played against Orlando.. Yeah.. Kind of hard to rank Brook over Dwight after looking at those two data points. Also, his team is 0-17. You're ready to rank him as the best center in the NBA? You sure you didn't think this was the Fantasy Basketball Board?

He is definitely good, but he needs to lay off the jumpers and get mean..Getting Devin back should help, but he's playing more like Raef LaFrentz out there than like Dwight Howard and it's not helping his team win games.

I meant to say he will be the best pure center I believe within the next year or so, look at his progress in just his college to rookie year. he has size, footwork good outside shot, He's already a better post up center than howard is and hes only in his second year. it's unfair to rank him against howard because of maturity but wait till he realizes that he is just as much as a man as Howard, This whole topic is debatable but if your looking at pure centers he has to be at least looked at as apure center with huge upside. If he starts to dominate inside and still can take big men outside you will see his real value. But for now you are correct, however if Im was building a upstart team today Id take a fler on him and pay less for him then howard and build my team the old school way. Howard is a rebounder dunker thats very athletic. he loks better at his position because there are no more pure centers in the NBA . What do you think Howard would have done against Ewing or even Duncan in his prime?

Wolves2011 · Post #18 » by **Wolves2011** » Wed Dec 2, 2009 3:46 pm

MyInsatiableOne wrote:^dude...just stop...

Stop what?

Presenting factual information?

It sometimes helps to look at objective factors and not just "feelings" about players...

CeltsfanSinceBirth · Post #19 » by **CeltsfanSinceBirth** » Wed Dec 2, 2009 3:54 pm

Hey Wolves, since you're so good at compiling stats, can you do some research and look up Eddie House's FG and 3PT % when the Celts are up by 10 or more points in the 4th? The guy doesn't miss during garbage time. He's like the Michael Jordan of garbage time. I'm almost positive the guy shoots over 60%. Thanks.

SichtingLives · Post #20 » by **SichtingLives** » Wed Dec 2, 2009 4:05 pm

Wolves2011 wrote:
MyInsatiableOne wrote:^dude...just stop...

Stop what?

Presenting factual information?

It sometimes helps to look at objective factors and not just "feelings" about players...

Hey Wolves, nice try. Form an opinion or stfu. You're the only guy I see here who is entirely dependent upon other people's words and calculations as a veil for your own.

I can't WAIT until you get banned. This place really was more enjoyable when you took your vacation.

Not even trying to be a dick, just presenting some factual information.