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Still a big question mark. Even when scoring 16 points he's moving gingerly. His feet aren't moving very well on defense and in general he still looks hurt and very tentative out there.

Is his back still stiff from the Orlando fall? Maybe, though he said he only bumped his head in the interview following the game.

Is the bruised thigh still an issue? Could be. Or, it could be more than a bruise.

Is the old knee fully recovered, as Danny keeps saying? Maybe. If so, will it ever be the same as only a year ago? Not looking like it so far.

We all know his health, like last year , is the difference between a ring and a 2nd round exit. We all know he has a ton of mileage on his body. I'm just a little worried. You?

You know what will set the elephant in the room free? The truth, don't worry about it.

Edit: Ok wasn't trying to sound too smug here, but seriously, Paul Pierce out of the line up is huge. Yeah KG might be swore from the last couple of dings, but Paul Pierce is huge.

No way am I going to **** all over KG or Ray. I have too much respect for them and their HOF careers. However, I will say a couple of things:

1. The only guy who has stepped it up in P's absence has been Rondo.
2. Whether it is the old injury and/or one of the new ones, and/or too miles on the car, KG is not the same KG who was Paul's 1B and the heart and soul of our D during our championsip year...and I am wondering if he ever will be again. He had multiple opportunities to dominate tonight and last night against bad teams, and instead he was tentative on O and not aggressive enuf even on D - his superstar signature.
3. And Ray is not the same Ray who was Paul's 1C during our championship year. He is a liability when
he handles the ball, and isn't pumping in the clutch daggers as often as he used to. He too had a chance to dominate last night and tonight, and he did not because he cannot.

As far as this year's team is concerned, Paul remains our best player, and Rajon is rapidly becoming his 1B. If Paul had played last night and tonight, we more than likely win those games going away -
because RR would have had our clutch closer and most well rounded and best player running next to him. We can still win Number 18, but we will be led this time by Paul as the man and Rondo as our next best player. KG and Ray are still damn good but they will be supporting our new big 2. Binkies of KG and Ray will for sure disagree with me, but what I am saying is the hard cold truth.

And the fact that Paul has had a few "off games" mixed with a few brilliant ones and a few average ones during the 12 games before he got hurt is not relevant to what I stated above. During the first 15 games of the year, he was playing All Pro level, and considering all 27 games he has played, he is shooting 48% from everywhere and also from 3, playing great D, and rebounding/playmaking very well
His injury cost us the last 2 games. I have heard people say how irreplaceable KG is. Well the real truth is that the Truth is the most valuable player on this team, and we better get him back soon and healthy, or we are really going to be screwed.

I will close by saying that Rondo is improving exponentially in front of our eyes. Given the current state of affairs with KG and Ray, Rondo is becoming the second most irreplaceable person the team. Danny, get us a solid 3 to back up Paull (TA is ok but he cannot frigging shoot a J and Quis is not good enuf), and get us a vet point who can really back up RR.

Scalamental wrote:You know what will set the elephant in the room free? The truth, don't worry about it.

Edit: Ok wasn't trying to sound too smug here, but seriously, Paul Pierce out of the line up is huge. Yeah KG might be swore from the last couple of dings, but Paul Pierce is huge.

+10000

The Truth has been and always will be "the man" on this team. Others will disagree, but he is without question the most important player on this team.

^ so KG is not even 70% of himself and you somehow spin it like PP is more valuable then him? and get off Ray, he did what he could. yeah he missed that last three, but he averaged 40 mpg through our last four games. he was just tired, it happens to you when you're 34 and have 13 seasons under your belt.

Tirion wrote:^ so KG is not even 70% of himself and you somehow spin it like PP is more valuable then him? and get off Ray, he did what he could. yeah he missed that last three, but he averaged 40 mpg through our last four games. he was just tired, it happens to you when you're 34 and have 13 seasons under your belt.

Go right ahead and underestimate Paul (this has been going on forever), and make excuses for KG and Ray. KG and Ray used to be Paul's 1A and 1B. Regardless of the reason they are not any longer, I am afraid they never will be again. They are now 2s, and Rondo is becoming the 1A.

exculpatory wrote:

Tirion wrote:^ so KG is not even 70% of himself and you somehow spin it like PP is more valuable then him? and get off Ray, he did what he could. yeah he missed that last three, but he averaged 40 mpg through our last four games. he was just tired, it happens to you when you're 34 and have 13 seasons under your belt.

Go right ahead and underestimate Paul (this has been going on forever), and make excuses for KG and Ray. KG and Ray used to be Paul's 1A and 1B. Regardless of the reason they are not any longer, I am afraid they never will be again. They are now 2s, and Rondo is becoming the 1A.

Where exactly in my comment I underestimated PP? You're the one coming here and spittin' that "PP vs. KG and Ray" BS. Again what does Ray Allen have to do with this loss? I don't see you rippin' Perk for looking like a complete stiff the last two games. Or Rondo's defense on Monta for that matter. Or our bench stinkin' it up for a 1312th time. Or Doc being outcoached by Nellie. Somehow it's all KG's and Ray's fault.

Guys, this thread is not about Paul vs. KG, nor is it about tonight's or last night's loss. It's about the long run and whether KG is truly back. Will he be effective enough for another ring.

No panic. I'm (very) cautiously optimistic. Just wanted to get a temperature from other board members.

Cyclical wrote:Still a big question mark. Even when scoring 16 points he's moving gingerly. His feet aren't moving very well on defense and in general he still looks hurt and very tentative out there.

Is his back still stiff from the Orlando fall? Maybe, though he said he only bumped his head in the interview following the game.

Is the bruised thigh still an issue? Could be. Or, it could be more than a bruise.

Is the old knee fully recovered, as Danny keeps saying? Maybe. If so, will it ever be the same as only a year ago? Not looking like it so far.

We all know his health, like last year , is the difference between a ring and a 2nd round exit. We all know he has a ton of mileage on his body. I'm just a little worried. You?

Did you get a good look at the special knee brace that he wears? It was evident in the Orlando
game when he was walking to the Celtic bench in a low shot where his pants raised up,
wraps around his knee and goes up his thigh. It looked like it's synthetic elastic or something
but it's not something that a healthy person would wear around their knee.

Definately a lot more support than the Celtics ever admitted that the
'ole man needed.

Check out the brace that KG wears, and tell me that he's healthy.
Someone's not coming clean on this one.
He obviously NEEDS the additional reinforcement/support.

I agree that kg has been a non factor the last 2 games. I do think he's hurt but I don't know whether it's one thing or a series of things. as good as we looked against orlando it took a lot out of us to win that game and it now looks like the wheels have come off again just like they did after we won six to start the year. injuries are really taking a tool on us right now and if doc were smart he'd forget about wins for a while and start playing giddens, hudson amd walker.

I love message boards and all the reactionary stuff that takes place during a tough road trip on the west coast. KG is battling a deep thigh bruise and that is hurting his game. That is it. He was held out the prior game because of it. Get over it. He was lights out before that injury and add the fall he had on his tailbone. **** happens.

LenBiasBaller wrote:I love message boards and all the reactionary stuff that takes place during a tough road trip on the west coast. KG is battling a deep thigh bruise and that is hurting his game. That is it. He was held out the prior game because of it. Get over it. He was lights out before that injury and add the fall he had on his tailbone. **** happens.

Not a reactionary thread at all. Re-read the premise and follow-up post -- wondering about KG's overall health - what's temporary and what's real, regardless of any of our current losses.

Cyclical wrote:

LenBiasBaller wrote:I love message boards and all the reactionary stuff that takes place during a tough road trip on the west coast. KG is battling a deep thigh bruise and that is hurting his game. That is it. He was held out the prior game because of it. Get over it. He was lights out before that injury and add the fall he had on his tailbone. **** happens.

Not a reactionary thread at all. Re-read the premise and follow-up post -- wondering about KG's overall health - what's temporary and what's real, regardless of any of our current losses.

Yeah, after reading the OP I agree with your comments. I just think that KG looked great and like his old self prior to the past few games. I think the recent slump is due to some nagging injuries that occur during a season and especially when you clock as much mileage as KG in his career. He is not as young as he used to be and cannot play through injuries without anyone noticing anymore.

So I guess I am worried about his health given the minutes he's logged but I do still think he will be great this year as he has already has shown this year.

The elephant in the room is not injured, he is old and breaking down. So is the donkey that we got from Detroit.

Both KG and Wallace are old and their career is coming to an end. They are no longer all-star players. It happens with old age. They are more like role players now. Let's not sugar coat it and blame injuries.

If Wallace or KG had good games vs the 2 bad teams that we just played, we would be 2-0 instead of 0-2. We have a good team, but not a championship type team. The swagger we had in 2008 is gone. And Doc is running Ray Allen to the ground. When Rondo is our best offensive option in the last few games, we have major issues. Rondo is doing great on offense, but he too tired on defense. He is being asked to do too much. The guys he is guarding are torching him of late.

return2glory wrote:The elephant in the room is not injured, he is old and breaking down. So is the donkey that we got from Detroit.

Both KG and Wallace are old and their career is coming to an end. They are no longer all-star players. It happens with old age. They are more like role players now. Let's not sugar coat it and blame injuries.

If Wallace or KG had good games vs the 2 bad teams that we just played, we would be 2-0 instead of 0-2. We have a good team, but not a championship type team. The swagger we had in 2008 is gone. And Doc is running Ray Allen to the ground. When Rondo is our best offensive option in the last few games, we have major issues. Rondo is doing great on offense, but he too tired on defense. He is being asked to do too much. The guys he is guarding are torching him of late.

And the overreaction begins. We have the 2nd best record in the league and that is with Pierce being out a few games, Daniels being out and Big Baby out most of the season. We are going to be fine. Look at the other contenders. LA is being hampered by their weak bench, Orlando we just beat without Pierce and Cleveland has a pretty big hole at pf. We might not win as many games during the regular season as 2008, but this team have a very good chance of winning the title.

We are not a championship type team right now is what I mean. When the entire team is healthy, we will be. But injuries are part of the game. KG and Ray have shown they can't carry a team anymore. Wallace and Daniels have been disappointments.

If the entire team is healthy and Wallace and Daniels start playing better we have a good chance to win a title. When healthy, I like our top ten.

Pierce, Rondo, Ray, KG, Perkins, Wallace, TA, Davis, Daniels, and House. That's real nice.

Doc has shown he doesn't want to play Walker or Giddens, so we need to add another wing player for the 2nd half of the season to protect us from injuries.

There's a simple explanation: KG's suffering once again from nagging injuries. You know why he looked injured for the first month of the season? It was because the shin splints and calf strain, plus conditioning issues were slowing him down. After those cleared up, he looked like the old KG.

What's happening now is that he has a deep bone bruise in his thigh, and recently took a hard fall on his lower back. Those nagging injuries are now slowing him down. Once those recover, he'll be back to the old KG.

The knee has been the same all along. It's the other nagging injuries that are affecting him. When a player sits out a prolonged period, it's often the other parts of his body (away from the injured portion where he concentrated his rehab) that become weakened. TA's a great example of this. His recovery from his knee injury has been sabotaged not by the knee, but by all the other subsequent injuries he's suffered since that injury. The body is a holistic organism and an injury in one place throws everything out of balance and causes new injuries in other places as the player over-compensates.

It's been pretty obvious to those of us watching him play and as reported all along, that KG is not 100%. They say he has shin splints and some other nagging issues, but nothing major wrong with his knee.

It takes time to recover from any serious injury, and it's still too early to tell how well KG will play once he is fully recovered. I personally believe he will be a force once again, but only time will tell.

As far as the other predictions made on this thread about KG and Ray being too old, 1B, 2A, 3C, etc, etc. What is the deal? Is there some cash prize I don't know about being the first to predict when their talent will decline due to age? I just don't get it. People have been predicting Ray's demise since he got here. Yes, he's not as good as he was when he was in his prime, but he is the right player for this team at the right time. Don't make me go back and find all the silly trade ideas that some of the same people have thrown out about who we could get for Ray over the time he's been here. Some of which aren't even in the league anymore...DON'T MAKE ME DO IT!!!

AND it seems to me we lost to the Warriors last night because of our bench and not any of the starters. JC and Morrow tore us up. The warriors bench scored 35 pts, while our bench scored a total of 15 pts on 5 for 16 shooting. We shot 50% as a team and lost by 4...

MVP16 wrote:

return2glory wrote:The elephant in the room is not injured, he is old and breaking down. So is the donkey that we got from Detroit.

Both KG and Wallace are old and their career is coming to an end. They are no longer all-star players. It happens with old age. They are more like role players now. Let's not sugar coat it and blame injuries.

If Wallace or KG had good games vs the 2 bad teams that we just played, we would be 2-0 instead of 0-2. We have a good team, but not a championship type team. The swagger we had in 2008 is gone. And Doc is running Ray Allen to the ground. When Rondo is our best offensive option in the last few games, we have major issues. Rondo is doing great on offense, but he too tired on defense. He is being asked to do too much. The guys he is guarding are torching him of late.

And the overreaction begins. We have the 2nd best record in the league and that is with Pierce being out a few games, Daniels being out and Big Baby out most of the season. We are going to be fine. Look at the other contenders. LA is being hampered by their weak bench, Orlando we just beat without Pierce and Cleveland has a pretty big hole at pf. We might not win as many games during the regular season as 2008, but this team have a very good chance of winning the title.

No kidding, everyone is reverting back to the hysteria when we lost 2 in a row like 3 months ago. There's finally a liable excuse for the lack of play and people still acting like the ish has hit the fan.

Scalamental wrote:
No kidding, everyone is reverting back to the hysteria when we lost 2 in a row like 3 months ago. There's finally a liable excuse for the lack of play and people still acting like the ish has hit the fan.

Yeah, people love misery. Funny thing happened which is really weird and I cannot truly explain. Prior to the Sox winning the WS in '04, I used to get so invested emotionally with individual games, and I mean crazy nuts! When the Sox won, it changed me. I still am a huge fan of my teams, but I think I have a greater perspective of what is important not only in life, but in a sporting season. Celtics lost 2 in a row, and guess what, they'll lose more games this year. What matters is the end result. Get healthy and have a great playoff run and hopefully, get title #18. But, only one team wins each year and I think many forget how difficult that really is. Enjoy it. Life goes by way too fast to focus on the negative.