Celtics Improved bench - All Hype

[Celts17Pride]

Boston Celtics bench (numbers per game)

2007

Mins. 109.56
FG PCt. 0.437
3PT Pct. 0.374
FT Pct. 0.741
Reb. 17.70
Assists 9.00
Steals 3.74
Blocks 1.43
TO 6.34
A/TO 1.42
Points 40.55

------------------------------------------

2008

Mins. 107.44
FG PCt. 0.461
3PT Pct. 0.400
FT Pct. 0.718
Reb. 17.70
Assists 6.96
Steals 3.20
Blocks 1.61
TO 5.76
A/TO 1.21
Points 36.67

------------------------------------------

2009

Mins. 82.26
FG PCt. 0.418
3PT Pct. 0.317
FT Pct. 0.749
Reb. 12.90
Assists 4.81
Steals 3.35
Blocks 1.74
TO 3.97
A/TO 1.21
Points 29.35


Rasheed Wallace likes to say Ball Don't Lie, well numbers don't lie. The Celtics are getting their worst bench production in the Pierce/KG/Ray Allen era. The bench is not preforming well and the starters are playing more minutes to try to make up for the benches weak performance.

The Celtics are fine with a 23-8 record but if the bench doesn't pick it up soon then Celtics management will have to go out and improve the bench or it wil be a lost season IMO.

Happy New Year everyone!

[SonicYouth34]

Hmmm interesting...

This doesn't take into account the fact that Rondo and Perk have improved a lot, not to mention we've also been missing Glen Davis for most of the year.

[Cyclical]

A couple of big reasons:
1. Rajon and Perk are scoring much more
2. Marquis+Baby haven't had a chance to match the Posey+Powe combo yet.

Let's give it till after the all-star break for final judgments.

[sunshinekids99]

Pretty pointless stats when the team hasn't even had their full bench this season yet.

[return2glory]

Pretty pointless stats when the team hasn't even had their full bench this season yet.

I was about to say the same thing. I'll wait until Daniels, Wallace, Davis, and TA are all healthy at the same time.

[cfan79]

Yep, Sunnyboy and R2G are right. We haven't had a healthy bench all season. That's like saying Scala is better then Big Baby because he's made more points this season.

[Jammer]

Hmmm interesting...

This doesn't take into account the fact that Rondo and Perk have improved a lot, not to mention we've also been missing Glen Davis for most of the year.

Rondo and Perk's improvement just covers the declines of Pierce, KG and Ray.

The starters have been pretty steady for 3 years around 73 ppg, 27 rpg and 17 apg.

The first two wings off the bench, Marquis and Tony, are not shooters. That is problem 1.
They are redundant. One of Tony or Marquis should be replaced by a shooter.
And I don't mean Giddens or Walker.

Problem 2 is backup PG Eddie House is not a ball handler, but he is the only real
shooter on the bench. So, the Celtics could use a real ball handler for the
toughest defensive pressure times, plus someone who can hit a shot at the same time.
Those type of backup PG, who can handle and shoot, typically go for more than
Eddie's $2.8 Million salary, usually anywhere from $3 to $5 million.

There are no deals out there that match up with the Celtics expiring contracts.
Big Baby's BYC status makes him useless in a trade for $.

I think that if the Celtics want to upgrade with a wing shooter and PG shooter,
they're going to have to pull the trigger on one of the two following deals.
Both work under the RealGM Trade checker:

Brian Scalabrine , JR Giddens and 2010 First Round Pick to Minnesota for Ryan Gomes AND
Marquis Daniels to New York for Nate Robinson OR

Brian Scalabrine, Bill Walker & 2010 First Round Pick to Minny for Ryan Gomes AND
Tony Allen to New York for Nate Robinson.


The first deal saves New York $2 Million luxury tax and about $1.1 Million salary remaining
for a total savings of about $3.1 million for a player that they don't want to play or plan to
re-sign. Minnesota actually takes on an additional $300,000 of remaining salary for this season, Minnesota may want that paid.

The second deal New York saves $1.5 Million of luxury tax and about $900,000 of remaining
salary for total savings of $2.4 Million, while Minnesota actually comes out about even
salary wise but gains a First Round Pick.

[Hemingway]

Stats are meaningless when you watch the games.

[Celts17Pride]

Stats are meaningless when you watch the games.

I watch all the games and in this case stats are not meaningless, the Celtics bench sucks.

[cfan79]

I watch all the games and in this case stats are not meaningless, the Celtics bench sucks.

The bench doesn't suck, we've had injuries. 2 sometimes 3 of our key bench players (Baby, Marquis, Tony) have been injured at the same time. Now we have 3 starters being bitten by the injury bug making the bench even worse.

It makes no sense to look at stats because we've had more injuries then we've had in years past.

[Celts17Pride]

I watch all the games and in this case stats are not meaningless, the Celtics bench sucks.

The bench doesn't suck, we've had injuries. 2 sometimes 3 of our key bench players (Baby, Marquis, Tony) have been injured at the same time. Now we have 3 starters being bitten by the injury bug making the bench even worse.

It makes no sense to look at stats because we've had more injuries then we've had in years past.

Your right about the injuries and the bench as is could get better but the bottom line is they are playing poorly. The bench is full of one dimensional players that don't rebound. 13.0 rebs a game from the bench is awful considering they shoot 42% from the field. They could get better but right now they are bad. Any other conclusion is just making excuses for the bench IMO.

[return2glory]

Stats are meaningless when you watch the games.

I watch all the games and in this case stats are not meaningless, the Celtics bench sucks.

Celts17Pride, I agree that our current bench isn't that good right now. But the key point is right now. Give it time. Again judge them when he have our main bench guys playing at the same time. Daniels, Wallace, Davis, and TA have yet to play in the same game this year.

I also agree with Jammer that we need a wing player off the bench that can shoot. But if Doc is smart, he will not play TA and Daniels together at the wings. The only time it will be a good idea to play Daniels and TA together is when we pair them with two shooters.

[irie]

Between the injuries and the 25 less minutes per game, I don't get the argument.

[chakdaddy]

The thing is, our improved bench is far more about defense and matchups than about stats.

With Rasheed we have a legit 3rd big that isn't undersized like BBD or Powe. And as many 3's as he's missed, worst case scenario he's a better version of PJ Brown. And we didn't even have anything close to that last year.

Daniels is the first legit backup 3 we've had since Posey. He's been disappointing but hopefully he'll be better when healthy.

Couple that with injuries and the facts that Daniels, Rasheed, and House have all underachieved and can be expected to improve, I think our improved bench is fine.

[Fencer reregistered]

There are three guys on the bench who pass the "Ya know, he's not a bad starter" test, which is not a bad number:

Rasheed
Davis
Tony

However,

Davis has been injured all season.
Tony is usually only good as a substitute starter, not getting rotation minutes.

Sheed is a classic bench player -- i.e., like a quality starter, but vastly less consistent.

As for Daniels -- well, we'll see.

[Kefa461]

Revisit the issue after about 60 games.....until then......meaningless imo.

[chakdaddy]

Tony is usually only good as a substitute starter, not getting rotation minutes.

That's a really, really interesting point, and I think sums up the dilemma that is TA...
As excellent as he's been so far this year, you would really like to have someone better in the starting lineup. His excellent performance as a starter is good enough to warrant a rotation spot off the bench, but not really as a long term starter. He still might be the worst jump shooter in the NBA (causing huge problems when he and Rondo are both in the lineup.)

But if he comes off the bench, he never seems to do as well...I now think he has a final chance to stick, but it's still as a bench player.

Maybe he could start on a team that has a star 6th men behind him, like a token starter; maybe that would defeat the paradox.