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I'm more concern about Pierce's absence from the lineup than Garnett only because you still have R. Wallace and G. Davis. You've no one to offset the lost of Pierce.

As of yesterday, the Celtics still didn’t know how long it would be before Paul Pierce would be able to play after being sidelined by a sudden knee infection. In the case of Kevin Garnett, however, Celtics coach Doc Rivers said it would be 10 days before the All-Star forward returns to action.

Pierce talked to reporters last night before the Celtics’ 103-96 win over the Raptors for the first time since scoring 21 points in a win over Indiana Dec. 22. He said he had to undergo two procedures to drain his knee that swelled rapidly overnight as he was resting in his home after the Pacers’ game.

Pierce says he is day-to-day. He will travel with the Celtics on their next road trip but has not set a date to return to game action.

As for Garnett, Rivers said he would be cautious, allowing him to rest. He said another “10 days’’ before Garnett returns to action, which would put his return at Jan. 13 against the Nets, meaning he will miss four more games.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball ... l_unclear/

That is absolutely undeniably true - contrary to what some think. Paul is the heart and soul of this team, the most well rounded player on the team, our clutch closer and our scorer, and impossible to replace adequately. He has always been.

Read my multiple posts in the medical thread about his knee. I cannot see him playing for another week at best. He almost totally lost his entire joint to real live SEPTIC ARTHRITIS.

It all comes back to an infection from a cut on his foot right? Thats crazy if true, I mean that seems like an olde thyme kind of injury to get.

agreed, but only because we don't have Quis. if we had Quis I'd feel a lot better about our backcourt with him and TA. it's fortunate we got BBD back otherwise we'd be in the same situation with KG-- having to play Shel big mins which would not be good.

Bob Ryan said it this morning, and I have been saying it for 6 years on this board:

"If they do pull it off this year, it will be because of solid team defense and, when the time comes, more virtuoso offense from Paul Pierce, the one Celtic who can always get a shot, who knows how to get to the line, and who thrives on the big moments. Kevin Garnett will never change: He will always regard himself as a facilitator, not a Go-To Guy. It’s time we all reconciled ourselves to that reality."

true enough, but our D is SOOO much better with KG in there. we still have Killer Ray to take final shots, or Rondo who can create against anyone. but we saw last year that our D is almost 10 pts worse when KG is out. as godly as pierce is, even he can't hit a 10 point shot at the end of a game.

it would be a horrible choice but if i had to chose to lose 1 guy with everyone else healthy, it would be pierce not kg.

I sure miss the old Ray. The Milwaukee and Seattle version of Ray could take over as the primary scorer. Boston certainly need him to assert his will whether it's shooting from the perimeter or occasionally driving to the basket. You know, it's ironic... Ray needed to make the biggest adjustment between he and Garnett to complement Pierce and what Rivers wanted from the team. Now you're dealing with a situation where you've Pierce, Garnett and Rondo on the shelf indefinitely. And Ray's... Well, Ray isn't doing what I'd expected from him in their absence scoring wise. Pierce hasn't played since the Indiana game. In five games, Ray has averaged 18.6 PPG. What stands out to me is the amount of shot attempts by Ray. He must be more aggressive... Rivers should find more ways to get him shooting opportunities. Why is your point guard averaging 20.0 PPG by comparison? Taking individual match-ups into account, your scorers need to score. Rondo shouldn't be made to be the leading scorer.

I want at least a 25+ PPG average from Ray while Pierce is out. Because I know better than to ask more scoring from Garnett. I think he left his phenomenal statistics in Minnesota knowing he doesn't have to be that player with Boston. Well, Garnett... You're one of the league's best players. It sure would help... You know... Immensely.


TOR@BOS - Ray - 8-13 23 points
BOS@PHO - Ray - 4-13 15 points (Rondo - 5-12 13 points)
BOS@GS - Ray - 10-21 24 points (Rondo - 11-18 30 points; Garnett - 7-14 16 points)
BOS@LAC - Ray - 6-12 13 points (Rondo - 9-16 20 points; Garnett - 5-13 12 points)
BOS@ORL - Ray - 5-12 18 points (Rondo - 7-18 17 points; Garnett - 3-9 10 points)

Last year, KG was the hardest to replace because we didn't have a player of Rasheed's defensive ability to step in. Plus KG has slowed down a bit. He's still a very good defender but no longer the elite defender he once was.

Pierce on this team, this year, is irreplaceable. Marquis, Tony, Ray, whoever gets minutes at the three on this team is a significant downgrade from Pierce. Tony has done an admirable job in his absence, but when it gets down to the nuts and bolts I don't know if we could win a playoff series with everyone else healthy and Paul out.

bonsaiflipflops wrote:I sure miss the old Ray. The Milwaukee and Seattle version of Ray could take over as the primary scorer. Boston certainly need him to assert his will whether it's shooting from the perimeter or occasionally driving to the basket. You know, it's ironic... Ray needed to make the biggest adjustment between he and Garnett to complement Pierce and what Rivers wanted from the team. Now you're dealing with a situation where you've Pierce, Garnett and Rondo on the shelf indefinitely. And Ray's... Well, Ray isn't doing what I'd expected from him in their absence scoring wise. Pierce hasn't played since the Indiana game. In five games, Ray has averaged 18.6 PPG. What stands out to me is the amount of shot attempts by Ray. He must be more aggressive... Rivers should find more ways to get him shooting opportunities. Why is your point guard averaging 20.0 PPG by comparison? Taking individual match-ups into account, your scorers need to score. Rondo shouldn't be made to be the leading scorer.

I want at least a 25+ PPG average from Ray while Pierce is out. Because I know better than to ask more scoring from Garnett. I think he left his phenomenal statistics in Minnesota knowing he doesn't have to be that player with Boston. Well, Garnett... You're one of the league's best players. It sure would help... You know... Immensely.


TOR@BOS - Ray - 8-13 23 points
BOS@PHO - Ray - 4-13 15 points (Rondo - 5-12 13 points)
BOS@GS - Ray - 10-21 24 points (Rondo - 11-18 30 points; Garnett - 7-14 16 points)
BOS@LAC - Ray - 6-12 13 points (Rondo - 9-16 20 points; Garnett - 5-13 12 points)
BOS@ORL - Ray - 5-12 18 points (Rondo - 7-18 17 points; Garnett - 3-9 10 points)

You're on the right track in noting that Ray isn't the same player he was in his prime. But then to say you want him to average 25ppg with Pierce out? I haven't seen anything to suggest he's capable of that anymore. He can get hot and have a big scoring night on relatively few attempts, but that has turned into the exception rather than the norm.

It's not reflective in the box score, but that first game against the Clips when Paul was out, Ray didn't look like the kind of guy who can or should be looking for his own offense except for when it presents itself. He forced some shots, pounded the ball way too much and didn't seem all too interested in involving his teammates. It appeared to me that Ray decided he was and should be the number one scoring option in that game, only he's just not at that level anymore and it showed. It was actually the first time I've seen any player on this team play selfishly in a long time, and it did not look good.

At this point in their respective careers, it's a lot easier for Rondo to find 20 good looks at the basket than it is for Ray.

Of course its true, but I'm happy that both are out. Our bench will benefit from all the minutes they are getting.

ParticleMan wrote:true enough, but our D is SOOO much better with KG in there. we still have Killer Ray to take final shots, or Rondo who can create against anyone. but we saw last year that our D is almost 10 pts worse when KG is out. as godly as pierce is, even he can't hit a 10 point shot at the end of a game.

it would be a horrible choice but if i had to chose to lose 1 guy with everyone else healthy, it would be pierce not kg.

Yea because KG has been a monster defender this year huh??Yeah that game against the Knicks he held Harrington to like..negative 30 pts right?lol
We are 2-3 without Pierce, and went on to lose to the CLippers and Warriors without P in there..our only 3 game losing streak of the season comees while Pierce is out(we played like 30+ games counting playoffs last year WITHOUT KG, and we never had a 3 game skid!)..if Paul plays, and KG sits we win those games EASILY. NO way in hell you pick KG over Pierce now..no way...I wouldn't pick KG over Rondo right now, let alone over Pierce..KG is not MVP KG from Sota anymore...Paul Pierce is still the second best small forward in the NBA behind only LeBron...he can pass, score, defend..like it or not, this team gets alot further with Pierce, than it would with Garnett.

You said it, Bruno and IT IS THE **** TRUTH, AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN. I don't expect the casual fan or the morons in media to understand that "Paul Pierce is Lebron, Kobe, DWade without the media-hype" (an incredibly accurate quote from a fan from another board on our board after Paul had just kicked the ass of his team). What continues to blow me away is how much his excellence is underappreciated and taken for granted by a bunch of people who are frigging Celtic fans right here on this board. It just blows my mind.

No matter, he is a future HOFER, right there with Bron and Kobe and Melo as the best of the best, and HE WILL LEAD US TO NUMBER 18 THIS YEAR - if KG gets well enough to SUPPORT HIM (and not visa versa). Of course, we also need Rondo to continue his track to All Starhood, and Ray to give us whatever gas he has left in his tank.

I agree that pierce is the most important player on this team, but to put him in the same realm as kobe and lebron is pure homerism.

exculpatory wrote:You said it, Bruno and IT IS THE **** TRUTH, AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN. I don't expect the casual fan or the morons in media to understand that "Paul Pierce is Lebron, Kobe, DWade without the media-hype" (an incredibly accurate quote from a fan from another board on our board after Paul had just kicked the ass of his team). What continues to blow me away is how much his excellence is underappreciated and taken for granted by a bunch of people who are frigging Celtic fans right here on this board. It just blows my mind.

No matter, he is a future HOFER, right there with Bron and Kobe and Melo as the best of the best, and HE WILL LEAD US TO NUMBER 18 THIS YEAR - if KG gets well enough to SUPPORT HIM (and not visa versa). Of course, we also need Rondo to continue his track to All Starhood, and Ray to give us whatever gas he has left in his tank.

This is ridiculous- get a grip on yourself.

But I agree with the premise- to succeed in the playoffs, Pierce has to be healthy- he's the only guy who is a threat to consistently score and create in the clutch.

bballcool34 wrote:

exculpatory wrote:You said it, Bruno and IT IS THE **** TRUTH, AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN. I don't expect the casual fan or the morons in media to understand that "Paul Pierce is Lebron, Kobe, DWade without the media-hype" (an incredibly accurate quote from a fan from another board on our board after Paul had just kicked the ass of his team). What continues to blow me away is how much his excellence is underappreciated and taken for granted by a bunch of people who are frigging Celtic fans right here on this board. It just blows my mind.

No matter, he is a future HOFER, right there with Bron and Kobe and Melo as the best of the best, and HE WILL LEAD US TO NUMBER 18 THIS YEAR - if KG gets well enough to SUPPORT HIM (and not visa versa). Of course, we also need Rondo to continue his track to All Starhood, and Ray to give us whatever gas he has left in his tank.

This is ridiculous- get a grip on yourself.

But I agree with the premise- to succeed in the playoffs, Pierce has to be healthy- he's the only guy who is a threat to consistently score and create in the clutch.

What exactly is ridiculous? The general underappreciation of his excellence.....including you apparently. Correct. That is ridiculous.

Or the fact that Paul is in the same stratosphere as the best of the best. If you do not think so, you are wrong. I did not say that he was better than Lebron and Kobe. I said that he is in the same conversation. Yes, he is that good., and your statement is ridiculous.

Rondo's absence worse than Garnett & Pierce's!

I am not saying he is better then them, just we are more ill equipped to deal with his absence. He has been our MVP this season, just look at the Cigars.

Here is the deal, GreenMachine:

Our biggest weaknesses are lack of a solid back-up for Paul (Gomes?) and a back-up for RR (?). Jammer and I have posted many times about this.

We would be hurting losing either the Truth or RR for an extended period of time - much more than losing KG at this point in his career.

Bottomline: Paul is the guts of the team, the closer, the best scorer, the most well rounded, the best player, the most important player on the team, etc. This has always been true, prior to the arrival of KG and Ray and the emergence of RR, and since then as well. I would not want to lose either Paul or RR for any length of time. However, losing Paul for an extended period would be much much much more devastating for us right now.

exculpatory wrote:Bob Ryan said it this morning, and I have been saying it for 6 years on this board:

"If they do pull it off this year, it will be because of solid team defense and, when the time comes, more virtuoso offense from Paul Pierce, the one Celtic who can always get a shot, who knows how to get to the line, and who thrives on the big moments. Kevin Garnett will never change: He will always regard himself as a facilitator, not a Go-To Guy. It’s time we all reconciled ourselves to that reality."

Hogwash. The question is health and age, not tired talking points that have been repeatedly proven false for years. KG has historically stepped his game up just fine in big moments and late game situations. If he's healthy he's still the best player on this team. If he's not healthy this team won't win a title. Unfortunately, it's that simple.

I understand that given his age, Ray is unlikely to reach my expectations as far as his points per game average is concern. I guess it was more of a pleading toward him to attempt more shots and allow Rondo to be more of a facilitator than a scorer--he isn't Chris Paul. Because I prefer not to thrust that responsibility onto Rondo. It's unfortunate that he's seemingly the lone best young player on the team. Especially, since he's the starting point guard. But that's what happens when you don't draft well or you trade away your young players to acquire an All-Star veteran or two. In an ideal reality, Giddens and B. Walker would be paying dividends off the bench right now.

exculpatory wrote:

bballcool34 wrote:

exculpatory wrote:You said it, Bruno and IT IS THE **** TRUTH, AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN. I don't expect the casual fan or the morons in media to understand that "Paul Pierce is Lebron, Kobe, DWade without the media-hype" (an incredibly accurate quote from a fan from another board on our board after Paul had just kicked the ass of his team). What continues to blow me away is how much his excellence is underappreciated and taken for granted by a bunch of people who are frigging Celtic fans right here on this board. It just blows my mind.

No matter, he is a future HOFER, right there with Bron and Kobe and Melo as the best of the best, and HE WILL LEAD US TO NUMBER 18 THIS YEAR - if KG gets well enough to SUPPORT HIM (and not visa versa). Of course, we also need Rondo to continue his track to All Starhood, and Ray to give us whatever gas he has left in his tank.

This is ridiculous- get a grip on yourself.

But I agree with the premise- to succeed in the playoffs, Pierce has to be healthy- he's the only guy who is a threat to consistently score and create in the clutch.

What exactly is ridiculous? The general underappreciation of his excellence.....including you apparently. Correct. That is ridiculous.

Or the fact that Paul is in the same stratosphere as the best of the best. If you do not think so, you are wrong. I did not say that he was better than Lebron and Kobe. I said that he is in the same conversation. Yes, he is that good., and your statement is ridiculous.

Pierce is a very good player. Historically he probably wasn't given as much due as his talent and production would have deserved. But he's not nor ever has been in the conversation with the best-of-the-best. If Pierce has to be the best player on this team on a game-in game-out basis we're not winning number 18. Here's to hoping that both he and KG, as well as all of the other key players are healthy come playoff time so we don't have to see this re-proven again like it was last year.

drza wrote:

exculpatory wrote:Bob Ryan said it this morning, and I have been saying it for 6 years on this board:

"If they do pull it off this year, it will be because of solid team defense and, when the time comes, more virtuoso offense from Paul Pierce, the one Celtic who can always get a shot, who knows how to get to the line, and who thrives on the big moments. Kevin Garnett will never change: He will always regard himself as a facilitator, not a Go-To Guy. It’s time we all reconciled ourselves to that reality."

Hogwash. The question is health and age, not tired talking points that have been repeatedly proven false for years. KG has historically stepped his game up just fine in big moments and late game situations. If he's healthy he's still the best player on this team. If he's not healthy this team won't win a title. Unfortunately, it's that simple.

Hogwash to you also! We will NEVER agree. Ryan is correct, and so am I.

Regardless, history had proven that neither Paul or KG can carry a team to a banner without proper support. In 2008, they blended their skillsets perfectly, and we won the 'ship. I hope to goodness that KG returns to his 2008 excellence. Then Paul will lead us to Number 18 with KG anchoring the D and RR playmaking like a whirling dervish and creating havoc right behind him. And hopefully Ray Ray right behind RR and KG throwing in daggers right and left.