RealGM

I'm getting a little sick of sifting through trade ideas that exclusively use Ray as an expiring. Don't forget that he's still a great, albeit old, player. If you propose a trade and think the only reason a team should accept that deal is because they get an expiring in Ray, then either that team isn't going to want to do the deal or we aren't getting fair value in return.

Also, it doesn't make sense to trade Ray in hoping the other team would buy him out and then he'd re-sign with us. He's not some over the hill role player like Antonio McDyess, even if he were bought out and were then willing to come back to us for this year (limited options this season), we'd lose his bird rights. That means all we could offer him is the MLE in the offseason and what he has to offer is worth much more than that and he could get much more than that considering how many teams have caproom this offseason. So at the very least, make sure that whoever we get back in a trade like that would be worth at least a full MLE player next offseason, because guaranteed the entire exception would have to be used on Ray. He doesn't owe us anything, there's no reason for him to play here on the minimum. He's an integral player to our system and could stack a team even more if all he wanted to do was win and play for the MLE.

In my opinion, if we are to move Ray, ideally he gets traded to a team that wants flexibility this offseason, but still wants to win now (and possibly the next couple years with Ray as well) and only in the short distant future and not five or so years from now. We're one of the few teams that actually wants this. The few teams (in the West, why would a team in the East want to help us like this?) that could use Ray in this way are Dallas, Denver, Utah, Houston, and San Antonio (couldn't see LA looking to help us either). In addition to that, that team would have to be able to offer us a player in place of Ray that is either younger or better than him, but on a longer deal that doesn't last past KG's. An example would be trading Ray to Phoenix for J Rich and filler. We'd get an arguably similar player, with an extra year on their contract, but six years younger. Phoenix gets to continue winning now, but more flexibility this offseason since they're already risking losing Amare.

I'm only bringing this up because Ray's gone severely under appreciated here lately. Please consider what kind of player he is, what's he's done, what he means to us, and what he'd have to offer another team before you even bother opening the trade checker.

most of the trade threads you're reacting to propose the same thing: trade Ray for a better (or equal) and younger player. Trades like JRich/Barbosa, Martin/Nocioni, Ellis/Maggette, etc. have come up in the past because the talent upgrade for the C's would be too much to pass up.

Ray will be traded in the right deal, it's just doubtful that deal comes along.

I like the trade for richardson, I'd say he'd be a better defender and nearly all of his numbers are the same this year if not better than ray. He can also create a shot on his own, which will help free up pierce and eddie (if he plays sometimes with the second unit). I also think he can do better on the boards if he was in a system where he was forced to rebound instead of just breaking out and we definitely need help there (giving up 2 more points per game than last year). I also don't think this trade is possible though, they got a good thing going in Phoenix even with the awful loss last night. Ray could turn into Grant Hill though if he played out there, he'd have nothing to worry about but to shoot. I just heard New Jersey was putting Devin Harris on the block, I'd say doing something that involved him would be best just because that could free up some cap room for next summer. I would hate to punish Ray for no reason by sending him there though.

hairybyrd wrote:most of the trade threads you're reacting to propose the same thing: trade Ray for a better (or equal) and younger player. Trades like JRich/Barbosa, Martin/Nocioni, Ellis/Maggette, etc. have come up in the past because the talent upgrade for the C's would be too much to pass up.

Ray will be traded in the right deal, it's just doubtful that deal comes along.

They understand our target, but not other teams' targets. Sacto wouldn't do the Martin/Noc trade because they want young talent to surround Evans with, not just get out from contracts, and it's questionable if getting the two of them helps us now. Ellis/Maggette, similarly, it's debatable whether it helps us now and GSW wouldn't move Ellis just to get out from Magette's contract (who's been a plus this year).

If we were moving Theo Ratliff again, I'd say it's just an expiring, but there's no point in offering Ray to a team like Sacramento or GSW because they're more focused on winning in the future than now, so they have no need for what Ray can offer them as a player.

As I said in some posts...if we are able to get a caliber of player like Iguodala or Martin we must make the trade. Or a package of Randolph+Maggette...

This is a great opportunity to add a young borderline allstar to combo Rondo/Perkins...improve the future with out harming the present!

klemen4 wrote:As I said in some posts...if we are able to get a caliber of player like Iguodala or Martin we must make the trade. Or a package of Randolph+Maggette...

This is a great opportunity to add a young borderline allstar to combo Rondo/Perkins...improve the future with out harming the present!

Once again, why would any of those teams do the deal just for Ray Allen? There are plenty of other teams with expirings heading into this offseason that could provide all three of these teams with better young talent than we have. All three of these teams would use Ray's services for this year and most likely that's it.

How much will Ray get on the open market?

Well to some teams all Ray is an expiring contract. If Ray was traded it would be for a younger player on a big long contract who needs to part ways with his team for whatever reason. That team is only trading said younger player for cap space this summer (which would allow them to sign a better player to a max contract). The team making the trade is probably not going to make the playoffs, so Ray's value as a player does not matter to them.

Ray's expiring contract has no value to the Celtics because they are over the cap, but that is all the value he has to many other teams. The teams "want flexibility" and also "win now" are nonexistent. oh sure every team wants flexibility and every team would like to win now, but realistically no team that is in win now mode would risk trading the kind of player the Celtics want (an all star player) while still attempting to win.

So basically, in the right deal, the deal that could actually happen, Ray is JUST an expiring contract.

Hemingway wrote:How much will Ray get on the open market?

I'm guessing he gets $8 million per year at the most for a multi-year deal.

If he re-signs w the Celts I think it will be a 2 year contract for $10-12 million which would be a great hometown discount. The biggest concern is the years. He'll probably get 2, maybe 3 w a team option. Not really basing this off anything just guessing.

Ray is important to the Celtics. He's out 4th best player but let's be real ... he's not "great" but he has a lot of value for us.

I'm extremely confident the Celtics hold on to Ray and he never plays for a different team. I just hope he doesn't get a large contract this off-season.

I dont think he'd get over 7 mil in this market...

A 35 year-old role player will certainly not get more than the MLE on the open market...

He's not getting traded before the season ends. Forget it. Danny is not f'ing with a 3-year chemistry before these playoffs. The starting 5+1 are staying put. Any upcoming Celtics trades are only going to involve players 7-14.

klemen4 wrote:As I said in some posts...if we are able to get a caliber of player like Iguodala or Martin we must make the trade. Or a package of Randolph+Maggette...

This is a great opportunity to add a young borderline allstar to combo Rondo/Perkins...improve the future with out harming the present!

You're either way over-estimating the GM abilities of Danny Ainge or way under-estimating the abilities of all the other GMs. There's no way any of those trades would happen where teams give up their best / core players for an aging Ray Allen just to buy him out so we can get him back too. That doesn't even make sense.