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Ray Allen to 6th man role. play Ray about 32 minutes off the bench

I think this would make the team better

Between him and Perk it would be turnovers galore!!

Yippeee...........

So he also creates turnovers and plays good man to man defence

TA has played 388 minutes this season and has 26 steals

RA has played 1495 minutes this season and has 34 steals

TA in 388 minutes has 62 Rebounds (22 offensive)

RA in 1495 minutes has 133 Rebounds (26 offensive)

TA in 388 minutes has 5 blocks

RA in 1495 minutes 11 blocks

TA is shooting 51% from the field


So whats the problem, with more minutes TA would be more Effective

RA is perfect for the 6th man spot

It COULD work. Probably would.

But why create that distraction for Ray and the rest of the starters. Starting games is overrated.

But Ray Allen is miles better than Tony Allen, and even though itd be nice to have more D in the 1st unit, and more O in the second... This could and does happen all the time with Ray starting/ Ray is the first out, and the first back in.

No, Tony shouldn't start, but he should be getting some of Ray's minutes. Ray's defense is too bad and his offense hasn't been good enough to warrant the minutes he's playing. He should be playing no more than 30 min.

to bad ray would probably sulk

Ray isnt that much better then Tony anymore

PP34RA10 wrote:to bad ray would probably sulk

Ray isnt that much better then Tony anymore

You really think Ray would sulk? I thought he was a class act?

cisco wrote:

PP34RA10 wrote:to bad ray would probably sulk

Ray isnt that much better then Tony anymore

You really think Ray would sulk? I thought he was a class act?

I dont think he would like it if he was put on the bench, yea hes a class act but he thinks very highly of himself on the basketball court

PP34RA10 wrote:

cisco wrote:

PP34RA10 wrote:to bad ray would probably sulk

Ray isnt that much better then Tony anymore

You really think Ray would sulk? I thought he was a class act?

I dont think he would like it if he was put on the bench, yea hes a class act but he thinks very highly of himself on the basketball court

But he wouldn't be benched, just playing less minutes.

I'm not ready to say TA should start. While I disagree with the camp who claims that TA and Quis cannot effectively play together, spacing is an important element to effective offense and having 3 non-shooters (Rondo, TA, Perk) I believe would be troublesome.

My concern surrounding TA, is what will Doc do to the rotation once Quis is ready to play.

After last nights game where Tony played a crucial part on putting the clamp on Andre Miller , and where Ray came back late to hit the game winner, I could see that working. The thing that makes Ray so ineffective is having a guy on him all the time. Because usually -not last night- if he's open, it's a 3, as if it was a lay up. And if you sub Tony Allen for him, there's no longer that 3 point threat. So they can lay off him. Which hurts just about everyone's offensive game on the floor.

I would love to see Doc experiment with it though. Even though I would love for Tony to stay here and do well, if he did that, it would probably increase his trade value as well.

TA has already shown this year that he fits in well enough with the starters. Last time I checked (which was a more than a week ago so this may have changed), he and Rondo were 1 and 2 in the league in steals per 36 minutes amongst starting and rotation players. These two + Paul playing perimeter D and KG + Perk in the middle is the best defensive unit we can put on the court. This team's calling card to success was and STILL IS defense, not the offense. The way Ray has been shooting you're not going to lose that much by putting him in an extended bench role and inserting TA's hustle and aggressiveness (and mental lapses) with the starting unit.

It's quite possible that Ray is burnt out, the shots he's missing are not exactly tough ones and they're shots he's had no trouble converting his entire life. He's also been remarkably slower coming off of screens. Much of the reason he hasn't gotten as many shot attempts is that he can't get as much room to free up his shooting hand anymore. It's all symptomatic of tired legs and he's going to be DONE by the playoffs if he keeps playing this many minutes.

Of course there is less than 1% chance of this happening. Doc doesn't ever make these kinds of moves, and he wouldn't dare insult Ray by bringing him off the bench while he's healthy.

Somewhat related to this is that Doc is a bit of a bully. He never hesitates to make critical comments about his younger players but he's a complete chicken**** when dealing with vets. One example is what he had to say about Glen Davis, yet when asked about Sheed and all the stupid techs he just backs right off. Sooner or later he's going to have to assert himself with the vets because these guys aren't All-NBA players anymore.

DunkOnFace wrote:Somewhat related to this is that Doc is a bit of a bully. He never hesitates to make critical comments about his younger players but he's a complete chicken**** when dealing with vets. One example is what he had to say about Glen Davis, yet when asked about Sheed and all the stupid techs he just backs right off. Sooner or later he's going to have to assert himself with the vets because these guys aren't All-NBA players anymore.

Sheed and Davis are very different players and I think the way Doc handles the players vs. handles the media about his players are two different agendas.

Scalamental wrote:

DunkOnFace wrote:Somewhat related to this is that Doc is a bit of a bully. He never hesitates to make critical comments about his younger players but he's a complete chicken**** when dealing with vets. One example is what he had to say about Glen Davis, yet when asked about Sheed and all the stupid techs he just backs right off. Sooner or later he's going to have to assert himself with the vets because these guys aren't All-NBA players anymore.

Sheed and Davis are very different players and I think the way Doc handles the players vs. handles the media about his players are two different agendas.

Well we don't know how he handles any of these guys behind closed doors but I know that he's very quick to publicly talk negatively about his younger players (not just Glen Davis because he deserves it, he's been saying critical things about Rondo for years). Perhaps he does it to motivate them, but I wouldn't mind seeing a little consistency when a guy like Ray or Rasheed screws up. He goes out of his way to never say anything remotely critical of vets.

Its not that I think it's a big deal or anything, just a pet peeve.

PP34RA10 wrote:

cisco wrote:

PP34RA10 wrote:to bad ray would probably sulk

Ray isnt that much better then Tony anymore

You really think Ray would sulk? I thought he was a class act?

I dont think he would like it if he was put on the bench, yea hes a class act but he thinks very highly of himself on the basketball court

as well he should because he is.

DunkOnFace wrote:TA has already shown this year that he fits in well enough with the starters. Last time I checked (which was a more than a week ago so this may have changed), he and Rondo were 1 and 2 in the league in steals per 36 minutes amongst starting and rotation players. These two + Paul playing perimeter D and KG + Perk in the middle is the best defensive unit we can put on the court. This team's calling card to success was and STILL IS defense, not the offense. The way Ray has been shooting you're not going to lose that much by putting him in an extended bench role and inserting TA's hustle and aggressiveness (and mental lapses) with the starting unit.

Great point, DunkOnFace. This team is predicated on defense and starting it's most defensively imposing lineup to begin the game would go a long ways towards establishing that defense on a nightly basis. If the offense suffers, who cares because the defense will have been established and it's our defensive effort that's going to bring home another championship (if indeed we're able to do that).

Donny on Pregame had an interesting anecdote about Ray. Donny said that he talked to the Mavs players after the game and they said they could tell whether the ball was coming to Ray based off how hard Ray ran around his picks--if he was busting ass, the ball was coming. If he was lollygagging, he was a decoy.

This says one of two things: either Ray's tired (my guess), or Ray's not willing to put in the extra effort anymore. Whatever the case, a move to the bench might be exactly what's needed to get him going again.

And, for the record, I think TA or Daniels (when healthy) should both be in the discussion in terms of who might replace Ray in the starting lineup. TA's the obvious choice because he is better starting and thrives best when there's another ball handlers in the backcourt with him. Daniels, on the other hand, is still probably needed to ball handle for that 2nd unit--whether it includes Ray or not.

uh no and T. allen is avg 7.1 ppg vs. 16 and he can't stretch the floor his 3% is zero and ft% is 592 and he turns it over more at less minutes imagine giving him more minutes lol.

tony allen should be traded not starting over ray, LMAO

captain green wrote:uh no and T. allen is avg 7.1 ppg vs. 16 and he can't stretch the floor his 3% is zero and ft% is 592 and he turns it over more at less minutes imagine giving him more minutes lol.

tony allen should be traded not starting over ray, LMAO

LULZ!

I disagree about starting him but I think Tony should get more minutes with the other starters at various points during the game. He seems to play a lot better alongside Rondo than Eddie. Probably because neither Tony nor Eddie are very adept at handling the ball for extended periods of time and they both are off-the-ball offensive players.

TA's not so good defensively to sacrifice the spacing/offense that Ray gives the starters.

That said, Ray is looking to be more and more of a liability as the season progresses. I don't like the prospect of having him guard Kobe, Wade, Joe Johnson and even Vince Carter for 30+ minutes a night in playoff action.

He really should be moved to 6th man duty, we just don't have the personnel to make it a good move yet.