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TA is an NBA starter. He shut Kobe down, He's starting to take over games. His net PER is a whopping +3.8.

http://www.82games.com/0910/0910BOS.HTM

Is Bird kicking himself for not taking TA or what? Indiana's net PER at the SG is a -5.3, the third worst in the league?

There are a number of teams with mid round first round picks or better that are seriously hurting at the SG position. (Chi, Ind, Mem, Mil, Min, NO, Tor & Was) Trading TA to place where he would start is a win for him. It would be a win for the team getting him and win for the Celtics.

With Daniels coming back, well Tony will be somewhat redundant. He's much better than a eighth or ninth man. This a chance for another team to get a starter at a bargain price.

IF Tony Allen is traded it will probably be with other expiring contracts for a bigger piece than a draft pick.

Tony wouldn't start for any team in the NBA. Not only is he inconsistent he has had injuries to both his knees.

His net PER was +4.3 last year when he was "garbage."

He is a reserve, in my opinion, because his offense is predicated on being set up by the offense to drive or cut. I'd still love to hear more fact or strategy based arguments for why two slashers on the court at the same time, while redundant, cannot be an effective set especially considering Wallace and Baby are perimeter bigs. You cannot have Rondo, Daniels, and TA out there together, but two of the three is very workable, IMO.

Yeah, it's been a nice surprise. I was definitely wrong about him over the summer. Great to see him doing well, we really need it now, but I still don't see him as an NBA starter. I think he's a large product of how good this team is. If he doesn't have Ray, Pierce, House spreading the floor for him, then he'd be relatively inefficient on offense. Hopefully another team bites on him though as a starter. His expiring plus potential could bring back a more reliable player.

darrendaye wrote:His net PER was +4.3 last year when he was "garbage."

He is a reserve, in my opinion, because his offense is predicated on being set up by the offense to drive or cut. I'd still love to hear more fact or strategy based arguments for why two slashers on the court at the same time, while redundant, cannot be an effective set especially considering Wallace and Baby are perimeter bigs. You cannot have Rondo, Daniels, and TA out there together, but two of the three is very workable, IMO.

I feel alot more comfortable with TA and Daniels on the court at the same time then I do with Wallace and Big Baby on the court at the same time. Wallace and Big Baby together are horrible defensively.

Celts17Pride wrote:
I feel alot more comfortable with TA and Daniels on the court at the same time then I do with Wallace and Big Baby on the court at the same time. Wallace and Big Baby together are horrible defensively.

I agree with that. Been lobbying for a couple of weeks for KG to be teamed with Baby.

cfan79 wrote:Tony wouldn't start for any team in the NBA. Not only is he inconsistent he has had injuries to both his knees.

Agreed...he's a solid bench guy, no doubt, but that's all he is

MyInsatiableOne wrote:Agreed...he's a solid bench guy, no doubt, but that's all he is

Its amazing how many times people change their opinion huh. I love Tony's defense, but not much else.

he is an NBA player
he could provide limited minutes to mostly any team in the NBA.
he would be great for toronto, they have enough offense in their starting lineup that he could be their defensive player.

cfan79 wrote:Tony wouldn't start for any team in the NBA. Not only is he inconsistent he has had injuries to both his knees.

A little overboard. If Ainge traded him to the Nets he would start tonight.

Celts17Pride wrote:
A little overboard. If Ainge traded him to the Nets he would start tonight.

Not really, I'd take Courtney Lee over him. He's younger and has more potential.

There are plenty of guys starting in the NBA worse than Tony Allen, Boston has always just been a horrible fit for him but Doc and Danny are the two guys who believe in him the most. He never gets to play with a pg and is asked to do it himself and is frequently matched him up against a SF on both ends.

Think he is routing for the Bulls trade a little bit.

cfan79 wrote:

MyInsatiableOne wrote:Agreed...he's a solid bench guy, no doubt, but that's all he is

Its amazing how many times people change their opinion huh. I love Tony's defense, but not much else.

Well, to be able to defend Wade and Kobe very well isn't just defense, it means less offense is needed. If you can keep those guys from blowing the lid off, you're as important as Big Ben playing in the paint. You don't need to score a point, but Tony has been efficiently scoring points too.

And I haven't changed my opinion, it was made three years ago at LA when we beat them with TA at the "point". He's a starter anytime we play anyone named Kobe, DWade, etc right now if I'm coaching.

TA could start for rest of the season in Ray Allen's spot and it would probably be a good thing for us: better defense, more rest for Ray, higher uptick in shots for Rondo/Perk/Paul/KG. But Doc's offense is so precious to him and his deference to the veterans so deeply felt that he can't bring himself to alter the starting lineup, nor make the kind of changes to the offense necessary to accomodate TA.

Off the top of my head I could name you 15 teams who could/would/should start TA at 2 or 3. He's been miscast during most his time in Boston, but in the right system under the rigth coach he could give you quality/above average starter's minutes. As always, though, it's about health and confidence with him--always has been.

TA should start for this team right now with Ray coming off the bench. It is funny so many shoot this theory down saying Ray is a starter, but in the next breath want him to be re-signed next year as a 6th man. Make the move now to see if this could be the future, as Ray can still get 30-32 minutes a game. With Daniels coming back I think he would team with Ray very good. We can't win a title without defense and TA is a much better defender with the ailing ans slow first unit.

ryaningf wrote:TA could start for rest of the season in Ray Allen's spot and it would probably be a good thing for us: better defense, more rest for Ray, higher uptick in shots for Rondo/Perk/Paul/KG. But Doc's offense is so precious to him and his deference to the veterans so deeply felt that he can't bring himself to alter the starting lineup, nor make the kind of changes to the offense necessary to accomodate TA.

Off the top of my head I could name you 15 teams who could/would/should start TA at 2 or 3. He's been miscast during most his time in Boston, but in the right system under the rigth coach he could give you quality/above average starter's minutes. As always, though, it's about health and confidence with him--always has been.

Tony Allen is a good energy guy off the bench, he is not a starter on the Celtics. He started last game against Miami and he was horrible until the last half of the 4th quarter. Tony Allen is where he should be which is coming off the bench.

Maybe you should see the Doc interview after the Miami game and see if he agrees with you on that statement about TA.

Celtics_85 wrote:Maybe you should see the Doc interview after the Miami game and see if he agrees with you on that statement about TA.

If both Ray Allen and Pierce are healthly I wouldn't hold your breath expecting Tony Allen to start. You might not be around too long.

Celts17Pride wrote:

ryaningf wrote:TA could start for rest of the season in Ray Allen's spot and it would probably be a good thing for us: better defense, more rest for Ray, higher uptick in shots for Rondo/Perk/Paul/KG. But Doc's offense is so precious to him and his deference to the veterans so deeply felt that he can't bring himself to alter the starting lineup, nor make the kind of changes to the offense necessary to accomodate TA.

Off the top of my head I could name you 15 teams who could/would/should start TA at 2 or 3. He's been miscast during most his time in Boston, but in the right system under the rigth coach he could give you quality/above average starter's minutes. As always, though, it's about health and confidence with him--always has been.

Tony Allen is a good energy guy off the bench, he is not a starter on the Celtics. He started last game against Miami and he was horrible until the last half of the 4th quarter. Tony Allen is where he should be which is coming off the bench.

You gotta take things in context. First, TA wasn't terrible--I thought he did a solid job in his minutes. He didn't get ANY help from the refs on either sides of the ball. He missed 3 layups and at least 2 of them were because he got fouled but didn't get a whistle. He definitely made Wade work for his buckets.

What was disappointing about his performance was how the team defense got broke down time and time again when TA was defending Wade. Basically, TA would stop Wade's shot attempt, but the team defense would over-help and allow Wade to pass to a teammate for a bucket. It happened like 5 times in the first half. I guess the team wasn't used to playing with a shutdown defender--because on those TA had stopped Wade, only to have his teammates over-react to Wade's penetration attempt. With more time in the starting lineup, this could be corrected.

And, as I and others have hinted at in other posts, more could be done to work TA into the offense. Right now, he's pretty much wasted out there. Personally, I'd find ways to get him closer to the hoop, either with post attempts, or ball cuts to the rim--specifically I'd allow him to crash the offensive boards from time to time (when the spacing allows it and there are other players in position to get back on defense). He's a beast on the offensive boards.