Where do you rank ken Griffey JR.

[RSCD3_]

Among baseball's greatest hitters.


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[jon33km]

He's one of the best because is attitude was one of the best

[UN-Owen]

He had some monster seasons offensively, but he was never among the very best in terms of AVG and OBP

As an overall player, I think Griffey might make my top 5 all-time

But as a hitter, I'm not sure

[Cactus Jack]

Greatest player I've ever seen in my 30 years. Getting to Watch him in person was amazing. Haven't seen anyone play a better centerfield. He was as clutch as could be. Pretty much the perfect player in his prime.

[pack15412]

Best baseball game ever.

Watch on YouTube

[KobesScarf]

Very good. In the last 40 years I would have him around 11-15ish as an all around player.

Bonds A-Rod Ripken Pujols Schmidt and Henderson are on a different level above Griffey.

Brett, Yount Boggs and Pudge Rodriguez are same level but I would put them clearly above Griffey. Guys like Manny Thomas Chipper are on his level

[HMFFL]

Greatest player I've ever seen in my 30 years. Getting to Watch him in person was amazing. Haven't seen anyone play a better centerfield. He was as clutch as could be. Pretty much the perfect player in his prime.

I would have to say Andruw Jones was the better in center. Jr was second.

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[unclephils]

Griffey was essentially Willie Mays before he went to the Reds. I’d have him behind only Mays, Cobb and Charleston in that order in center field.

Griffey pre-injury compared to Mays:

Early careers:
Willie Mays 20-21: .266/.349/.459/.808/116 OPS+ averaging: 144 G, 606 PA, 78 hits, 12 doubles, 7 triples, 12 HR, 46 RBI, 6 SB's, 2 CS, 267 TB
Ken Griffey 19-22: .301/.366/.494/.860/138 OPS+ averaging: 78 G, 334 PA's, 163 hits, 33 doubles, 3 triples, 22 HR, 86 RBI, 15 SB, 7 CS, 136 TB

This deserves a deeper look though...
Both debuted as professionals age 17:

Willie Mays age 17 in 1948: At age 16-17 in 1948 Mays played in the Negro Leagues with defending champion Birmingham Black Barons of the Negro American League. His arm stood out most at first. He hit .262 in 61 AB. He played only in weekend home games because his parents insisted he finish high school whose team he was now ineligible for. He played in two NeL World Series playing well in both.

Seamheads NeL database: Willie Mays age 17 in 1948: .250/.339/.288/.627/73 OPS+ in 15 G with 59 PA, 13 hits, 2 doubles, 7 RBI, 7 runs

1948 NeL World Series: In the Negro American League playoff series against the Kansas City Monarchs, his two-out, bases-loaded single in the bottom of the 11th broke a 4-4 tie and gave the Black Barons a Game One victory. His double in the bottom of the ninth in Game Two drove in future Giants teammate Artie Wilson with the tying run that sent the contest into extra innings. Another ninth-inning double in Game Three seems to have preceded a game-winning homer by teammate Jimmy Zapp, but the details are sketchy. What is not sketchy is that the Black Barons won three consecutive one-run games before the series moved to Kansas City. Mays tripled and scored in a losing effort in Game Seven (there had been one rain-shortened tie) and made the final putout in the clincher.

Willie played in the final Negro League World Series in 1948 when the Black Barons lost to the Homestead Grays. In Game Three of the Series, he made two sparking defensive plays, chasing down a Bob Thurman fly in the fourth and gunning down Buck Leonard trying to go from first to third in the sixth. A scorching single through the box in the ninth drove in Bill Greason with the winning run for a 4-3 Birmingham victory. Leonard, a power-hitting first baseman on that Grays squad, had this scouting report on his 17-year-old opponent, “He could run and he could throw. He wasn’t hitting so good, because at that time he couldn’t hit a curveball.” - SABR

Ken Griffey Jr. age 17 in 1987: Mariners picked him first overall and he hit .313/.445/.604/1.049 in 54 G with 228 PA for short season single A Bellingham.

Age 18:

Willie Mays age 18 in 1949: batted .311 in 75 games for the Black Barons.
Ken Griffey age 18 in 1988: hit .338/.431/.575/1.007 in 58 games of A ball with San Bernadino and .279/.353/.492/.845 in 17 games at AA Vermont.

Ages 19 and rookie seasons:

Willie Mays age 19 in 1950: He continued to tear the cover off the ball in 1950, starting the year batting .330 and slugging .547. With more major league teams developing an interest in signing young black players, Mays was obviously attracting attention. He then hit .353 in 306 AB with class B (modern AA) Trenton stating: “No league that included Satchel Paige and Josh Gibson was a Class B league."

Ken Griffey Jr. age 19 in 1989: See below...

Rookie year:
Willie Mays age 20: .274/.356/.472/.828/120 OPS+ in 121 G with 523 PA, 127 hits, 22 doubles, 5 triples, 20 HR, 68 RBI, 59 runs, 7 SB, 4 CS, 219 TB, RoY-1
Ken Griffey age 19: .264/.329/.420/.748/108 OPS+ in 127 G with 506 PA, 120 hits, 23 doubles, no triples, 16 HR, 61 RBI, 61 runs, 16 SB, 7 CS, 191 TB, RoY-3

Mays came up after hitting .477 in 35 games with AAA Minneapolis. He immediately took over in CF for Bobby Thompson who would hit the 'Shot Heard Round the World' with Mays in the on deck circle. Griffey made the Mariners out of spring training. The next season Mays was drafted into the Army due to the Korean War after just 34 games. He figured he played 180 games in the service.

3 game playoff with Brooklyn: 1-7, BB
World Series: hit .182/.25/.182 with 24 PA in the 6 game loss to the Yankees.

Next came Willie’s lost weekend in the Army while Griffey becomes an all-star, gold glove caliber, MVP darkhorse:

Second year:
Willie Mays played just 34 games and wasn't lighting the world on fire but it's a long season. This is a non-season.
Ken Griffey Jr.: .300/.366/.481/.847/136 OPS+ in 155 G with 666 PA, 179 hits, 28 doubles, 7 triples, 22 HR, 80 RBI, 91 runs, 16 SB, 11 CS, 287 TB, AS, GG

Third year:
Willie Mays tweaked his ankle playing ball in the Army. Durocher asked him to stop. Personally doubt he did.
Ken Griffey Jr.: .327/.399/.527/.926/155 OPS+ in 154 G with 633 PA, 179 hits, 42 doubles, 1 triple, 22 HR, 100 RBI, 76 runs, 18 SB, 9 CS, 289 TB, AS, GG, MVP-9, SS

Mays breaks out while Griffey has yet to become a serious MVP candidate:

Coming back from the military there were those that doubted the significance of Mays presence in '51 and he was frequently considered overrated. Haha...

Fourth year:
Willie Mays: .345/.411/.667/1.078/175 OPS+ in 151 G with 641 PA, 195 hits, 33 doubles, 13 triples, 41 HR, 115 RBI, 119 runs, 8 SB, 5 CS, 377 TB, AS, MVP-1
Ken Griffey Jr.: .308/.361/.535/.896/155 OPS+ in 142 G with 617 PA, 174 hits, 39 doubles, 4 triples, 28 HR, 103 RBI, 83 runs, 10 SB, 5 SB, 302 TB, AS (MVP), GG

Mays had a season for the ages and led the Giants to a World Series sweep of the Cleveland Indians. He made the most famous catch in baseball history this series. It would be his last fall classic until 1973.

World Series: .286/.444/.357/.802 with 4 hits, double, 3 RBI, 4 run, SB

Now come the peak of their 20's that solidified their greatness and made them Hall of Famer’s.

Ages 23-29:
Willie Mays: .325/.396/.604/.999/164 averaging 152 G, 662 PA, 189 hits, 30 doubles, 12 triples, 36 HR, 103 RBI, 115 runs, 28 SB, 8 CS, 352 TB
Ken Griffey: .297/.387/.613/1.000/155 averaging 137 G, 609 PA, 156 hits, 27 doubles, 3 triples, 44 HR's, 115 RBI, 107 runs, 15 SB, 5 CS, 321 TB

Griffey missed 40 games due to the '94 strike and played just 72 in '95 due to an 18 game delay from the players strike and then breaking his wrist on the spiderman catch.

Willie Mays avg.: 7 dWAR, 11 Rfield, 34 Rbaser, 9 WAR
Ken Griffey avg.: 8.2 dWAR, 9 Rfield, 19 Rbaser, 7 WAR

1995 ALDS, 3-2 W v. NYY: .391/.444/1.083/1.488 with 9 hits, 5 HR, 9 RBI, 9 runs, SB, scored winning run in game 5 and tied the record for HR in a postseason series.
1995 ALCS, 4-2 L v. CLE: .333/.440/.571/1.011 with 7 hits, 4 doubles, HR, 2 RBI, 2 runs, 2 SB, CS

1997 ALDS, 3-1 L v. BAL: .133/.188/.133/.321 with 2 hits, 2 RBI, 2 SB

Willie Mays: 7x AS, 4x GG, MVP-1, 2, 3, 4, 4, 6
Ken Griffey: 7x AS, 7x GG, MVP-1, 2, 4, 4, 5 (6x SS)

The gold glove award was created in '57 and no SS in Mays's time. Mays made 9 all-star games due to there being 2 games in '59 and '60. Safe to say Griffey and Mays would have won the SS and GG every year barring health and not having the awards exist.

Career totals thru age 29:
Willie Mays 9 yrs: .317/.390/.585/.975/158 OPS+, 1218 G, 5301 PA, 1481 hits, 233 doubles, 91 triples, 279 HR, 812 RBI's, 884 runs, 204 SB, 63 CS, 2733 TB
Ken Griffey 11 yrs: .299/.380/.569/.948/149 OPS+, 1535 G, 6688 PA, 1742 hits, 320 doubles, 30 triples, 398 HR, 1152 RBI, 1063 runs, 167 SB, 60 CS, 3316 TB

Willie Mays: 8.2 dWAR, 90 Rfield, 35 Rbaser, 68.3 WAR (1218 games)
Ken Griffey: 10.3 dWAR, 73 Rfield, 23 Rbaser, 70.7 WAR (1535 games)

Mays, Griffey, A-Rod and Brady Anderson are the only players to ever have a 50 HR/20 SB season.

Best seasons hitting, career through age 29:

1. Mays '54: .345/.411/.667/1.078/175 OPS+ in 151 G with 641 PA, 195 hits, 33 doubles, 13 triples, 41 HR, 115 RBI, 119 runs, 8 SB's, 5 CS, 377 TB, AS, MVP-1
1. Griffey '97: .304/.384/.646/1.028/165 OPS+ in 157 G with 704 PA, 185 hits, 34 doubles, 3 triples, 56 HR's, 147 RBI, 125 runs, 15 SB, 4 CS, 393 TB, AS, MVP-1, GG, SS

1a World Series: .286/.444/.357/.802 with 4 hits, double, 3 RBI, 4 run, SB, made the famous Vic Wertz catch in sweep of the Indians
1a ALDS, 3-1 L v. BAL: .133/.188/.133/.321 with 2 hits, 2 RBI, 2 SB

2. Mays '55: .319/.400/.659/1.059/174 OPS+ with 670 PA, 185 hits, 18 doubles, 13 triples, 51 HR, 127 RBI, 123 runs, 24 SB, 4 CS, 382 TB, AS, MVP-4
2. Griffey '93: .309/.408/.617/1.025/171 OPS+ with 691 PA, 180 hits, 38 doubles, 3 triples, 45 HR, 109 RBI, 113 runs, 17 SB, 9 CS, 359 TB, AS, MVP-5, GG, SS

3. Mays '57: .333/.407/.626/1.033/173 OPS+ with 669 PA, 195 hits, 26 doubles, 20 triples, 35 HR, 97 RBI, 112 runs, 38 SB, 19 CS, 366 TB, AS, MVP-4, GG
3. Griffey '94: .323/.402/.647/1.073/171 OPS+ with 493 PA, 140 hits, 24 doubles, 4 triples, 40 HR's, 90 RBI, 94 runs, 11 steals, 3 CS, 292 TB, AS, MVP-2, GG, SS

4. Mays '58: .347/.419/.583/1.002/165 OPS+ with 685 PA, 208 hits, 33 doubles, 11 triples, 29 HR, 96 RBI, 121 runs, 31 SB, 6 CS, 350 TB, AS, MVP-2, GG
4. Griffey '96: .303/.392/.628/1.020/154 OPS+ with 638 PA, 165 hits, 26 doubles, 2 triples, 49 HR,140 RBI, 125 runs, 16 SB, 1 CS, 342 TB, AS, MVP-2, GG, SS

5. Mays '59: .313/.381/.583/.964/156 OPS+ with 649 PA, 180 hits, 43 doubles, 5 triples, 34 HR, 104 RBI, 125 runs, 27 SB, 4 CS, 335 TB, AS 2x, MVP-6, GG
5. Griffey '98: .284/.365/.611/.977/150 OPS+ with 720 PA, 180 hits, 33 doubles, 3 triples, 56 HR, 146 RBI, 120 runs, 20 SB, 5 CS, 387 TB, AS, MVP-4, GG, SS

6. Mays '60: .319/.381/.555/.936/160 OPS+ with 669 PA, 190 hits, 29 doubles, 12 triples, 29 HR, 106 RBI, 107 runs, 25 SB, 10 CS, 322 TB, AS 2x, MVP-3, GG
6. Griffey '99: .285/.374/.576/.960/139 OPS+ with 706 PA, 173 hits, 26 doubles, 3 triples, 48 HR's, 134 RBI, 123 runs, 24 SB, 7 CS, 349 TB, AS, MVP-10, GG, SS

7. Mays '56: .296/.369/.557/.926/146 OPS+ with 651 PA, 171 hits, 27 doubles, 8 triples, 36 HR, 84 RBI, 101 runs, 40 SB, 10 CS, 322 TB, AS, MVP-17
7. Griffey '91: .327/.391/.527/.926/155 OPS+ with 633 PA, 179 hits, 42 doubles, 1 triple, 22 HR, 100 RBI, 76 runs, 18 SB, 6 CS, 289 TB, AS, MVP-9, GG, SS

[Kenny Griffin]

Griffey was the best clean player i ever witnessed with my own 2 eyes. people forget that he was not just a clean player during a steroid era. but the pitchers he faced were on them as well. so he was facing guys with cannon arms and crazy longevity. tons of movement with little wear and tear.

had he never gotten hurt he easily hits 800+ homeruns.

his influence on the generation was huge. most popular player of the 90's

he made a spectacular catch seemingly every game

he had a great arm and good speed

he could put the ball in play and didn't just have to settle for homeruns

in his brief playoff appearance he was top notch setting records and eliminating top teams

hes the willie mays of his era. a top 10 player all time.


#1 Babe Ruth
#2 Willie Mays
#3 Hank Aaron
#4 Ty Cobb
#5 Stan Musial
#6 Ted Williams
#7 Ken Griffey Jr
#8 Lou Gehrig
#9 Rickey Henderson
#10 Mickey Mantle



don't rank pitchers or cheaters. if i did bonds would be top 2 and Aroid would be top 7 or 8

[Harry Palmer]

Best swing I ever saw live or on film. Effortless power, like he was sweeping leaves with a broom, or fly fishing or similar.

(I have never fly-fished in my life so don’t come at me if it’s high intensity, it looks smooth and clean.)

[Harry Palmer]

Griffey was the best clean player i ever witnessed with my own 2 eyes. people forget that he was not just a clean player during a steroid era. but the pitchers he faced were on them as well. so he was facing guys with cannon arms and crazy longevity. tons of movement with little wear and tear.

had he never gotten hurt he easily hits 800+ homeruns.

his influence on the generation was huge. most popular player of the 90's

he made a spectacular catch seemingly every game

he had a great arm and good speed

he could put the ball in play and didn't just have to settle for homeruns

in his brief playoff appearance he was top notch setting records and eliminating top teams

hes the willie mays of his era. a top 10 player all time.


#1 Babe Ruth
#2 Willie Mays
#3 Hank Aaron
#4 Ty Cobb
#5 Stan Musial
#6 Ted Williams
#7 Ken Griffey Jr
#8 Lou Gehrig
#9 Rickey Henderson
#10 Mickey Mantle



don't rank pitchers or cheaters. if i did bonds would be top 2 and Aroid would be top 7 or 8

No Ichiro?