Posted: Mon May 7, 2007 2:41 am
I really like watching Ortiz hit,but if I had to either take him or A-Rod,I'd have to take A-Rod,because he can atleast play in the field.
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maseda17 wrote:I'm a big Sox fan but it is Arod every day of the week. You don't pass on the gold glove SS who gets equal or BETTER production and actually has speed on the bases. Granted Ortiz is as clutch as they come over the past 2 years but I think Arod's tendency to "choke" is overblown by the media and relayed by Yankee fans. There really isn't a large sample of playoff games with which to base this assumption. Quite frankly I think he is a good guy and would love to see him opt out of his deal and come to Boston as we could move Lugo to 3rd.
ab5fan wrote:A-Rod because he can do so much. Ortiz can only hit bomb but when he doesn't he has to run and that's not pretty. A-Rod has better base running, and he also saved a child from being hit by a car, has Ortiz?
I'll take Papi + average 3B over ARod + average DH.
According to UZR Manny cost his team about 30 runs per 150 games.
I'd be absolutely shocked if Manny's fielding/throwing actually cost the team more than a HANDFUL of actual runs in actual games.
I want to know what a bad fielder actually costs his team in runs, and what those runs meant in the individual games.
If Manny's team is up by 6 on a 3 run homer by him and he commits a 2-run error and the Sox still win, who the F really cares about the fielding?
We still measure Runs Batted In
bigboy1234 wrote:I'd be absolutely shocked if Manny's fielding/throwing actually cost the team more than a HANDFUL of actual runs in actual games.
You can't be serious.
I want to know what a bad fielder actually costs his team in runs, and what those runs meant in the individual games.
If Manny's team is up by 6 on a 3 run homer by him and he commits a 2-run error and the Sox still win, who the F really cares about the fielding?
We still measure Runs Batted In
I'm quite serious.
The buck stops at fielders, dude. There's no such stat as a "Pitching-Independent Fielding" a.f.a.i.k. And actually, I think allowing runs and earning wins is an underrated part of measuring pitching, used to be the only way sure which was bad, but now it's almost totally ignored by Those-Who-Know-Better. If a SP gives a team 6 IP and allows 4 ER he looks like **** in the box score, but if his team was up by a few runs when he left, that should count for something, possibly for quite a lot. He did enough to win, to win that game. Baseball is about winning games. Actual games.
"Up by 6", dude.
Also, that's precisely what I want to know, when has his defense actually cost the team wins.
LMAO. Right, because the game of baseball exists theoretically inside a big calculator now.
It used to be played by actual humans, who competed in actual individual games. Oh well.
Humans suck anyway, their emotional lives often get in the way of good ol' mathematical odds.
bigboy1234 wrote:No, every play has a significance. If a SP gives up 4 ER that doesn't mean he had a bad game, he could have struckout 18 guys and walked no one but given up a couple bloop or dribble hits, then someone hits a HR. Thus giving him 4 ER, is that a bad game no, thats bad luck. Do you think Clay Buchholz sucks balls because this year he has 5.74 RA
Um, name one respectable person that uses RBI, please. And don't name Peter Gammons. Name someone who actual analyzes baseball. Apparently you haven't noticed but almost all baseball teams are hiring sabermetricians now and people like Bill Bavasi are on their way out, and for good reason. David Murphy has more RBI than Chipper Jones, thus he must be a better hitter.
The calculator isn't the only thing that says Manny Ramirez sucks at defense. Everyone knows and sees it. To say that he only cost his team only a handful of runs is absolutely ludicrous. If Manny has only cost his team a handful of runs in your eyes Derek Jeter must have somehow saved a couple runs at defense. Or do you not think defense matters much at all and it's all about offense? I'm guessing you think it's all about offense.