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Damon v. Ichiro...Does anyone agree with this???
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 2:37 am
by 34Celtic
cmaff051 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Man, the offensive stats don't lie.
Damon
2005 - 113 OPS+
2006 - 120 OPS+
Ichiro
2005 - 109 OPS+
2006 - 109 OPS+
You want to believe what you want to believe? Fine. But the offensive stats don't lie. Damon is the better offensive player.
Because I don't
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 2:51 am
by cmaff051
What's not to agree with? The stats say Damon is a better offensive player over the last 2 years.
End of story.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 3:02 am
by 34Celtic
The stats say that....my eyes tell me differently.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 3:24 am
by OSBB
34Celtic wrote:The stats say that....my eyes tell me differently.
You can pick up things by watching that the stats can't?
The stats don't lie.
Damon '05: .237 RC/OUT
Ichiro '05: .219 RC/OUT
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 3:43 am
by Bleeding Green
It's a marginal difference and Ichiro is a better defender and baserunner so who cares?
Plus Damon sucks now.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 3:44 am
by 34Celtic
if you know anything about baseball you can pick up things stats cant
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 3:48 am
by OSBB
34Celtic wrote:if you know anything about baseball you can pick up things stats cant
Such as?
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 3:59 am
by 34Celtic
OldSchoolBBall wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Such as?
Dude just by watching players play....Catchers how they block balls in the dirt and stop runners from advancing....first basemen with picks on bad throws. Infielders first steps and how the break back on pop ups. OF's first break on a ball and how quickly they can track something down. I think range factor is the most overrated stat. Pitchers throwing at a hitters head during a squeeze play so the hitter cant get down a bunt. A hitter hitting the ball to the right side with no one out and a guy on second. An OF throwing the ball to the wrong base, letting a runner advance, allowing him to score on a ball he shouldnt. OF arms holding runners to a single instead of a double. Pitchers being able to hold inherited runners in late innings. I could go on all day. I'm not saying Damon doesn't do the little things, he does....Ichiro just does them better
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:17 am
by cmaff051
Bleeding Green wrote:It's a marginal difference and Ichiro is a better defender and baserunner so who cares?
Plus Damon sucks now.
It's funny how Damon sucks now just because he missed two flyballs in Clippard's start versus the Angels? Did you watch him tonight? He was juist as good in the outfield as he's always been.
Not to mention he's 10x the hitter Coco Crisp is.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:23 am
by mets87
lol, i have a better arm than johnny damon and it's not like his range is anything special. ichiro is better.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:46 am
by Bleeding Green
cmaff051 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
It's funny how Damon sucks now just because he missed two flyballs in Clippard's start versus the Angels? Did you watch him tonight? He was juist as good in the outfield as he's always been.
Not to mention he's 10x the hitter Coco Crisp is.
No, I'm talking about overall he sucks. He's hitting .260/.361/.351.
For the record, Coco Crisp is hitting significantly worse. Though that has little to do with Ichiro v. Damon.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 1:45 pm
by BS007
The hell with these random stats, OPS, RCU, FU (made that one up)... Ichiro is a better offensive player.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 1:59 pm
by Basketball Jesus
Damon
2005 - .294 EqA
2006 - .295 EqA
Ichiro!
2005 - .293 EqA
2006 - .297 EqA
Damon
2005
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 3:29 pm
by 34Celtic
BS007 wrote:The hell with these random stats, OPS, RCU, FU (made that one up)... Ichiro is a better offensive player.
Thank you, WARP too. These numbers are just a judgement for people who don't have eyes to see what wins ball games. I'm not knocking Johnny Damon but Ichiro is a more valuable player to have on your team.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:18 pm
by Basketball Jesus
My eyes are fine, as are my cognitive skills. Hence why I understand statistics and don't automatically discredit them for lack of understanding.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:29 pm
by HCYanks
Basketball Jesus wrote:My eyes are fine, as are my cognitive skills. Hence why I understand statistics and don't automatically discredit them for lack of understanding.
"Fine" eyes work as long as you want to base much of your judgement off of this silly calculated nonsense. But to see what's
really going on, you need to voyage to the desolate island of Stubborntraditionalistia and steal the eyes of one of the natives.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:56 pm
by 34Celtic
Theres a reason no baseball players are mathematicians. You don't need a number to tell you that a lefty hitter has trouble picking up breaking pitches from lefthanded pitchers. The numbers are there to help people who can't see things make a judgement. I remember Bill James say a closer by committee works just as well as a regular closer. his statistical analysis told him so..... This was when he was with the Red Sox. Go ask him how his Brandon Lyon Byung Hyun Kim experiment worked out.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:18 pm
by Basketball Jesus
34Celtic wrote:Theres a reason no baseball players are mathematicians.
Because they
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 6:01 pm
by cmaff051
34celtic is a son of a scout I believe... so his viewpoint is understandable, I suppose.
Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 6:24 pm
by Basketball Jesus
Is he now? Pretty sweet.