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Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft.

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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#821 » by Duke4life831 » Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:36 pm

Whole Truth wrote:Sometimes I wonder if I just see the game different. Some fans were talking about the teams defense being the main problem last night.. As you point out Duke, Pels had only 2 players going offensively. Heat were playing with high condifedence on both ends. They got away with holding & grabbin on defense/boards, u can call it defensive reputation if u want, they weren't allowed anywhere near those calls vs LA without AD & Lebron, lol. So with Pels struggling to put the ball in the hoop as a collective, there's just a different confidence on offense when u not worried about stopping another team.. There was no defensive pressure on the Heat all night..

They double Jonas early got a couple TO's out of it & the rest of the game was the guards cheaply turning the ball over & putting up bricks where Jonas defense can't play in high inefficiecny.

Took Green 4 quarter to figure out how to get Jonas involved offensively with the game out of reach. I recomend him pulling some tape when Jonas dominated Bam with Memphis playing with (2nd yr Ja, Allen, Brooks, Anderson)..

Speaking of Allen & your intertest in him.. Watched him in Memphis.. He was inconsistent & often injured. Bucks showed interest & r now putting him back on the market. U migh like his game & fit but I see a red flag.


When it comes to Grayson, he’s a better player now than he was in Memphis. He’s now on his 4th straight year of at least 39% from 3. Also important to keep the context of what the expectation is. Grayson makes under 10 mil a year, Grayson isn’t a move to get another star. Grayson would be a move to upgrade Graham’s rotation spot. The idea is to get a cheap sharpshooting guard off the bench.

Also the Bucks are pretty public on why Grayson is available. Bucks are in desperate need of a wing defender. They match up horribly with Boston. And outside of their main core of guys, they don’t really have many guys with any trade value.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#822 » by Duke4life831 » Thu Jan 19, 2023 8:14 pm

Whole Truth wrote:Concerning BI... lack of confidence, in what?, his game or the fact he's scared he may get injured again ?

Is it possible he's making a different point by sitting ? I read somewhere he was not happy about his usage & role with Zion playing in the past. Was there any friction with him before injury ?


Late December he said he is just working on getting his confidence to push off with that foot. I totally get that, but if the toe is healed and there is no risk of any further damage and we are talking about most of this being a mental obsticle to get over. Dude the team needs you out there. There is only a 3.5 game difference from where they're now and the 6th seed (aka play in). And the team is beginning to slip.

Also just saw this article right now
https://www.si.com/nba/pelicans/nba/pelicans-frustrated-brandon-ingram-toe-injury

A bruised toe that was initially listed as day to day is just a few days away from being something that has held him out for 2 months. Reports almost a month old saying its now just a confidence issue and the ball is in his court on when to return.

Again not ashamed to admit my bias and fandom for this dude. But I also cant blame the Pels front office at all for people quietly getting frustrated with this.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#823 » by Whole Truth » Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:40 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:Sometimes I wonder if I just see the game different. Some fans were talking about the teams defense being the main problem last night.. As you point out Duke, Pels had only 2 players going offensively. Heat were playing with high condifedence on both ends. They got away with holding & grabbin on defense/boards, u can call it defensive reputation if u want, they weren't allowed anywhere near those calls vs LA without AD & Lebron, lol. So with Pels struggling to put the ball in the hoop as a collective, there's just a different confidence on offense when u not worried about stopping another team.. There was no defensive pressure on the Heat all night..

They double Jonas early got a couple TO's out of it & the rest of the game was the guards cheaply turning the ball over & putting up bricks where Jonas defense can't play in high inefficiecny.

Took Green 4 quarter to figure out how to get Jonas involved offensively with the game out of reach. I recomend him pulling some tape when Jonas dominated Bam with Memphis playing with (2nd yr Ja, Allen, Brooks, Anderson)..

Speaking of Allen & your intertest in him.. Watched him in Memphis.. He was inconsistent & often injured. Bucks showed interest & r now putting him back on the market. U migh like his game & fit but I see a red flag.


When it comes to Grayson, he’s a better player now than he was in Memphis. He’s now on his 4th straight year of at least 39% from 3. Also important to keep the context of what the expectation is. Grayson makes under 10 mil a year, Grayson isn’t a move to get another star. Grayson would be a move to upgrade Graham’s rotation spot. The idea is to get a cheap sharpshooting guard off the bench.

Also the Bucks are pretty public on why Grayson is available. Bucks are in desperate need of a wing defender. They match up horribly with Boston. And outside of their main core of guys, they don’t really have many guys with any trade value.


Bucks won't say anything that will lower his value. What I see is 2 teams that targeted his game & quickly moved on for whatever reason..

For argument sake. Lets say your stated asking price is the cost, which defensive wing u ttading for him ?

IMO not an ideal trade scenario, I don't think any of Trey, Herb or Daniels should be on the market unless it's a clear upgrade.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#824 » by Whole Truth » Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:48 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:Concerning BI... lack of confidence, in what?, his game or the fact he's scared he may get injured again ?

Is it possible he's making a different point by sitting ? I read somewhere he was not happy about his usage & role with Zion playing in the past. Was there any friction with him before injury ?


Late December he said he is just working on getting his confidence to push off with that foot. I totally get that, but if the toe is healed and there is no risk of any further damage and we are talking about most of this being a mental obsticle to get over. Dude the team needs you out there. There is only a 3.5 game difference from where they're now and the 6th seed (aka play in). And the team is beginning to slip.

Also just saw this article right now
https://www.si.com/nba/pelicans/nba/pelicans-frustrated-brandon-ingram-toe-injury

A bruised toe that was initially listed as day to day is just a few days away from being something that has held him out for 2 months. Reports almost a month old saying its now just a confidence issue and the ball is in his court on when to return.

Again not ashamed to admit my bias and fandom for this dude. But I also cant blame the Pels front office at all for people quietly getting frustrated with this.


It's never easy to understand what people are going through mentally & it can be more than frustrating. Unfortunately without direct contact with Ingram, I wouldn't touch this situation with guess work. What professional help have NO's brought in to help his mental state ? If none, you'd have to question the fact..

Personally, I think there's more to it than a confidence issue..
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#825 » by Whole Truth » Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:08 pm

With Spurs asking 2 firsts for Poeltl, I think I'm coming around on your other potential target Duke.

Miles Turner.

(Hayes, Graham, pick comp) for (Turner)
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#826 » by Whole Truth » Fri Jan 20, 2023 6:48 pm

Latest rumored asking price for OG -

- Two promising players on team-friendly deals and a pick.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#827 » by Duke4life831 » Fri Jan 20, 2023 7:33 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:Sometimes I wonder if I just see the game different. Some fans were talking about the teams defense being the main problem last night.. As you point out Duke, Pels had only 2 players going offensively. Heat were playing with high condifedence on both ends. They got away with holding & grabbin on defense/boards, u can call it defensive reputation if u want, they weren't allowed anywhere near those calls vs LA without AD & Lebron, lol. So with Pels struggling to put the ball in the hoop as a collective, there's just a different confidence on offense when u not worried about stopping another team.. There was no defensive pressure on the Heat all night..

They double Jonas early got a couple TO's out of it & the rest of the game was the guards cheaply turning the ball over & putting up bricks where Jonas defense can't play in high inefficiecny.

Took Green 4 quarter to figure out how to get Jonas involved offensively with the game out of reach. I recomend him pulling some tape when Jonas dominated Bam with Memphis playing with (2nd yr Ja, Allen, Brooks, Anderson)..

Speaking of Allen & your intertest in him.. Watched him in Memphis.. He was inconsistent & often injured. Bucks showed interest & r now putting him back on the market. U migh like his game & fit but I see a red flag.


When it comes to Grayson, he’s a better player now than he was in Memphis. He’s now on his 4th straight year of at least 39% from 3. Also important to keep the context of what the expectation is. Grayson makes under 10 mil a year, Grayson isn’t a move to get another star. Grayson would be a move to upgrade Graham’s rotation spot. The idea is to get a cheap sharpshooting guard off the bench.

Also the Bucks are pretty public on why Grayson is available. Bucks are in desperate need of a wing defender. They match up horribly with Boston. And outside of their main core of guys, they don’t really have many guys with any trade value.


Bucks won't say anything that will lower his value. What I see is 2 teams that targeted his game & quickly moved on for whatever reason..

For argument sake. Lets say your stated asking price is the cost, which defensive wing u ttading for him ?

IMO not an ideal trade scenario, I don't think any of Trey, Herb or Daniels should be on the market unless it's a clear upgrade.


Oh like I said I doubt it happens because it would need a 3rd team. I agree the only player close to a wing that should be up to move for him is Temple and Bucks wont do that.

Again my entire point in all of this is getting someone like Allen/Kispert/Bojan and so on (obviously asking price for Bojan is much higher). I think guys like that bring something that this roster really lacks. A legit sharpshooter who knows how to move off the ball. Out of the 3 guys I just listed, Allen would be 3rd on my list in order of guys I would want. But he would also be the cheapest. Because again there is only 3 good volume shooters on this team (BI/CJ/Trey) and none of them move off the ball well. 2 on ball scorers and a set shot guy.

I just think those are the two biggest holes with the team.

1. A stretch big that can rim protect
2. An off ball mover who can really shoot.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#828 » by Whole Truth » Fri Jan 20, 2023 8:09 pm

Was up on the Raps board getting a feel for what they'd want for OG.

One poster says one of Herb or Murphy, one of Daniels or Naji & a future frtst. Jax's potential could be considered in that 2nd teir. They also like Mitchell & Murray from Sacramento.

What Pels have working in their favor besides the abundance of pick value & the Lakers 23.. is they can't play both Herb & Murphy with the starters if they're jealthy, if they were to entertain the thought of OG.

It's a tough call... I think Herb is a more winning player than Murphy but Murphy is the biggest 3pt "threat" on the team outside CJ but as I mentioned with BI healthy only one can fit, I'd take Herb off the bench in a shortened rotation over Murphy as Murphy's game would be rmore elient on Zion's gravity ..

I would also like to pair Daniels Herb & OG's perimeter defense & swithcability. Either or both Herb & Daniels find range, it's over.

(Murphy, Jax, Kira, Graham & Buicks unprotected 27) for (OG, Bousche).

Jonas/Boucher/Nance
Zion
OG/Herb/Maji/
BI
CJ/Daniels/Alvarado
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#829 » by Duke4life831 » Sat Jan 21, 2023 8:29 pm

Whole Truth wrote:Was up on the Raps board getting a feel for what they'd want for OG.

One poster says one of Herb or Murphy, one of Daniels or Naji & a future frtst. Jax's potential could be considered in that 2nd teir. They also like Mitchell & Murray from Sacramento.

What Pels have working in their favor besides the abundance of pick value & the Lakers 23.. is they can't play both Herb & Murphy with the starters if they're jealthy, if they were to entertain the thought of OG.

It's a tough call... I think Herb is a more winning player than Murphy but Murphy is the biggest 3pt "threat" on the team outside CJ but as I mentioned with BI healthy only one can fit, I'd take Herb off the bench in a shortened rotation over Murphy as Murphy's game would be rmore elient on Zion's gravity ..

I would also like to pair Daniels Herb & OG's perimeter defense & swithcability. Either or both Herb & Daniels find range, it's over.

(Murphy, Jax, Kira, Graham & Buicks unprotected 27) for (OG, Bousche).

Jonas/Boucher/Nance
Zion
OG/Herb/Maji/
BI
CJ/Daniels/Alvarado


In this scenario I would rather give up Herb. Herb's primary job is to lock up the opposing team's best perimeter player, OG can do that. OG is a solid shooter but not a great shooter. Then with Dyson coming off the bench, you already have the really good defender who doesnt bring much offense role taken, dont think you need 2 of them. Plus I dont think this team is in the position to give up its best 3pt shooter.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#830 » by Whole Truth » Sat Jan 21, 2023 9:58 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:Was up on the Raps board getting a feel for what they'd want for OG.

One poster says one of Herb or Murphy, one of Daniels or Naji & a future frtst. Jax's potential could be considered in that 2nd teir. They also like Mitchell & Murray from Sacramento.

What Pels have working in their favor besides the abundance of pick value & the Lakers 23.. is they can't play both Herb & Murphy with the starters if they're jealthy, if they were to entertain the thought of OG.

It's a tough call... I think Herb is a more winning player than Murphy but Murphy is the biggest 3pt "threat" on the team outside CJ but as I mentioned with BI healthy only one can fit, I'd take Herb off the bench in a shortened rotation over Murphy as Murphy's game would be rmore elient on Zion's gravity ..

I would also like to pair Daniels Herb & OG's perimeter defense & swithcability. Either or both Herb & Daniels find range, it's over.

(Murphy, Jax, Kira, Graham & Buicks unprotected 27) for (OG, Bousche).

Jonas/Boucher/Nance
Zion
OG/Herb/Maji/
BI
CJ/Daniels/Alvarado


In this scenario I would rather give up Herb. Herb's primary job is to lock up the opposing team's best perimeter player, OG can do that. OG is a solid shooter but not a great shooter. Then with Dyson coming off the bench, you already have the really good defender who doesnt bring much offense role taken, dont think you need 2 of them. Plus I dont think this team is in the position to give up its best 3pt shooter.


That's with BI out. BI healthy, OG replaces both Herb & Murphy in the starting rotation.

Hypothetical, who do you think would be easier to replace in trade by dratfing.. Herb or Murphy ?.

Long term thinking/planing.. I trade Murphy before Herb though Murphy is currently the better fit & greater need.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#831 » by Duke4life831 » Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:10 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:Was up on the Raps board getting a feel for what they'd want for OG.

One poster says one of Herb or Murphy, one of Daniels or Naji & a future frtst. Jax's potential could be considered in that 2nd teir. They also like Mitchell & Murray from Sacramento.

What Pels have working in their favor besides the abundance of pick value & the Lakers 23.. is they can't play both Herb & Murphy with the starters if they're jealthy, if they were to entertain the thought of OG.

It's a tough call... I think Herb is a more winning player than Murphy but Murphy is the biggest 3pt "threat" on the team outside CJ but as I mentioned with BI healthy only one can fit, I'd take Herb off the bench in a shortened rotation over Murphy as Murphy's game would be rmore elient on Zion's gravity ..

I would also like to pair Daniels Herb & OG's perimeter defense & swithcability. Either or both Herb & Daniels find range, it's over.

(Murphy, Jax, Kira, Graham & Buicks unprotected 27) for (OG, Bousche).

Jonas/Boucher/Nance
Zion
OG/Herb/Maji/
BI
CJ/Daniels/Alvarado


In this scenario I would rather give up Herb. Herb's primary job is to lock up the opposing team's best perimeter player, OG can do that. OG is a solid shooter but not a great shooter. Then with Dyson coming off the bench, you already have the really good defender who doesnt bring much offense role taken, dont think you need 2 of them. Plus I dont think this team is in the position to give up its best 3pt shooter.


That's with BI out. BI healthy, OG replaces both Herb & Murphy in the starting rotation.

Hypothetical, who do you think would be easier to replace in trade by dratfing.. Herb or Murphy ?.

Long term thinking/planing.. I trade Murphy before Herb though Murphy is currently the better fit & greater need.


No Im talking with a healthy roster, this team still doesnt have enough shooters to get rid of their best shooter. Right now when healthy they have 3 reliable shooters (BI/CJ/Trey). You trade away Trey to get OG, you still only have 3 reliable shooters and you just went from a set shot sharpshooter in Trey to a solid career 37% 3pt shooter in OG. Then youre bringing 2 defense but nothing much on offense perimeter guys off the bench with Herb and Dyson.

Then on the flip side, if you use Herb to get OG. Youre trading one elite defender with another elite defender. So no drop off defensively. But now the team has 4 reliable shooters (BI/CJ/Trey/OG).
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#832 » by Whole Truth » Sun Jan 22, 2023 12:33 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:
Whole Truth wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
In this scenario I would rather give up Herb. Herb's primary job is to lock up the opposing team's best perimeter player, OG can do that. OG is a solid shooter but not a great shooter. Then with Dyson coming off the bench, you already have the really good defender who doesnt bring much offense role taken, dont think you need 2 of them. Plus I dont think this team is in the position to give up its best 3pt shooter.


That's with BI out. BI healthy, OG replaces both Herb & Murphy in the starting rotation.

Hypothetical, who do you think would be easier to replace in trade by dratfing.. Herb or Murphy ?.

Long term thinking/planing.. I trade Murphy before Herb though Murphy is currently the better fit & greater need.


No Im talking with a healthy roster, this team still doesnt have enough shooters to get rid of their best shooter. Right now when healthy they have 3 reliable shooters (BI/CJ/Trey). You trade away Trey to get OG, you still only have 3 reliable shooters and you just went from a set shot sharpshooter in Trey to a solid career 37% 3pt shooter in OG. Then youre bringing 2 defense but nothing much on offense perimeter guys off the bench with Herb and Dyson.

Then on the flip side, if you use Herb to get OG. Youre trading one elite defender with another elite defender. So no drop off defensively. But now the team has 4 reliable shooters (BI/CJ/Trey/OG).


IMO, Herb was better last yr & making offensive strides before his injury. I think Herb finds a reliable shot before Murphy gets the feel for the game & Elite defense Herb has. Notice the fall off Jose has had since his injury. Remember people talking about CJ's finger ?.. I think next yr & beyond Raptors would turn Herb into a 2 way monster.

Pels supposedly have an elite shooting coach but as a team struggle to make FT's.

Graham's career 3pt% is 35%, he shot 37% his last yr in Charlotte before trade & is currently shooting 32% with Zion playing.
NAW is a career 33%, he was shooting 31% when traded, he's now averaging 40% his first yr in Utah.

NAW 4 seasons in NO's - 34%, 34%, 31%, 31% regression. First yr in Utah, 40%.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#833 » by Whole Truth » Sun Jan 22, 2023 9:39 pm

If not for the 6 late successive TO's Pels would have took a double digit lead into the half shooting 20% from 3 on volume & 70% from the line...

It's a good thing Pels have a shooting Guru..

Give me the job, I feel I could hace this team shooting 20% on luck alone.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#834 » by Whole Truth » Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:14 pm

II will keep repeating it till it goes through..

Jonas 14/16 on 7-14 shooting +4

CJ 13/5 with 7 TO's on 5-16 shooting & team high -16

Nance was good & deserved his time (-3) but guess who found the bench to keep CJ on court.

Pels 8-30 from 3 with 24 TO's & lost by 4. With 2 stars out, Heat cam't feel too good about this win. Pels shooting coach on the other hand, needs to return from vacation.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#835 » by Whole Truth » Sat Jan 28, 2023 7:41 pm

Love Green letting the refs know what time it is.

Get your manipulated **** out of here, u corrupt filth.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#836 » by Duke4life831 » Sat Jan 28, 2023 10:57 pm

Alright so Ive read several things that Pels are looking to unload Graham/Hayes/Naji. The Naji part is the most surprising part in that, but I get it.

The thing I dont get is I just got done reading something about the Pels being interested in Collins, to then come on RealGM and see the same thing. I just dont get that fit. I dont see Collins and Zion being able to play together.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#837 » by Whole Truth » Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:23 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:Alright so Ive read several things that Pels are looking to unload Graham/Hayes/Naji. The Naji part is the most surprising part in that, but I get it.

The thing I dont get is I just got done reading something about the Pels being interested in Collins, to then come on RealGM and see the same thing. I just dont get that fit. I dont see Collins and Zion being able to play together.


Raptors looking for a big man.. possible 3 team deal ?

Maybe Collins but I know they wouls like to get Poeltl back & Spurs asking 2 1sts.. Might help Pels retain a player in trade.

Hayes, Graham/filler pick/s - Poeltl or Collins

Poeltl/Collins, Naji, Bucks unprotected or Lakers 23 for OG.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#838 » by Whole Truth » Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:28 pm

Keep the Lakers 24/25 - Trade NO's 24+25 with the stipulation, to convey the year when they take the Lakers pick.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#839 » by Duke4life831 » Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:32 pm

Whole Truth wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:Alright so Ive read several things that Pels are looking to unload Graham/Hayes/Naji. The Naji part is the most surprising part in that, but I get it.

The thing I dont get is I just got done reading something about the Pels being interested in Collins, to then come on RealGM and see the same thing. I just dont get that fit. I dont see Collins and Zion being able to play together.


Raptors looking for a big man.. possible 3 team deal ?

Maybe Collins but I know they wouls like to get Poeltl back & Spurs asking 2 1sts.. Might help Pels retain a player in trade.

Hayes, Graham/filler pick/s - Poeltl or Collins

Poeltl/Collins, Naji, Bucks unprotected or Lakers 23 for OG.


Id get going for Poeltl, even though I think if they go that route might as well unload Jonas. But at least with Poeltl I can see the point there, at least he can play with your best lineup when everyone is healthy. I just dont get the Collins fit though. When Zion is back, Collins and Zion wont be able to play together. You cant play with a 4/5 combo of Zion and Collins. And if the idea is to have him essentially just be another Nance off the bench. That is a lot of money to tie up for a guy like that. I dont know, I just dont like the idea of having that much money tied up in a guy that most likely cant play big minutes with your best player.
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Re: Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft. 

Post#840 » by Duke4life831 » Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:12 am

Ill say this, if the Pels are willing to spend a little in assets to make a move, I really think this is the perfect time to make a move for Myles Turner. With his new extension he is no longer just a half a season rental. He is now locked up for 2 more seasons and he is locked up at a very reasonable price at pretty much 20 mil a year. John Collins is making 25 mil a year. If youre going to make a splash move for someone making that kind of money, I would really like to see them make the move to get Turner.

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