Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft.

[Whole Truth]

While it's impossible to stop good scorers. Against teams like the Clippers & Suns, NO;s should be doing their best to contain their guard & wing play while Jonas & Zion go to work in the post. From the minute I see you start CJ, I know the game is already lost.

As in the pattern I showed in the previous post, CJ's shots go up, his efficiency goes down, his defense is weak sauce & in turn Jonas offensive usage dropping means their guards can advantage him in space.

Dumb solution = replacing Jonas to continue to try & beat these teams with CJ & a defensive center they don't have to worry about. Leave his man in the paint because he doesn't even attempt a 3.

& to make it worse, Herb's name is coming up... I want to vomit at this stupidity.

[Whole Truth]

Lakers discussing (Russell, Hood, Schifino, Picks) for (Murray).

Kiss the Laker 24/25 pick goodbye.

[Whole Truth]

Lakers, Heat & Bucks all showing interest in Murray but none have the assets NO's have. I'm going to make a last ditch appeal to your better judgement

2 lineups show, NO's can improve their starting unit by either replacing Jonas with Nance or CJ with Daniels

Lineup 1 - Jonas, Zion, BI, Herb, (Daniels ball pressure over CJ's spacing) = 90mins +20

Where Daniels is shooting a poultry 28% ----- Murray shoots 38% on volume.
Where Daniels has shaky handles ----- Murray has better ball security
Where Daniels PG skills are developing ----- Murray is a 2 way PG playing out of position in Atlanta at SG
Where CJ is 35m ----- Murray is a team friendly 18m
Where CJ has 2yrs control ------ Murray has 5
Where CJ is 32 ----- Murray is 27
Where CJ has peak value shooting 44% from 3 ----- Hawks are selling low because of fit/(small backcourt).

NO's moving Murray back to PG next to Herb's defense, regains his size advantage for a big defensive backcourt with 2 defenders shooting better than 35%, Murray on volume & because of CJ's contract, Okongwu as the filler gives NO's a mobile C that can switch 1-5 who's not a complete liability like Allen from 3 & improving. Also on a team friendly contract.


Lineup 2 - CJ, Herb, BI, Zion, (Nance rim protection over Jonas 3 level scoring & rebounding) = 28mins +20

Where Nance is shooting 45% from 3 ----- Allen takes & makes none to Nance making a 3 every other shot
Where Nance struggles to rebound ----- Allen can rebound
Where Nance lacks size ----- Allen has size to go with his athleticism
Where Nance struggles to stay healthy in mins ----- Allen is more durable
Where Jonas is 15m ----- Allen is 20m, for a defensive rim runner. Salary, a reason, he's being made available.
Where Jonas is expiring ----- Allen has 2yrs control
Where Jonas is 30 ----- Allen is 26
Where Jonas court value is being lost to expiring value ----- Cavs are selling because Allen can't shoot 3's.

In starting Allen for defense, NO's have gone back to a centre who can't shoot where teams are already successfully zoning ZIon with the 2 current C's shooting better than 38% collectively. Allen is going from a team that plays 4 out with him to a team that gets zoned heavy to contain Zion & BI. So NO's are probably thinking with Herb's name being mentioned, Murphy is the solution. Except Herb is the main reason the team is top 10 in defense & the solution as the 2 lineups show, is adding another defender to Herb, not replacing him.

Added benefits of trading CJ/Pick/s to a 3rd team (for expiring value) Picks to net Murray & Okongwu.

-It trades a max contract for 2 team friendly contracts, one that starts & one who is ready to start.
-cuts roughly 20m off the cap, if NO's choose not to extend Jonas as a result of landing Okongwu with Murray
-Asset control, 3yrs of an ageing asset for 5yrs of 2 players in & about to hit their prime.
-Better flexibility on & off court
-Prevents Lakers from improving, which protects their owned pick, that will likely be used to add a future C on scale if nor deferred to 25.

In not trading Jonas & maybe Daniels for Allen, NO's have better depth with Jonas/Okongwu & Murray/Daniels at both positions apposed to Allen/Zeller & CJ/Jose. Where NO's can see how the yr unfolds with several options at C next to Zion & have the flexibility of choice to extend Jonas or not while getting the most of his court value apposed to losing him as an expiring contract. In 2yrs where NO's will be hoping Daniels can take over, having 5yrs control of Murray gives both insurance to Daniels development as well as a controlled asset apposed to having to potentially resign a 34yo CJ.

[Whole Truth]

I'm convinced the people vying to trade Jonas & Daniels for Allen are either family or friends of CJ trying to build a team around him. Daniels can replace CJ now with all his growing warts & 28% shooting as you see in the +20 rating in near 100mins of play. Except Murray is shooting 38% on 6+ attempts. Same way if Nance could rebound better & stay healthy in heavy mins, he could replace Jonas with the starters to a positive result. What Allen won't be doing is replacing his 45% shooting.

Trading Jonas & Dyson to get younger at C supposedly with Allen. Actually closes the teams window to 2yrs to both Allen & CJ being free agents in 26. Where sending out the potential of Daniels, both positions would be question marks moving forward. Absolutely, short sighted.

NO's could try & resign a rim running 28yo Allen who relies on athleticism to 20+m in 2yrs & extend a 34yo CJ to a max or they could have a 29yo Murray still under control for 2 more yrs on a team friendly contract with Daniels still developing behind him & Okongwu making 15m in his prime for the next 5yrs while using the Lakers pick to draft a C for depth & possible future improvement. Where if they WANTED, could flip either Okongwu & Murray both on team friendly contracts for value if the drafted C shows out or Daniels figures it out...

People like to draw reference to Nance as an example to what pairing CJ with a defensive big man looks like. Outside of the fact, Nance is hitting his 3's at a 45% clip. Take a look at the recent Clippers, Suns matches & tell me a defensive big that can't stretch the floor will be more impactful.... Larry was -21 vs the Clippers. That combo was more helpless in both games than Jonas because he's a post threat to their main weakness at C.

I'd wager the way NO's handled the Kings with Jonas changes also. That's 3 PO teams this team can use Jonas post game to attack as a potential miss match. Where with Allen, you're hoping CJ will outplay their guard play with them packing the paint because Allen doesn't even take 3's LMAO, good luck with that.

[Whole Truth]

Give up value for Adams, give up value to get off Adams for Jonas, give up value with Jonas to get Allen who's no better than Adams. lol.

or

CJ at peak value before he's 34 in 2yrs & needs to be extended to a max for Murray 18m friendly, Okongwu 15m friendly & get 2, 2way starters under control for the next 5 yrs where NO's can safely build the potential of a drafted C & Daniels development at point. If either the drafted C or Daniels prove they can start, both trade targets are controlled assets on good value contracts, if the developing players don't prove they can start, then there's no hole to fill.

Not to mention the financial benefit of shedding 20m by trading CJ for these 2 & allowing Jonas to expire if you so choose.

[Whole Truth]

False claim. Zion & Jonas don't fit.

Zion + Jonas = (603mins) +4.6
Zion + BI = ((867mins) +1.8
Zion + Herb = (661mins) +.09

Zion + CJ = (569mins) +1.9

Zion + Daniels = (418mins) +11

Out of the starters, Zion's best 2 man pairing is with Jonas, lol. Out of the alternate stating PG's, Daniels at +11. Every stat needs context. What story am I telling here?. The tale of CJ spacing, no defense not benefiting Zion as much as Daniels defense, no spacing because ZIon not just Jonas needs ball pressure to compensate his defensive/body flaws.

Zion has a better rating with Daniel ball pressure than CJ's spacing. Allen won't rectify this fact. He's nearly +10pts better paired with Daniels ball pressure than CJ's spacing

The bad fit is Jonas & Zion needing ball pressure with CJ.

Jonas, Zion, BI, Herb, Daniels ball pressure = 89mins +20 with Daniels shooting 28% from the field for spacing.

Going after Allen using Nance as a template, when Nance is shooting 45% from 3 & making every other open 3 to punish teams choosing to pack the paint, lol. You think the spacing is bad now, Daniels at least had open looks.

vs

Going after Murray who led the league in steal last yr, is currently playing out of position at SG & unlike Daniels, is shooting 38% on 6+ APG. So you're getting ball pressure & spacing.... Even if there wasn't the added benefit of his team friendly contract, control with an Okongwu on the side that will let Jonas court value play out & expire into 15m savings if NO's choose not to extend without having to give up Daniels potential.

All it takes to land Murray is expiring/s & 2 picks. Trade CJ to Magic who need spacing for Harris & their 2 owned picks, flip the expiring & picks with whatever else needed pick value to land both Murray & Okongwu

[Whole Truth]

Man say Okongwu who is 23, is not a starter because Hawks have not traded Capela.

By this logic, Murphy is not a starter either because NO's haven't traded BI.

[Whole Truth]

The Athletic linked Orland to Lavine stating they are in need of spacing. Magic fan was in here inquiring about Murphy for the SG spot. I think CJ shooting 44% on 9 APG should pry some good value from Orlando.

With Atlanta rumored to want no salaries beyond the yr & 2 picks for Murray. I think NO's can get both Murray & Okongwu without messing with the team, if they sell high on CJ.

NO's are not going to have much of a window with CJ expiring in 26 at the age of 34. So it makes sense to sell high to net value.

Magic trade - (Fultz 1y, Harris 1y, Denver 25, Suns 26) for (CJ 3yrs)

CJ goes to a contender in the East, Orlando net their spacing option at SG for a expiring value & 2 picks the asking price of Murray. As their need is spacing which CJ is better at than Murray.

Atlanta trade - (Murray 5y, Okongwu 5y) for (Fultz 1y, Harris 1y, NO's 24, Denver 25, Suns 26, Bucks 27)

Is expiring value & 4 picks an overpay for 5yrs control of Murray & Okongwu on team friendly deals for a team facing cap issues that can address 2 starting positions while shedding 20m in doing so ?.

NO's trade - (CJ 3yrs, NO's 24 top 5 protected, Bucks 27 unprotected) for (Murray 5yrs, Okongwu 5yrs)

Pelicans get 2 2way players to compliment Zion on both sides of the ball at 2 positions that are currently filled by offensive players soon to age out & expire. They shed 20m facing cap issues & gain 10yrs of controlled value to replace an expiring Jonas, & 2yrs control of CJ for the cost of CJ & 2 picks.

[Whole Truth]

I realize the wall of text can confuse the trade so here it is in a clean format

Magic trade - (Fultz 1y, Harris 1y, Denver 25, Suns 26) for (CJ)

Hawks trade - (Murray 5yrs, Okongwu 5yrs) for (Fultz 1y, Harris 1y, NO's 24, Denver 25, Suns 26, Bucks 27)

Pelicans trade - (CJ, NO's 24 top 5 protected, Bucks 27 top 2 protected) for (Murray 5yrs, Okongwu 5yrs)

[Whole Truth]

Poster on same forum say "I don't know B-Ball but I'm not trading Daniels for a back up"

I would say you know more than 95% of the posters on that board & that's me being kind.

[Whole Truth]

If at the end of the season NO's decide ZIon/BI aren't working as a pair & want to move on. Most likely BI because of his max extension.

Zion to Detroit for their top 3 pick Sarr + additional value
BI to Portland for their top 3 pick Sarr + additional value

Sarr - Jonas
Zion - Nance
Murphy - Daniels
Herb - Hawkins
CJ - Jose

As I was saying this past offseason for #2/3 Miller, where NO's brass were rumored to prefer Scoot. Murphy's spacing can cheaply & adequately fill the hole left by BI avoiding his upcoming max. Sarr not Allen is the future solution at C on rookie scale & control. Without BI's extension, Jonas can get a 2 yr extension to bridge a development gap for the rookie C. I'm still hopeful Lakers pick gives them a free shot at Sarr.

Still think Murray takes this team where CJ can't & he has an additional 2yrs control to open the window of contention beyond 2yrs before having to face a 34yo CJ starring down a max extension.

[Whole Truth]

Deja vu for me... Raptors Derozan is now Pelicans CJ.

Maybe if it were Kawhi instead of Murray ... or maybe not. Somebody planting roots. None ever said he wasn't smart.

Believe it or not, the majority of Raptors fans didn't want to trade Derozan for Kawhi.

[Whole Truth]

See the Lakers rumored trade of Russel, a first & a swap for Murray ... what ?. Looks like my trade was an overpay but my value presented was in accordance with Hawk's fans perspective.

The Lakers vying for the same target. Take into consideration, it also affects the value of their owned pick, 24/25. Murray gives them a plug & play 3rd option. Where until now they had to ride either an offensive option or defensive option over their 2 way target ...

[Whole Truth]

In 2yrs when this team has gone nowhere, don't say I didn't try to warn you. So far 3yrs have gone by & this team is still struggling to make the PO's. Pin it on injuries & the 25min role player. I've seen that movie in Raptor land repeated for 8yrs. Pretty sure it's going to have the same ending.

[Duke4life831]

In 2yrs when this team has gone nowhere, don't say I didn't try to warn you. So far 3yrs have gone by & this team is still struggling to make the PO's. Pin it on injuries & the 25min role player. I've seen that movie in Raptor land repeated for 8yrs. Pretty sure it's going to have the same ending.

The front office capped themselves in the knee multiple times. The botching of multiple drafts, and I think the biggest was the CJ trade. It was such a short term move (and a move that didnt even need to happen because the team already started to turn it around prior to the CJ trade).

But with CJ, it just creates too many holes on the defensive end and the trio together isnt much of a difference offensively than just 2 of the three out there. I totally get the pitch on why they have kept them together, between the injuries and CJ being that veteran presence, all of that is an easy sell to the public. But the reality is, even when healthy its a heavily flawed lineup. And it seems like this has been known but theyre doing everything they can to just avoid the truth.

[Whole Truth]

The front office capped themselves in the knee multiple times. The botching of multiple drafts, and I think the biggest was the CJ trade. It was such a short term move (and a move that didnt even need to happen because the team already started to turn it around prior to the CJ trade).

But with CJ, it just creates too many holes on the defensive end and the trio together isnt much of a difference offensively than just 2 of the three out there. I totally get the pitch on why they have kept them together, between the injuries and CJ being that veteran presence, all of that is an easy sell to the public. But the reality is, even when healthy its a heavily flawed lineup. And it seems like this has been known but theyre doing everything they can to just avoid the truth.

The draft is educated guessing, so missing on a couple picks is not as big a deal to me as correcting mistakes & doing what's ultimately right. For every failed pick you have Murphy, Herb, Daniels, Jose, Hawkins etc..

The addition of CJ created the defensive issue over Hart but he's not the reason the defense has holes. NO's can take alternative action to keep CJ in the rotation but why would they opt to purposefully be a tax team, with a small window. It makes no sense. I would argue the manner in which they choose to use him, is the bigger issue. With Nance in for Jonas & Daniels in for CJ, it shows NO's just need one more defender with Herb to balance the starting unit. If ZIon is the man they're trying to compliment, trading value & potential for a centre that has no range, is more expensive facing tax issues, with only 2yrs control before extension is needed, is flat out stupid. Losing Jonas court value to expiring value, all to compliment a soon to be expiring 32yo CJ on a max contract that hasn't moved the needle in 3yrs despite playing well individually, arrgghh, once again, stupid. This team is playing down to CJ's impact. Reason for NO's inconsistency. When he's not shooting well in particular, they can't get stops.

Imagine, the starting lineup is better by opting to play 4 on 5 with Daniels defense & him shooting a poultry 28% from 3 for no spacing, than when NO's opt to play a defensive C in Nance who's shooting 45% from 3 better than Jonas 38% combined with CJ's optimal 44% on volume & people think Allen who takes no 3's is going to slide right in where Cavs play 4 out. Allen is not the solution because when they can't break the zone the floor will be tilted where even if he could provide strong defense, it won't matter if you can't put the ball in the hoop. Whereas the consistency in defense, is straight up effort. Something you can bring to the floor every night like clockwork as Daniels proved in each of his starts. Not once were the starters blown out with Daniels starting, facing 6 top end teams in 9 matches.

You see the flaw with CJ more clearly when NO's go up against teams they can't multiply Herb to keep them in check. Clippers, Suns, Mavs etc... No coincidence short handed with Daniels starting, NO's has beat 2 of these teams, 3 times total, in his 9 short starts. Where NO's look like they don't stand a chance with CJ.

The key issue with a volume efficient Zion, as proven in Deniel 9 starts, is clearly ball pressure. Playing 4 on 5 offensively with Daniels, ZIon is +11 in their 2 man pairing. Whereas with CJ's optimal 44% on 9 APG spacing he's the poultry +1.9 pairing. Replacing Jonas with Allen is not going to rectify this fact. Zion, needs the ball pressure that CJ cannot provide when his shots are not falling. Herb cannot shut down more than 1 option at a time, nor can he roam where he's at his best defensively, when paired with CJ. Once again, Allen is not going to rectify these facts.

What I can say with a certainty, what Allen can't do, is bust the zone, where teams zone to stop Zion. Tell me again why isn't Daniels starting again ? They've made these decisions more about CJ than the teams future & well being.

Good to see you man, hope all is good.

[Whole Truth]

When making trades, the first thing to ask is why is a team trading x player ?.

Why are Cavs potentially trading Allen ?

People believe Cavs are trading Allen simply because they want Mobley at the 5. Ask yourself, with Mobley being a better weak side defender & shot blocker, if Allen could shoot the 3 ball, would they be making that move to put Mobley at the 5 ? lol. Not to mention 20m for a defensive rim runner who doesn't take 3's where teams zone your best player nightly & your cap is becoming more of an issue. You can pluck a defensive rim runner in the 2nd round.

Why is Atlanta trading Murray ?

They traded for Murray hoping he could improve their backcourt defense. They moved him from PG where he had a size advantage to SG where he doesn't to play next to a traffic cone in Young in a small backcourt. Needless to say their defense didn't improve & they can't move him to PG over their franchise player. If NO's were to trade their SG CJ who's playing point for NO's for this 2 way PG. Murray goes back to having his size advantage at point, paired with a plus defender & defensive roamer in Herb in the backcourt. He's shooting 38% on 6+ APG & is having his best offensive season to date. Not to mention having signed to a team friendly deal making him considerably cheaper than CJ.

Because of CJ's max contract, NO's can include the 1-5 switch defensive 5 Okongwu in the deal, with enough pick capital. Okongwu is 23 & ready to start on a 5yr team friendly contract where unlike Allen who is more expemsive, has 2yrs control, he can make an open 3 & has, is showing, the potential to get better

[Whole Truth]

Lastly, glad to see you addressed & shut down the Herb trade rumors. Short of trading for a franchise player, Herb should be untouchable.

[Duke4life831]

The front office capped themselves in the knee multiple times. The botching of multiple drafts, and I think the biggest was the CJ trade. It was such a short term move (and a move that didnt even need to happen because the team already started to turn it around prior to the CJ trade).

But with CJ, it just creates too many holes on the defensive end and the trio together isnt much of a difference offensively than just 2 of the three out there. I totally get the pitch on why they have kept them together, between the injuries and CJ being that veteran presence, all of that is an easy sell to the public. But the reality is, even when healthy its a heavily flawed lineup. And it seems like this has been known but theyre doing everything they can to just avoid the truth.

The draft is educated guessing, so missing on a couple picks is not as big a deal to me as correcting mistakes & doing what's ultimately right. For every failed pick you have Murphy, Herb, Daniels, Jose, Hawkins etc..

The addition of CJ created the defensive issue over Hart but he's not the reason the defense has holes. NO's can take alternative action to keep CJ in the rotation but why would they opt to purposefully be a tax team, with a small window. It makes no sense. I would argue the manner in which they choose to use him, is the bigger issue. With Nance in for Jonas & Daniels in for CJ, it shows NO's just need one more defender with Herb to balance the starting unit. If ZIon is the man they're trying to compliment, trading value & potential for a centre that has no range, is more expensive facing tax issues, with only 2yrs control before extension is needed, is flat out stupid. Losing Jonas court value to expiring value, all to compliment a soon to be expiring 32yo CJ on a max contract that hasn't moved the needle in 3yrs despite playing well individually, arrgghh, once again, stupid. This team is playing down to CJ's impact. Reason for NO's inconsistency. When he's not shooting well in particular, they can't get stops.

Imagine, the starting lineup is better by opting to play 4 on 5 with Daniels defense & him shooting a poultry 28% from 3 for no spacing, than when NO's opt to play a defensive C in Nance who's shooting 45% from 3 better than Jonas 38% combined with CJ's optimal 44% on volume & people think Allen who takes no 3's is going to slide right in where Cavs play 4 out. Allen is not the solution because when they can't break the zone the floor will be tilted where even if he could provide strong defense, it won't matter if you can't put the ball in the hoop. Whereas the consistency in defense, is straight up effort. Something you can bring to the floor every night like clockwork as Daniels proved in each of his starts. Not once were the starters blown out with Daniels starting, facing 6 top end teams in 9 matches.

You see the flaw with CJ more clearly when NO's go up against teams they can't multiply Herb to keep them in check. Clippers, Suns, Mavs etc... No coincidence short handed with Daniels starting, NO's has beat 2 of these teams, 3 times total, in his 9 short starts. Where NO's look like they don't stand a chance with CJ.

The key issue with a volume efficient Zion, as proven in Deniel 9 starts, is clearly ball pressure. Playing 4 on 5 offensively with Daniels, ZIon is +11 in their 2 man pairing. Whereas with CJ's optimal 44% on 9 APG spacing he's the poultry +1.9 pairing. Replacing Jonas with Allen is not going to rectify this fact. Zion, needs the ball pressure that CJ cannot provide when his shots are not falling. Herb cannot shut down more than 1 option at a time, nor can he roam where he's at his best defensively, when paired with CJ. Once again, Allen is not going to rectify these facts.

What I can say with a certainty, what Allen can't do, is bust the zone, where teams zone to stop Zion. Tell me again why isn't Daniels starting again ? They've made these decisions more about CJ than the teams future & well being.

Good to see you man, hope all is good.

Ya to be fair, I throw in the draft misses because just instances that didnt help. But ya my #1 thing that prevented this roster from taking the next step, I say that in past and future tense because I dont think they make the change, is the CJ move.

I agree with everything youre saying, I feel like you and I have been talking about the importance of getting a PG with the ability to pressure the ball for well over a year now haha.

To me from the beginning it was obvious the ideal role with CJ on this roster is 6th man off the bench. If his shot is on, you roll with him, if his shot is off, he just has less minutes that game. And also with that, it prevents what we see a lot is only 2 of the trio are heavily involved most nights.

Ideally CJ comes off the bench, and when he comes off he relegates himself to the 2nd option behind either Zion or BI (whoever he's out there with). The issue is he leads the team in touches and averages more shots per game than Zion. That shouldnt happen, its just a funky fit even on the offensive side.

And as long as he's here and as long as the Pels continue to treat him like its a trio, there is always going to be this issue.

[Whole Truth]

That's my main issue with CJ. NO's not watching him like he's a role player but as a big 3 option.