Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft.

[Whole Truth]

NO's trade - (Hayes, Graham, FRP) for (Poeltl, 9m TE)

Jonas - Poeltl - Hermangomez
Zion - Nance - Lidell
Herb - Murphy - Temple
BI - (CJ) - Naji
(Daniels) - Alvarado - Kira

[Whole Truth]

The Nets Have been linked to a Boston trade rumor surrounding Brown. Great young player but there's an issue.. he's under 2yrs control & Nets may have trouble retaining him considering they will most likely lose Irving too.

I'm thinking NO's work with Boston to jump in for Brown,

Lakers trade - (Westbrook, 25 RTS, 26 unprotected) for (Irving, Graham)

Nets trade - (Durant, Irving) for (Mitchell, CJ, Hayes, Kira, Boston 24 RTS, Boston 26 RTS, Bucks 27)

Utah trade - (Mitchell, Clarkson) for (Westbrook, LA 23, NO's 23, Bucks 24 RTS, Boston 24 RTS, Boston 25, Bucks 26 RTS, LA 27)

Boston trade - (Brown, White, 24 RTS, 25, 26 RTS) for (Durant)

NO's trade - (CJ, Graham, Hayes, Kira, Pick/s) for (Brown, Clarkson, Lakers 25 RTS)

NO's trade - (Lakers 23 rights back to enable 2 picks in trade in 23 where Utah want to tank.. givng them 4 picks in 23 total, pick up the Lakers 24 option so LA can trade a yr earlier & for them to include an extra swap pick in trade allowing NO's to also trade their 24 pick having LA's pick. Revieve a LA swap in 25 for allowing them to not trade beyond 27, Bucks 24 RTS, Bucks 26 RTS, Bucks 27).

In netting Brown, NO's lose out on the 23 draft, still have a Lakers 24 to surplant the 24 swap option on their pick in trade & a right to swap with LA in 25 where trade will decide who gets the best of the 3 potential swaps. So essentially NO's only miss the 23 draft.

[Whole Truth]

"Spurs are looking to potentially include Poeltl and/or Josh Richardson in any package for Donovan Mitchell, Kevin Durant, or Kyrie Irving. Essentially, the goal is to get another unprotected draft pick in return. That is priority number one".

https://clutchpoints.com/spurs-rumors-san-antonio-stance-on-a-jakob-poeltl-trade/

Poeltl is expiring & will be an UFA. An unprotected pick is a steep price, unless it's coming from a contender not expected to land lotto. One article had Bucks interested & swapping a pick in 28 & or 29... I'm thinking NO's could use their 24 & or 26 pick & undercut their interest. Potentially off load salary, better balance the roster/bench in the process.

NO's trade - (Hayes, Kira, Graham, Bucks 24 & or 26 RTS) for (Poeltl)

or

NO's trade - (Hayes, Kira, Graham, Bucks 24 & or 26 RTS) for (Poeltl, Richardson).

Hopefully with an agreement to an extension worked out for Poetlt. Trade one is clean clearing 2 impending extensions from positions that have quality depth/lack of PT & Graham's 3yr committment in front of recently drafted Daniels.. Spurs absorb salary in this trade, which would aid the cap situation in the retention of Poeltl. Trade two, Richardson has 1 yr less on his contract than Graham which opens a guard spot for Daniels, after his rookie season, which would give him time to get his feet wet but not long enough to block his progress, PT. Poeltl a defensive C, a better fit in the front court than Hayes as he's now also entering his prime, with Jonas exiting his under just one more yr control. Financially, depending what NO's do with Jonas, this trade frees between 30 & 70m in salary & impending extensions with only Poeltl needed to be retain/extended...

(Jonas 2yr) - Poeltl 1yr - Hermangomez
Zion - Nance - Lidell
Herb - Murphy - Temple - Naji
BI - (Richarson 2yr) - Daniels - Naji
CJ - Alvarado - Daniels

Future rotation -

Poeltl ext - Jonas resigned/ext ? - Hermangomez
Zion - Nance - Lidell
Herb - Murphy - Naji
BI - CJ - (23 swap)
Daniels - Alvarado - (24/option)

[Whole Truth]

A trade I've posted a couple times. Lakers in signing Lebron have rumored to put picks 27 & 29 on the table for Kyrie but Nets want win now talent. NO's could potentially trade 2yrs of CJ for Irving's expiring... AKA Westbrook & Lakers 27, 29 picks with Utah interested in shedding salary & tanking in order to meet the Nets demand for a young star without touching Zion & or BI for Durant.

Satisfying Lakers/Nets demands for Irving expiring with CJ's 2yrs, NO's would have a Westbrook & 2 pick based package set up for Mitchell still owning 5 unprotected picks + all their own in an attempt to land Durant where Nets want a young player & 6 picks for Mitchell. Knicks rumored deal of RJ & 6 picks, some protected, like the Bucks 25 pick NO's own top 4 rights too. Everyone of NO's picks holding more value than what Knicks can offer.

Lakers trade - (Westbrook, 27, 29) for (Irving, Graham)

Utah trade - (Mitchell, Brogdon, Clarkson) for (Westbrook, #8 Daniels, Lakers/NO's 23, Bucks 24 RTS, Bucks 25 top 4, Bucks 26 RTS, Lakers 27)

Nets trade - (Durant, Irving) for (Mitchell, CJ, Brogdon, NO's 24/25 the yr they pickup the Lakers option, Bucks 27, Lakers 29)

NO's trade - (CJ, Graham, #8 Daniels, 5 unprotected picks) for (Durant, Clarkson)

Jonas - Hayes
Zion - Nance
Durant - Murphy
Herb - Clarkson
BI - Alvarado - Kira

In consolidating this trade for Durant, NO's with the above roster miss only the 23 draft to acquire Duarnt without giving up either Zion or BI. The pick they give up in either 24 or 25 is stipulated with having/selecting the Lakers pick in either yr.

Essentially NO's facilitate Nets Mitchell, Brogdon & 3 FRP's for Durant... Lakers 2yrs of CJ for Irvings expiring, giving Nets a high end talent without the off court drama which Nets need as much as his court value to help stabalize their situation on/off court.. This trade also helps the Nets prevent NY from landing Mitchell as they potentially collapse with no draft capital owing to Houston. For NO's, neither Zion or BI reach the table trading picks for the Nets star requirement in obtaining Mitchell,.2yrs of 30 Something CJ + picks traded for 4yrs of 30 something Durant.

Risk.. those picks lost could potentially turn NO's into a controlled dynasty but it's not a given, they could just as easily turn sideways in value with Lebron resigned & Lakers having fortunate health. Whereas Durant is still a top 5 talent acutalized & added without affecting the core of Zion, BI, Herb/Murphy with the young team ready to take a leap into contention.

Bird in the hand or 2 in the bush & as long as Durant remains relatively healthy, he retains his trade value if necessary.

[Whole Truth]

BR is saying Spurs are looking for 2 firsts for Poetlt who is an expiring & soon to be unrestricted FA.

For that to be the asking price, Spirs would have to be eating salary as well as a guarantee to extend.

NO's trade (Temple, Hayes, Graham, protected 23 pick, Utah pick 24) for (Poeltl)

Financially this trade saves 12m this season with Hayes extension & Graham's 11m now relocated to extending Poeltl where NO's can let a 30+ yr old 15m per Jonas go if they so choose moving forward & have the future of centre position covered..

Roster construct & minute distribution rectified., Poetltl being a complimentary defensive C replacing Hayes who's shown he's best suited roaming at a deep PF position... even if Zion were to miss time all of Murphy, Herb, Ingram are capable of spelling minutes there. Graham out opens a guard spot for Danuels to get development minutes. Ideally, I'd start Damiels with Zion & BI for his D next to Herb & bring CJ off the bench as the 6th man where he can lead the second unit as the primary option. Temple is thrown in to dump an additional 5m for 12m savings total.

Trading the 23 protected pick is also a financial decision. Pelicans roster is deep at all positions post trade where anything that isn't a lottery pick would be a financial hit where the young player would have a hard time getting development minutas.. Lotto protected where the pick makes sense to shuffle the deck/make room. Same reasoning/concept behing the 24 Utah swap. If the Lakers pick hits in combination with NO's own & Utah. 3 picks in 24 would be a financial hit this roster could do without.

So in essence. The trade is for a young defensive C that will solidify the Centre positions depth & future, 12m savingins, bettter roster construct openiing development & playing time for a couple of mid to late picks that would be a cap hit with minimal chance of breaking rotation. So I see it as Poeltl being worth one mid to late pick & the financial savings/cap health, the other.

Jonas - Poeltle - Hermangomez - Nance small ball 5
Zion - Nance - Murphy
Herb - Murphy
BI - CJ
Daniels - Alvarado

IMO Daniels defense & playmaking in the starting rotation would be a better fit with Zion & BI dominating the ball if he can prove not to be a liability from 3. IMO it better balances both units with CJ' in a primary scoring role off the bench as the 6th man, instead of him being 3rd string & another defensive liability. IMO one or both Jonas & CJ need to be swapped out for Zion & BI to be most effective on both ends, more so defensively.

- Still have a potential lotto pick 23 or cap savings by trading a mid to late protected.
- Still have potentially 2 picks in 24 after trading the 24 Utah swap
- Lakers 24/25 swap yt
--Utah 25 top 4 protected
- Utah 26 swap
- Utah 27

I''d do this before targeting Brogdan because Poeltl addresses several things. From defense to Jonas potential extension, replacement, roster contruct , playing time, development minutes for Daniels & overall cap health etc... vs a bunch of late picks struggling to find munutes on a deep roster all with signidicant cap hits.

[Whole Truth]

From Heavy concerning Poeltl

"Poeltl contested more attempts per game (14.2) than any other player in the game. In turn, opponents’ field-goal percentages dropped by an average of 8.3% compared to their norms within six feet of the hoop when the Spurs big man was the closest defender.

On the other side, he’s fresh off a campaign that saw him put up a career-best 13.5 points per game on 61.8% shooting overall and 74.7% within three feet of the hoop. He’s also an elite-level screener, finishing tied for second league-wide in screen assists at 5.5 per game in ’21-22."

Poeltl is 26. He would be a defensive compliment & potential replacement to an ageing/expiring Jonas. The Spurs price is exhorbant but if NO's can include Graham & Temple the 12m salary dump could make their asking price more acceptable along with the other soon to be mentioned benefits.

Jonas - physicality, rebounding, offensive threat.
Poeltl - defensive shotblocker, potential long term replacement to Jonas
Hermangomez - quality depth
Nance - small ball 5, stretch option.

Maybe a team would be willing to give up a first for Hayes if redirected ? where NO's would only have to add one pick while reaping the benefit of dumping additional salary & obligations.

- (Hayes, Graham, Temple, 23 top 10 protected pick) for (Poeltl) with Hayes routed for a pick.

Unless the 23 pick is top 10, where NO's would retain rights, this trade saves roughly 14-15m outside of Poeltl's 8m current salary. NO's are sending out 22m not factoring the the zero value of the pick or potential bump in a Hayes extension. So if you also consider an extension to Poeltl would mean not having to extend Jonas beyond his current contract, that's an additional 15m for 37m total + the additional value of the unknown pick & Hayes extension. NO's will have create a 37m pocket to both lockup Poeltl & impove cap health. All this benefit to trade before even taking into consideration roster construct, playing & development minutes. Hayes has proven more effective at PF where outside of injury his playing time would be limited with all of Nance, Herb, BI & Murphy all capable of spelling minutes .. Graham out opens a guard spot for Daniels to get development minutes. The bigman swap of Hayes for Poeltl bolsters the front court positionally & defensively.

Start CJ as a floor spacer but pull him early to get run with the bench unit as the lead scorer.

Bench - with the potential to stagger based on matchups.

Poeltl - (Jonas)
Nance - (Zion)
Murphy - (BI)
CJ -
Alvarado - Daniels - Kira

+ cap savings

[Whole Truth]

I see alot of lofty expectations for this team & they could be justified in adding a proven #1 pick who's in arguably his best shape of his career.

Keep in mind, you have to learn to walk before you can run. Memphis had 3 full seasons together before they made their leap. CJ has played about a half season & Zion has yet to play. This team is still in an integration stage of it's 2 better players.. Where I can't even say they had a half season together with Zion missing from the equation..

Chemistry & familiarity are big factors in success. Reason why teams that shuffle the deck constantly in faied expectations continue to fail & shuffle. Patience is a virtue & key to eventual success. I've said this on the Memphis board several times. Raptors got swept by the Wizards in the PO's & the same squad ended up making the ECF's the very next season, where Masai was consideing blowing it up after being swept.

Derozan was traded because 7 yrs of a 50 win squad showed he needed to be to reach another level. Not 1 yr, 7. None thought that team could reach the level of championship but as I said, Masai patience led to Kawhi hitting the market at a reduced price.. Pels don't have this problem, they have 5 picks a couple projected lotto where they can find another piece if need be without hoping for a bargain deal.

What my expectations are, is progress, of both team & individuals. This team was playing 3 first year players significant minutes & are still young as a whole down to Zion even in his dominant numbers. There's still alot left to learn for this squad. The off court chemistry is great but only time breeds familiarity & tendencies.

GS is not the most talented team in the league. They're the best team in the league because of their on/off ball movement & overall synercy. This NO's team is unselfish, they play for one another.,, they only need time to develop together & in progree will they go from crawling (Intigration) to walking (familiarity/chemistry) to contending (detail & execution).

IMO this team is still in stage 1, integration of Zion who hasn't played yet & to a lesser extent CJ,.who's played half a season. CJ & Nance both claimiimg they didn't know the play book during the Suns series.. I'm not saying they can't but I'd temper expectations to looking for progress from a still young developing team.

Having said all that, there's alot to be excited about.... Lets gooooooooo

One love

One Nola

[Duke4life831]

I see alot of lofty expectations for this team & they could be justified in adding a proven #1 pick who's in arguably his best shape of his career.

Keep in mind, you have to learn to walk before you can run. Memphis had 3 full seasons together before they made their leap. CJ has played about a half season & Zion has yet to play. This team is still in an integration stage of it's 2 better players.. Where I can't even say they had a half season together with Zion missing from the equation..

Chemistry & familiarity are big factors in success. Reason why teams that shuffle the deck constantly in faied expectations continue to fail & shuffle. Patience is a virtue & key to eventual success. I've said this on the Memphis board several times. Raptors got swept by the Wizards in the PO's & the same squad ended up making the ECF's the very next season, where Masai was consideing blowing it up after being swept.

Derozan was traded because 7 yrs of a 50 win squad showed he needed to be to reach another level. Not 1 yr, 7. None thought that team could reach the level of championship but as I said, Masai patience led to Kawhi hitting the market at a reduced price.. Pels don't have this problem, they have 5 picks a couple projected lotto where they can find another piece if need be without hoping for a bargain deal.

What my expectations are, is progress, of both team & individuals. This team was playing 3 first year players significant minutes & are still young as a whole down to Zion even in his dominant numbers. There's still alot left to learn for this squad. The off court chemistry is great but only time breeds familiarity & tendencies.

GS is not the most talented team in the league. They're the best team in the league because of their on/off ball movement & overall synercy. This NO's team is unselfish, they play for one another.,, they only need time to develop together & in progree will they go from crawling (Intigration) to walking (familiarity/chemistry) to contending (detail & execution).

IMO this team is still in stage 1, integration of Zion who hasn't played yet & to a lesser extent CJ,.who's played half a season. CJ & Nance both claimiimg they didn't know the play book during the Suns series.. I'm not saying they can't but I'd temper expectations to looking for progress from a still young developing team.

Having said all that, there's alot to be excited about.... Lets gooooooooo

One love

One Nola

Agreed. There are a lot of question marks with how this roster fits. We still have no clue how good of a fit offensively and defensively Jonas is going to be next to Zion. I still think there are plenty of questions about where the 3pt shooting is going to come from this year. There is still a good chance whenever BI has the ball, he is going to have very little spacing to work with.

And ya there is still a huge question mark on how BI/Zion/CJ are going to work together. Is this team going to allow BI and Zion to be the primary 2 guys (which is the path I think they should go), or are they going to try and keep all 3 happy? Im not the biggest fan of how CJ fit in with just BI last year. The fact that CJ led the team in Time Per Possession and shots in the playoffs over BI, even when BI was on fire and CJ was not, that wasnt good. I have a feeling if theyre going to try and do the 3 man offense, someone is going to get pushed down and I have a feeling that person will be BI.

So ya plenty of question marks with the team. The good thing is, this is clearly a talented team especially with Zion back. And there were two clear things that Willie Green showed last year. 1 he is going to get this team to play hard every night. And 2, he is willing to make adjustments with this team (even if they come later than I think they should, at least he makes them). Made the adjustment of getting away from the NAW/Graham backcourt which was the main problem to start last year. Then he made the adjustment to get away from the Graham/CJ backcourt. So Im hoping if they do the 3 man offense (which it seems like theyre going to try), if it isnt working out. Willie wont hesitate to do something along the lines of bringing CJ off the bench or something like that.

[Duke4life831]

I will also say seeing all of the training camp videos coming out so far, one thing is crystal clear with this team. The leader of this team isnt Zion and its not CJ. Zion could end up having the better year and get more hype and CJ maybe viewed as more of the vet presence. But there is no doubt the guys on this roster view BI as the leader of this team. All the young guys dont even need to be asked about BI for them to bring up BI in interviews. They all talk about him as THE guy for this team on and off the court.

Also Larry Nance is a guy that this team needs to keep around for a long time. He comes off as the ideal vet teammate. Super glue guy who will do whatever is asked of him on the court and is the ultimate hype man for the rest of the team off the court. That is the kind of vet presence you want on a young team.

[Whole Truth]

Agreed. There are a lot of question marks with how this roster fits. We still have no clue how good of a fit offensively and defensively Jonas is going to be next to Zion. I still think there are plenty of questions about where the 3pt shooting is going to come from this year. There is still a good chance whenever BI has the ball, he is going to have very little spacing to work with.

And ya there is still a huge question mark on how BI/Zion/CJ are going to work together. Is this team going to allow BI and Zion to be the primary 2 guys (which is the path I think they should go), or are they going to try and keep all 3 happy? Im not the biggest fan of how CJ fit in with just BI last year. The fact that CJ led the team in Time Per Possession and shots in the playoffs over BI, even when BI was on fire and CJ was not, that wasnt good. I have a feeling if theyre going to try and do the 3 man offense, someone is going to get pushed down and I have a feeling that person will be BI.

So ya plenty of question marks with the team. The good thing is, this is clearly a talented team especially with Zion back. And there were two clear things that Willie Green showed last year. 1 he is going to get this team to play hard every night. And 2, he is willing to make adjustments with this team (even if they come later than I think they should, at least he makes them). Made the adjustment of getting away from the NAW/Graham backcourt which was the main problem to start last year. Then he made the adjustment to get away from the Graham/CJ backcourt. So Im hoping if they do the 3 man offense (which it seems like theyre going to try), if it isnt working out. Willie wont hesitate to do something along the lines of bringing CJ off the bench or something like that.

We remain eye to eye.

I don't think NO's will have to worry about their offense. Their offensive talent is off the charts.

I have 2 concerns, same as yours.. roster construct (limeups/balance) & defense.

Herb cannot be swapped out for "shooting" because he's the starting units defensive foundation but the starting unit has 2 avenues where they can tighten the teams overall defense without losing much of thier scoring punch with Zions return & that is either with replacing Jonas, CJ & or both. Like u, I have CJ's ideal fit as this teams 6th man. A role I'd expect him to dominate, become sixth man of the year. #1 option on the bench vs 3rd option as a starter making the most of his skillset/value... It's the same money regardless for those who say you can't bring his salary off the bench... Like CJ, Jonas loses value the less involved he is offensively. Reason Raptors started to bring him off the bench by matchups when they landed Kawhi, they didn't need his offense most nights with Ibaka being the better defender. They used him insted to help bolster the benches lack of scoring punch, a role that's easier for a guard like CJ as the bench had trouble getting Jonas the ball, lesser talent were putting bricks where bad offense (inefficiency) hurts the overall defense... CJ brings shooting to the equation, Jonas rebounding/elite screening .. but both if not ivolved offensively, lose defensive value. Their usage should be matchup based, not set if NO's want to improve defensively.

If I'm facing the Suns & Paul, Memphis Ja.. I would sooner put the rookie Daniels defense on Paul/Ja in combination with Herb than CJ's offense, just let him hunt Paul/Ja & get the ball to Zion/BI on offense.. If facing a team that's running Jonas off the court defensively .. Nance

This team has the versatility to match rosters & lineups if Green doesn't become beholden to salary & reputation. Which alot of teams do. IMO, if this team is staggered properly, I would have them as a top 5 seed or better.

I have one adjustment I'd make to roster. I'd trade (Hayes, Graham, Templle & 23 lotto protected pick) for (Poeltl, with an agreement to extension). Warriors are also reportedly targeting him with Wiseman on the table. Poeltl is 27 & a good PNR defender/shot blocker who's not a complete offensive liability. So what does targeting Poeltl do?.

In a word increase the teams overall versatility. With this trade for Poeltl, Willie would have all his bases covered, including a potential long term replacement for an ageing/expiring Jonas. NO's would also save 12m in cap, have better overall roster construct & minutes/development distribution.

C = Jonas, Poeltl (PNR defender/shot blocker/replacement), Hermangomez (Quality depth(, Nance (Small ball 5).

At PG - Having Daniels as an option, allows Willie to pressure the ball & defend the perimeter better but that would entail CJ accepting the rookie taking situational minutes, to put the clamps on a Paul or Ja led team... Being on the Memphis board during their rebuild, I know Morant struggles with defensive length... Memphis used to struggle specifically with Philly, not because of Embiid but because Simmons was on him & their overall teams defensive length. Simmons clamped JA everytime they met.

All that's left, is the time needed to grow & learn together. I have no problem giving up a couple mid to late firsts for Poeltl & some cap savings. Especially when u consider this teams quality depth, the development time needed & cap situation. Where if my proposed trade doesn't make sense, NO's should try to trade out of the draft for a future first, zero value in trade/no salary commitment ... Whereas having Poeltl gives them not only defensive depth now but a younger solution to having to extend Jonas. They'd be a in the drivers seat in any extension talk apposed to having to fill a void.

[Whole Truth]

I will also say seeing all of the training camp videos coming out so far, one thing is crystal clear with this team. The leader of this team isnt Zion and its not CJ. Zion could end up having the better year and get more hype and CJ maybe viewed as more of the vet presence. But there is no doubt the guys on this roster view BI as the leader of this team. All the young guys dont even need to be asked about BI for them to bring up BI in interviews. They all talk about him as THE guy for this team on and off the court.

Also Larry Nance is a guy that this team needs to keep around for a long time. He comes off as the ideal vet teammate. Super glue guy who will do whatever is asked of him on the court and is the ultimate hype man for the rest of the team off the court. That is the kind of vet presence you want on a young team.

Something I've observed over my years.. You spend enough time around someone, their trait's/habbits rub off on you naturally without knowing, down to how you talk & what you say. Jonas You know in interviews is from Derozan.

Anyone can lead but as you point out who's personality has the most gravity for others to follow. From what I've heard. Herb is the silent leader in effort .. I know Jonas as a vet sets the example of putting a team first.. I could go on but what I'm basically saying is that leadership is not one dimensional or down to anyone individual.

Anyone can gravitate to anyone who puts their foot forward as an example.. knowingly or unknowingly.

[Whole Truth]

Sometimes when you make long winded posts like mine people don't bother with it. So I'm going to isolate this fact in having Poeltl as a target for NO's.

"Poeltl contested more attempts per game (14.2) than any other player in the game. In turn, opponents’ field-goal percentages dropped by an average of 8.3% compared to their norms within six feet of the hoop when the Spurs big man was the closest defender.

[Whole Truth]

NO's trade - (Hayes, Graham, Temple 23 pick top 10 protected, Bucks 24 pick) for (Poeltl)

Jaxson Hayes - 2023 6.8m / 2024 9.1m QO & 20m cap hold, 15% of cap,
Devonte Graham - 2023 11.5m / 2024 11.5m / 2025 11.5m, 9% of cap
Temple - 2023 5m / 2024 5.4m, 4% of cap
Lakers/NO's pick 23 top 10 protected, if top ten, defferred to Bucks 26 swap
Bucks 24 pick swap

for

Poeltl - 2023 9m, 2024 UFA, with extension negotiated in trade.


NO's save 14m in 2023, 17m in 2024 not assuming Hayes/Poeltl's extensions, 11.5m in 2025. Depending on Poeltl's extension, consideration made on the fact Jonas is soon to be 15m expiring ontop of factoring Hayes extension..

Spurs get 2 young players & 2 picks for a UFA. A move that would aid their tank efforts in developing Hayes potential.

Jonas Offense / Poeltl Defense - Hermangomez - Nance, small ball
Zion - Nance -
Herb - Murphy -
BI - Daniels/CJ -
CJ Offense / Daniels Defense - Alvarado - Kira

That team +

Lakers/NO's 23 top 10
Lakers 24/25 RTS years
Bucks 25 top 4
Bucks 26 swap assuming 23 pick is conveyed
Bucks 27 unprotected

With the depth of this roster & it's cap implications, note the goal is to shed the salary obligation of a pick & young player that would have a hard time getting development minutes with this teams youth & depth. The allowance/exception made is only for a top 10 pick... notice the Pels still have 5 picks under this rational !!!..

[Whole Truth]

Just saw a clip of the open practice. With singing like that, they should have kept it closed, lmao.

[Duke4life831]

Alvarado should be starting. Obviously he’s not individually as talented as CJ, he just fits so much better.

Even in preseason CJ’s bad defense is beyond obvious. And his offense just isn’t needed when you have Zion/BI and then Jonas in the starting lineup. Jose can be very impactful without even putting up a shot and that is exactly what is needed with the starting lineup. He moves the ball very quickly on offense, plus with the energy that both he and Herb play on the defensive end. Those two together can really drain an opposing offense.

Plus this would allow CJ to come in and focus on what he does best, just come in and score.

[Whole Truth]

Alvarado should be starting. Obviously he’s not individually as talented as CJ, he just fits so much better.

Even in preseason CJ’s bad defense is beyond obvious. And his offense just isn’t needed when you have Zion/BI and then Jonas in the starting lineup. Jose can be very impactful without even putting up a shot and that is exactly what is needed with the starting lineup. He moves the ball very quickly on offense, plus with the energy that both he and Herb play on the defensive end. Those two together can really drain an opposing offense.

Plus this would allow CJ to come in and focus on what he does best, just come in and score.

We are on the same page concerning CJ's usage/defense but I disagree that it should be Alvarado. He had the bench unit humming last night. I was thinking more Daniels before but the shooting coach has some work ahead. Watching the bench last night without Murphy, I'm thining Murphy. This with BI not playing, showing clearly they only really need someone who can defend/shoot but the d raises the teams ceiling, which means CJ doesn't. Naji as BI's place holder was -17, Bulls pacled the paing drawing a 3 second violation despite Herb hitting 2 early 3's. Bench looked great in part because of how well Hayes & Graham played but In this scenario it also showed how effective CJ's game would fit with that unit in Grahams place. Hayes play on the other hand had me second guessing myself swapping him for Poeltl... his potential was oozing last night. Maybe a deadline thought..

I'm thinking -

Jonas - Hayes
Zion - Nance
Murphy - Daniels
Herb - CJ (in place of Graham)
BI - Alvarado

I've been watching Murphy being used from the 4pt line they don't lose CJ's spacing ability unless they choose to sub Herb for Murphy...Like u, I think Making BI point man with the starters would increase the teams length & he would draw more attention as the primary ball handler than CJ poinding the ball, teams won't be able to sag off BI's mid range game/length, he would have more defensive gravity. Whereas CJ is more of an upgrade to what Graham was doing last night long term as it would have been hard to outplay what Graham actually did last night, showing his potential fit with the bench unit. Reason again outside the off court contributions, I would not have traded for CJ. 11m off the bench vs 30m, just saying knowing he is an upgrade to Graham. From where I am, I can't determine his overall off court impact

Jonas & Zion were playing in heavy traffic though Herb hit an early 2, 3 pointers. Would Bulls still have been able to pack the paint if BI was playing in place of Naji ?.. As soon as Zion curled off the high Jonas screen into the paint, there was 2 players waiting.

Hayes & Graham stood out, good for both of them. I'm seeing why they have not rushed to trade despite the pending cap issues. Hayes plays like that all yr, he's going to get paid. Bench overall looked great. Bulls made their run with Daniels struggling offensively at the end when he was given reigns of the 3rd string but he impressed defensively. Seabron looked quick/good too... so now what happens with Kira with Seabron being a cheap option ? because when both BI & Murphy return as is, Daniels as a rookie would be the odd man out the current 10 man rotation.

Using Naji as BI place holder it allowed us to see the bench's chemistry. With Ingram starting in place of Naji, Bulls starters would have been even more outmatched as they were never really in control of this match either. The chemistry of the starters, bench were night & day. Hopefully BI will get to play in the preseason.

Loved the staggered lineups even though all weren't effective, now is the time to experiment. Green making his strides as a coach too. Very little to be upset about last night. Zion's last play, the dime to Jonas before he was subbed out is going to give team fits as Jonas is I believe 13th overall in true shooting.. if Zion can hit him in the paint like that off his double team with Jonas requiring gang rebounding, there's going to be open bodies. I'm excited to see what the starters look like with BI. I mean 70 first half points with one of your better offensive threats replaced by Naji...

That Bulls roster is no joke team either.

[Duke4life831]

Alvarado should be starting. Obviously he’s not individually as talented as CJ, he just fits so much better.

Even in preseason CJ’s bad defense is beyond obvious. And his offense just isn’t needed when you have Zion/BI and then Jonas in the starting lineup. Jose can be very impactful without even putting up a shot and that is exactly what is needed with the starting lineup. He moves the ball very quickly on offense, plus with the energy that both he and Herb play on the defensive end. Those two together can really drain an opposing offense.

Plus this would allow CJ to come in and focus on what he does best, just come in and score.

We are on the same page concerning CJ's usage/defense but I disagree that it should be Alvarado. He had the bench unit humming last night. I was thinking more Daniels before but the shooting coach has some work ahead. Watching the bench last night without Murphy, I'm thining Murphy. This with BI not playing, showing clearly they only really need someone who can defend/shoot but the d raises the teams ceiling, which means CJ doesn't. Naji as BI's place holder was -17, Bulls pacled the paing drawing a 3 second violation despite Herb hitting 2 early 3's. Bench looked great in part because of how well Hayes & Graham played but In this scenario it also showed how effective CJ's game would fit with that unit in Grahams place. Hayes play on the other hand had me second guessing myself swapping him for Poeltl... his potential was oozing last night. Maybe a deadline thought..

I'm thinking -

Jonas - Hayes
Zion - Nance
Murphy - Daniels
Herb - CJ (in place of Graham)
BI - Alvarado

I've been watching Murphy being used from the 4pt line they don't lose CJ's spacing ability unless they choose to sub Herb for Murphy...Like u, I think Making BI point man with the starters would increase the teams length & he would draw more attention as the primary ball handler than CJ poinding the ball, teams won't be able to sag off BI's mid range game/length, he would have more defensive gravity. Whereas CJ is more of an upgrade to what Graham was doing last night long term as it would have been hard to outplay what Graham actually did last night, showing his potential fit with the bench unit. Reason again outside the off court contributions, I would not have traded for CJ. 11m off the bench vs 30m, just saying knowing he is an upgrade to Graham. From where I am, I can't determine his overall off court impact

Jonas & Zion were playing in heavy traffic though Herb hit an early 2, 3 pointers. Would Bulls still have been able to pack the paint if BI was playing in place of Naji ?.. As soon as Zion curled off the high Jonas screen into the paint, there was 2 players waiting.

Hayes & Graham stood out, good for both of them. I'm seeing why they have not rushed to trade despite the pending cap issues. Hayes plays like that all yr, he's going to get paid. Bench overall looked great. Bulls made their run with Daniels struggling offensively at the end when he was given reigns of the 3rd string but he impressed defensively. Seabron looked quick/good too... so now what happens with Kira with Seabron being a cheap option ? because when both BI & Murphy return as is, Daniels as a rookie would be the odd man out the current 10 man rotation.

Using Naji as BI place holder it allowed us to see the bench's chemistry. With Ingram starting in place of Naji, Bulls starters would have been even more outmatched as they were never really in control of this match either. The chemistry of the starters, bench were night & day. Hopefully BI will get to play in the preseason.

Loved the staggered lineups even though all weren't effective, now is the time to experiment. Green making his strides as a coach too. Very little to be upset about last night. Zion's last play, the dime to Jonas before he was subbed out is going to give team fits as Jonas is I believe 13th overall in true shooting.. if Zion can hit him in the paint like that off his double team with Jonas requiring gang rebounding, there's going to be open bodies. I'm excited to see what the starters look like with BI. I mean 70 first half points with one of your better offensive threats replaced by Naji...

That Bulls roster is no joke team either.

Ya I wouldnt be against Murphy in there instead. I think Daniels is still a year away from being in the discussion. No doubt he showed flashes last night, but he also showed he still has a long ways to go. Defensively he showed plenty of flashes, but I noticed many times he got flat out lost on defense, no clue where his man was and no clue where he was supposed to be. Then offensively again the flashes are no doubt there, I just dont think it comes quickly enough for him. The ball really never got stuck in Alvarado's hands, he'd either get the ball and pass it to keep it moving, or he would attack and most of the time kick it out. To me that is ideal to pair with BI/Zion as the 3rd ball handler. Then again defensively ya he may not be mr fundamental 100% of the time, but his energy is ridiculous and is no doubt a big plus on that end. And ya having both him and Herb hounding the opposing team's best two perimeter player, that really makes BI/Zion game on that end a lot easier.

But ya I wouldnt be against Murphy in that spot either. Essentially go full board with PG BI (I think both you and I are pretty clear we would like this scenario) and you get that legit 3&D wing out there. I would say for teams with a PG like Ja, I would want Alvarado out there starting, go a little smaller when dealing with a super quick PG. But ya definitely wouldnt be against that route either.

I will say if it is Alvarado, I wouldnt worry about that bench rotation humming. It would look very different than what we saw last night. It would be led by CJ/Murphy/Nance then allow Willy and Hayes to battle it out for the last big and allow Graham and Daniels to battle it out for the last perimeter spot. I think that would be a pretty filthy bench unit.

And ya I do agree that Zion definitely didnt have an open lane to deal with. This is why Ive always been hesitant on how good of a fit he will be next to Jonas. This is no shot at Jonas either, I like him a lot. But ya his 36% from 3 last year is pretty misleading. All of that basically came within the first month of the season. And when looking at his 3pt shot attempts

158 attempts
only 3 attempts did he have an opponent within 4ft of him.

So he was considered open on 98% of his 3pt attempts. Which means he isnt dragging his man out to the perimeter when he goes out there. There is zero respect for his jumper.

So ya no doubt if BI is in there instead of Naji, he is going to create more gravity. But Zion is going to be dealing with a pretty clogged up lane whenever he is playing alongside Jonas. And on the flipside, BI is going to be dealing with an extremely clogged up lane, he is going to have his man, Jonas's man, and Zion's man. BI had to deal with the same issue last year, but ya I think it would really open up that lane if there was a 5 that could at least drag his man out to the perimeter somewhat.

[Whole Truth]

Can't argue with that but I want to wait till I see how the unit runs with BI first. Naji being a place holder for injury will disrupt the units chemistry, he's also not much of a shooter which allowed the Bulls to cheat off him too, compounding an issue. Pels still dominated the post & shot 70% first half till Temple got burn 3rd Q with Naji.

Jonas is a reluctant shooter, his hesitation is what keeps him from being the threat NO's need him to be.

Pelicans were 27th in the league in 3pt shooting last yr on low volume, I'd pack the paint to contol Jonas & Zions post efficiency too. Jonas being 13 overall in true shooting & Zion putting up 27 on 60% efficiency, while shooting 70% at the rim. It needs to be a pick your poison, so until Pelicans as a whole prove they can be an outisde threat, not just Jonas, the defensive strategy is an easy choice.

Suns sagged off both Hayes & Herb in the PO's. Pels/Ingram were basically playing 3 on 5 offense which is why CJ shot 30% on volume & why what BI did was so impressive. He carved up a team that was ranked top 3 in defense with them loading up on him. Far more impressive than what Tatum did with the Nets lack luster D, IMO.

Can't wait for game 2, hope BI suits up for that one.

[Duke4life831]

Can't argue with that but I want to wait till I see how the unit runs with BI first. Naji being a place holder for injury will disrupt the units chemistry, he's also not much of a shooter which allowed the Bulls to cheat off him too, compounding an issue. Pels still dominated the post & shot 70% first half till Temple got burn 3rd Q with Naji.

Jonas is a reluctant shooter, his hesitation is what keeps him from being the threat NO's need him to be.

Pelicans were 27th in the league in 3pt shooting last yr on low volume, I'd pack the paint to contol Jonas & Zions post efficiency too. Jonas being 113 in true shooting & Zion putting up 27 on 60% efficiency, while shooting 70% at the rim. It's almost a pick your poison until Pelicans as a whole prove they can be an outisde threat, not just Jonas.

Suns sagged off both Hayes & Herb in the PO's. Pels/Ingram were basically playing 3 on 5 offense which is why CJ shot 30% on volume & why what BI did was so impressive. He carved up a team that was ranked top 3 in defense with them loading up on him. Far more impressive than what Tatum did with the Nets lack luster D, IMO.

Can't wait for game 2, hope BI suits up for that one.

Oh ya to be clear Im not putting the spacing issues just on Jonas. The team itself was just a bad shooting team and I agree I dont think many people understand how impressive BI truly was in the playoffs last year. He had multiple high level wing defenders being thrown at him and he had zero space to work with.

Im just saying I wonder how good BI and Zion could be if they were surrounded by 3 legit shooters. Zion playing where 4 other defenders have to stay out on the perimeter would just be unfair and if they do come and help, Zion has shown he has the IQ and willingness to make the kick out pass to an open guy. Then for BI getting to attack a defense where the only guy that can help is Zion's defender, BI would eat up that opportunity and again if Zion's man comes and help, BI is going to make that pass to Zion each time.

But as of right now with the starting lineup, Zion is going to have to deal with a clogged lane with Jonas man chilling there and teams will continue to help off of Herb until he can prove he is a legit threat from 3 (which I think he can prove that this year). But ya just saying it would be nice to see what BI and Zion could do with a more opened up lane.

[Whole Truth]

Oh ya to be clear Im not putting the spacing issues just on Jonas. The team itself was just a bad shooting team and I agree I dont think many people understand how impressive BI truly was in the playoffs last year. He had multiple high level wing defenders being thrown at him and he had zero space to work with.

Im just saying I wonder how good BI and Zion could be if they were surrounded by 3 legit shooters. Zion playing where 4 other defenders have to stay out on the perimeter would just be unfair and if they do come and help, Zion has shown he has the IQ and willingness to make the kick out pass to an open guy. Then for BI getting to attack a defense where the only guy that can help is Zion's defender, BI would eat up that opportunity and again if Zion's man comes and help, BI is going to make that pass to Zion each time.

But as of right now with the starting lineup, Zion is going to have to deal with a clogged lane with Jonas man chilling there and teams will continue to help off of Herb until he can prove he is a legit threat from 3 (which I think he can prove that this year). But ya just saying it would be nice to see what BI and Zion could do with a more opened up lane.

In staggered lineups NO's/Green has that potential. It's up to Green to recognize the advantages & disadvantages of his personel/matchups. IMO, in a pick your poison scenario (70% at the rim or 35% from 3).., teams will still try to take the paint away from Zion & take their chances with the shooting threat/s, cheat & sag.

In agreeance with u, I think the best way to improve usage, defense & offesnsive gravity in general, is to run BI as the point man, replace CJ with a lengthy 3 & D threat, either Murphy on the wing & or Nance PF/C in place of Jonas.. Those spacing option are available

Nance
Zion
Murphy
Herb
BI

Zion
Murphy
BI
Herb
CJ

If teams are not respecting Herb..

Nance
Zion
Murphy
BI
CJ

This roster has that capability & I know Jonas puts his team first since his Raptors days, question is who else would take a bench role for the best of the team... With staggered rotations this team has answers..