Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft.

[Duke4life831]

Once again, I'm on the same page. I'd ideally package CJ maybe to the Kings who are looking for a win now player (Maybe 3 team trade) with a pick or 2 packaged to move into the 4th pick slot. Maube Kings are still interested in Simmons & with Nets also looking to win now, NO's could end up with the pick in this 3 team scenario.. Maybe toss in Hayes as a sweetner, move his impending extension with Nets needing some size... Where getting CJ, might allow them to trade Kyrie..

Want to just touch on my point earlier concerning Mark at 8th vs say Koloko as a defensive rim runner early 2nd round

Height - #8 (Mark 7'.25") vs #30 (Koloko 6'11") 1.25" difference
standing reach - #8 (Mark 9'9") vs #30 (Koloko 9'5") 4" difference
Wingspan - #8 (Mark 7'6.6") vs #30 (Koloko 7'4.25") 1.5" difference

Standing Vert - #8 (Mark not in top 5( vs #0 (Koloko 28.00) #1 among centres
Max vert - #8 (Mark not in top 5) vs #30 (Koloko 33.5) #1 among centress
Shuttle run - #8 (Mark not in top 5) vs #30 (Koloko 3.19) #1 among centres

Lane agility - #8 (Mark not in top 5) vs #30 (Koloko 11.30) #1 among centres
3/4 sprint - #8 (Mark not in top 5) vs #30 (Koloko 3.27) #1 among centres

In my above suggestion. NO's IMO should package both 2nd round picks for the 30th pick & take Koloko as the defensive rim runner. Reason for trading upto 30 would be the cheap rookie scale & control apposed to the short contract control of the 2nd round.

I haven't seen Mark's athletic testing popup yet, so not sure how he is looking in that area. I also want to be clear, Im 100% with you. I would much rather spend a late 1st/early 2nd on a rim running defensive big. That to me is always the ideal scenario.

With that said, I think Mark projects out to be the much better player, again defensively he is as elite as they come. So I think there will be a significant gap between the two of them when it comes to their NBA impact. But with that said, Im definitely not against the idea of Koloko late 1st or in the 2nd. I would call it an ideal draft if the Pels left with Mathurin/AJ from 8, and a defensive rim running big like Koloko in the 2nd, home run draft in my opinion.

Again my whole Mark at 8 talk is with the mindset of this front office not wanting to go big guard and wanting to go big because of CJ. If that is the case, my hope would be they go Mark over say Duren. So if that is the case, I think Mark would be the best case scenario out of that worst case scenario haha. Im still 100% in the thought process that the ideal draft at 8 is Mathruin/AJ.

I saw this play out with Toronto. Jonas was a big part of their ECF's run before he got hurt in the Miami series but before he did, at the time he knocked out his counterpart first so Heat were without their big man aswell but Jonas & the Raptors could never hurdle the Cavs because of their ability to stretch the floor with Love at the 5 but a good part of that was because of the combination defense of Derozan.

Jonas played 20mins a game at that point & was a part time player yet he was the reason.... Raptors traded for Bizz & Ibaka a small ball 5 & none could help Derozan overcome the Cavs because Jonas was not the main issue just like this current situation. NO's will unsuccessfully like Portland try to win with CJ.

Nance had a strong series against the Suns & he helped mask CJ's flaws to an extent but the main reason Suns won is because Paul was able to get to his spots & didn't have to concern himself with playing defense, where he got to rest...

IMO, Getting a big to compliment CJ would be the 2nd dumbest thing this franshice could do next to extending him.

Whereas Jonas is value at 15m & would easily & readily accept a demotion to the bench if it was best for this team.

Priority 1 - big 3&D gaurd to replace CJ. = Mathurin/Herb/BI/Zion-- priority 2

Yup. Again Im a big Mark Williams fan and these measurements are freakishly good. I think he fits the team even when you cut out CJ. BI/Herb/Zion/Mark then plug in another perimeter player that can shoot, I think that is a damn good lineup going forward. So again I think Mark is the best case in the worst case scenario.

But I agree 100%, I wouldnt want to spend the 8th pick on a strict 5. Especially when most likely there are going to be big guards available who can really shoot it like Mathurin and AJ. Going forward I would love to see a lineup of

BI
Mathurin/AJ
Herb
Zion
?

To me filling that 5 spot role is much easier than finding a good big wing. And I think there are two ideal guys that will be sitting at 8 with Mathurin/AJ. It would be really really dumb to pass on them because of CJ. Just like I think it will be extremely dumb trying to run a starting lineup with BI/Zion/CJ.

In my opinion the way Griffin and Langdon should be looking at it is

BI
?
Herb
Zion
?

Those are the 3 locked in guys. Every move from here on out should only have one focus, how do they fit alongside those 3 guys. That's it.

[Whole Truth]

NO's have at C - Jonas/Hayes/Nance/Hermangomez.. 4 different type of big men.

Paul dominates the NO's series & it's the big man rotation that needs to be addressed with CJ being the biggest liability in the series on both ends. Shooting a blistering 35% on volume while playing no D & an impressive 2-1 ATO rate on low volume. Jonas an excellent PNR big was used in how much PNR action ? nope the efficient offensive centre's production had to come off his ability to rebound because CJ never met a shot he didn't like.

NO's assesment, Lets get another C to help CJ shoot better, pass better & defend better. Good thing he's on a max contract aswell to help cap situation. Lets extend that handicap, lol.

I read just this morning a NO's poster talking about Mcgee & Ayton dominating Jonas when neither player did much creating of their offensie. Ayton was used as a set shooter & their buckets were mostly assisted which Means Jonas was in a help position where he's at his weakest & that is in good part to Paul getting to where he wanted, unabated where Willie had to once again turn to Herb on the smaller, quicker gaurd.

NO's have a great asset with the 8th pick. Lets not make that about CJ too. The core of this NO's team, is currently Zion/BI/Herb & it should be on how to best to compliment them = Big 3 & D guard who can effectively guard the 1 & play offball. Not CJ dominating the ball & a centre to compliment his weaknesses as a player. (I feel ill just typing that).

[Whole Truth]

To me filling that 5 spot role is much easier than finding a good big wing. And I think there are two ideal guys that will be sitting at 8 with Mathurin/AJ. It would be really really dumb to pass on them because of CJ. Just like I think it will be extremely dumb trying to run a starting lineup with BI/Zion/CJ.

In my opinion the way Griffin and Langdon should be looking at it is

BI
?
Herb
Zion
?

Those are the 3 locked in guys. Every move from here on out should only have one focus, how do they fit alongside those 3 guys. That's it.

Exactly.. IMO

BI - Alvarado - Kira
(#8 - Mathurin) - CJ 6th man - Graham
Herb - Murphy - Naji
Zion - Haye - Nance
Jonas - (#30 Koloko) - Hermangomez - Nance

Vs

CJ
BI
Herb
Zion
(#8 Mark)

I can't imagine that 2nd unit in a half court offense... Can mark shoot 3's or 15 foot jumpers ?. He better be a good defender because BI & CJ would have to do some heavy lifting offensively.

[Duke4life831]

To me filling that 5 spot role is much easier than finding a good big wing. And I think there are two ideal guys that will be sitting at 8 with Mathurin/AJ. It would be really really dumb to pass on them because of CJ. Just like I think it will be extremely dumb trying to run a starting lineup with BI/Zion/CJ.

In my opinion the way Griffin and Langdon should be looking at it is

BI
?
Herb
Zion
?

Those are the 3 locked in guys. Every move from here on out should only have one focus, how do they fit alongside those 3 guys. That's it.

Exactly.. IMO

BI - Alvarado - Kira
(#8 - Mathurin) - CJ 6th man - Graham
Herb - Murphy - Naji
Zion - Haye - Nance
Jonas - (#30 Koloko) - Hermangomez - Nance

Vs

CJ
BI
Herb
Zion
(#8 Mark)

I can't imagine that 2nd unit in a half court offense... Can mark shoot 3's or 15 foot jumpers ?. He better be a good defender because BI & CJ would have to do some heavy lifting offensively.

Ya I would much rather go with that first option. And the other thing is, there is a lot of moveable parts and assets to continue to fill around it. CJ, Graham, Hayes, and Kira are all moveable. There is plenty of future draft assets to use as well. Again like a quick breakdown

Guys to build around:
BI/Zion/Herb

Cheap guys that fit the everyday rotation very well:
Alvarado/Murphy/Nance

Ive got no problem keeping Jonas throughout his contract, I think both you and I see his impact last year and dont buy into the "Jonas didnt play well" in the playoffs narrative. I do have some questions on how well Jonas will fit next to Zion. So that is still TBD. But even if Jonas and Zion doesn't fit, Jonas on 15 mil for the next 2 years would be very easy to flip.

So that leaves guys like CJ, Graham, Hayes, Kira, Jonas (again if he and Zion end up being a bad fit), plus draft picks to move around and continue to fill out the rotation.

When it comes to Mark, I think we will see 15-18ft shots by the end of his first year and coroner 3s by the end of his rookie deal. I like the potential with his jumper, solid form, solid touch, solid FT shooter.

[Whole Truth]

To me filling that 5 spot role is much easier than finding a good big wing. And I think there are two ideal guys that will be sitting at 8 with Mathurin/AJ. It would be really really dumb to pass on them because of CJ. Just like I think it will be extremely dumb trying to run a starting lineup with BI/Zion/CJ.

In my opinion the way Griffin and Langdon should be looking at it is

BI
?
Herb
Zion
?

Those are the 3 locked in guys. Every move from here on out should only have one focus, how do they fit alongside those 3 guys. That's it.

Exactly.. IMO

BI - Alvarado - Kira
(#8 - Mathurin) - CJ 6th man - Graham
Herb - Murphy - Naji
Zion - Haye - Nance
Jonas - (#30 Koloko) - Hermangomez - Nance

Vs

CJ
BI
Herb
Zion
(#8 Mark)

I can't imagine that 2nd unit in a half court offense... Can mark shoot 3's or 15 foot jumpers ?. He better be a good defender because BI & CJ would have to do some heavy lifting offensively.

Ya I would much rather go with that first option. And the other thing is, there is a lot of moveable parts and assets to continue to fill around it. CJ, Graham, Hayes, and Kira are all moveable. There is plenty of future draft assets to use as well. Again like a quick breakdown

Guys to build around:
BI/Zion/Herb

Cheap guys that fit the everyday rotation very well:
Alvarado/Murphy/Nance

Ive got no problem keeping Jonas throughout his contract, I think both you and I see his impact last year and dont buy into the "Jonas didnt play well" in the playoffs narrative. I do have some questions on how well Jonas will fit next to Zion. So that is still TBD. But even if Jonas and Zion doesn't fit, Jonas on 15 mil for the next 2 years would be very easy to flip.

So that leaves guys like CJ, Graham, Hayes, Kira, Jonas (again if he and Zion end up being a bad fit), plus draft picks to move around and continue to fill out the rotation.

When it comes to Mark, I think we will see 15-18ft shots by the end of his first year and coroner 3s by the end of his rookie deal. I like the potential with his jumper, solid form, solid touch, solid FT shooter.

Jonas is no Zion but a post big.. NO's had the 4th worse 3pt shooting in the leaguer which led to very poor spacing regular season & PO's... as much as BI has grown as a playmaker, no real lead guard to run an effective offense/pnr's with what is a very efficient pnr big man, they even had trouble just getting him the ball in the post, yet Jonas still efficiently produced on half of what players in his range get paid twice for.. At 15m Jonas could at worse be versatile depth if he no longer fits as a starter & he's a professional who twice accepted bench roles in favor of 2 different teams wanting to develop rookies at his position, directional change, no fuss... & at that cost, IMO a manageable expense apposed to CJ's max.

Concerning any draft target i'd give the pro's the benefit of doubt though that's not hte direction I'd take this team though u know people are paying attemtion to what Boston is doing in what is a copy cat keague.

Me I prefer to lead & set trends.. No copy is ever as good as the original.

[Whole Truth]

I can't justify a lotto pick on Mark, he has some switchability potential but mainly he'll be used in drop coverage, Some team will reap the regular season reward of drafting him.. He's weak & careless with the ball so when pressure situations ramp up...

A project defensive rim runner, I wouldn't mind taking him/that risk more mid to late lotto.

Maybe consider trading Hayes to a team for him with Nance resigned at PF ?

Jonas - (15-30) Mark - Willie
Zion - Nance - Murphy

NO's would be swapping out Hayes length/rim running, extension for Marks defensive length/rim running, rookie scale.

Otherwise, package both 2nd round picks for 30, take Koloko & still have Hayes.

Jonas - (30) Koloko - Willie
Zion - Hayes - Nance

Which should really be in terns of PT

Jonas - Hayes - Koloko - Nance ------ Willie
Zion - Nance - Hayes - Murphy

Unless of course Hayes is moved regardless. Saw some smoke concerning Philly.

NO's trade - (Hayes, Graham) for (Danny G, FRP or couple 2nds)

Trade mainly
- drops 2yrs off Grahams 11m contract.
- moves Hayes before he requires extension
- opens a roster spot
- possible late/protected pick return for future currency

[Whole Truth]

I see some concern over Mathurins lack of focus & effort on defense.

If not for that current fact, he would be going a lot higher than 8th. Watch his competitive edge & tell me his defensive tools & lack of focus/effort cannot be coached up. Anyone that has a high compete level as he does IMO ultimately has the willingness to make the necessary changes to be better. No doubt in my mind Greene (a players coach) can reach/get him on that level.

As I've mentioned before. I'm no pro scout but anyone reading what I've posted here knows I've had this entire situation lined up before NO's even knew they had the pick & I continue to stand by it. I didn't just watcha youtube video & like someone.

Put Mathurin's overall game in Greene's hands & see what happens. I already know what will come of it but it's not my selection to make.

In his 2nd college yr, they asked more of him offensively & his efficiency barely dipped. What do you think would happen with him shooting open looks off of Zion & BI's usage vs being the #1 option in Zona ? or what about his shooting off of Jonas screens/rolls, where he punishes teams for trying to go under... or his general ability to move & score off ball which with him being a 3pt threat requiring necessary attention. His size, strength, speed, passable handles & athleticism at the 1 where he's not required to be the primary playmaker/scorer in an abnormal situation where the ball would be in Zion's & BI's hands. He can & will get out in transition paired with Herb's D... especially, if he can make the defensive leap with Greens coachability ...

I'm no pro scout but there's been a lot of thought & consideration behind this selection which maximizes both NO's as a team & Mathurin as a player, down to the necessary encouragement by Green as coach ..

All I can do is hope NO's see it the same way.

[Whole Truth]

Any Pelican fan remember Chriss Anderson ?

Draft souting report defense - Can be effective in spurts. Won't always stay focused, and doesn't always get in a good stance. Loves to block shots. Will try to make some plays that he probably shouldn't.

NBA scouting report defense - Defends well, is feisty, hustles hard, and always provides a spark.

I used a former NO's player for effect.

[Whole Truth]

Poster on other NO's boards said this

"Honestly, from the most simplistic point of view, if Mathurin is the player and prospect this board makes him out to be, he will be off the board before we pick anyway, so it’s all kind of irrelevant. We’ll see".

The reason one team passes shouldn't be the reason another does. Otherwise Curry would not have fell to 8th & other great players to the 2nd round. Nothing anyone else does, should be relevent to what you do.

If 7 teams pass it doesn't make selecting Mathurin at 8 irrelevent just like 7 teams passing on Curry didn't make him irrelevent.

Steph scouting report -

a "tweener" with questionable shot selection and a frail frame. His physical limitations and questions about a true position, combined to make a perfect storm of doubt. The biggest knock on Curry was that he was a shooting guard trapped in a point guard's body. Curry thrived playing off-ball.

Scouts were worried about Curry's shot selection. Nearly 60 percent of his total shot attempts as a freshman were 3-pointers, and that only dropped to 48.9 percent as a junior. Teams like Kansas in the 2008 Elite Eight wisely exploited that by playing a box-and-one with the "one" stalking Curry

And here's the funny thing about Curry's shot selection: It's still questionable. His pull-ups in transition from 35-feet would get most players in the NBA benched, but he converts those opportunities at an unprecedented rate. It's also interesting how Curry's "biggest weakness" coming into the NBA Draft has turned into one of his biggest strengths. 13.7 percent of Curry's points this season have come off of screens

Ricky Rubio was more of an unknown, but he was regarded as one of the purest point guards in recent memory from NBADraft.net. Jonny Flynn had his own faults, too, but he was an explosive guard with the ability to get to the basket at will.

The other knock on Curry was that he lacked the speed, size and athleticism to keep up with opposing point guards. Curry's athleticism was considered "far below NBA standard" heading into the NBA Draft. It's not as though he has sprouted wings or added 10 inches to his vertical, either.

lol, GS should have passed at 8 because the 7 teams before had the foresight to.

BTW what's up with Ricky ?

NBA draft is an educated guess & a leap of faith. I believe in my selection don't care about the noise...

[Whole Truth]

One knick fan tells another he likes Daniels at 11.

Other fan repsonds by saying they have a guard currently in the G-league averaging 35pts a game, lol

It's never that easy & Daniels is a good prospect but my point stands.

[Whole Truth]

In Mathurin's 2nd yr he improved in every statistical category, except one, his strength, 3pt shooting & that's attributed to the considerable increase in volime, where he still shot 37% apposed to 40%.

Should say something about him that he improved in all but one statistical category & even that one was explainable as to why.

[Zion Wembanyama]

Ousmane Dieng or Dyson Daniels at #8. Or trade down for Johnny Davis or Jeremy Sochan.

[Duke4life831]

Ousmane Dieng or Dyson Daniels at #8. Or trade down for Johnny Davis or Jeremy Sochan.

I personally dont get these fits at all.

Dieng: Poor shooter who likes the ball in his hands
Daniels: Poor shooter who likes the ball in his hands
Sochan: Very poor shooter. Doesnt fit at all in the starting lineup alongside BI/Herb/Zion
Davis: A ball dominant score first guard that has a bad 3pt shot.

Out of those guys Davis would be the only one that I think could make sense because of how good he is defensively and if he drastically improves his shot. But even with that said, he is a ball dominant score first guard. That seems to be a bad fit when you already have BI/Zion on the team.

[Whole Truth]

Philly trade - (Harris, Thybulle, 2022 #22) - (CJ, J Holiday, 2m TE)

Atlanta trade - (Collins, Delon, #13) for (Harris, Thybulle, #22)

Kings trade - (Barnes, J Holiday, #4) for (Collins, 6m TE, #13, Best of Lakers RTS 23)

NO's trade (CJ, Best of Lakers RTS 23) for (Barnes, Delon, #4)

Jonas/# 8 Mark
Zion
Barnes
Herb/# 4 Sharpe or Mathurin
BI

Duke in this scenario where CJ is traded for the 4th. If NO's draft a guard at 4 (Sharpe/Mathurin) they can take Mark with the 8th pick. Delon is 8m expiring so it helps clean up the cap a bit, allows for Hayes impending extension. I toyed with the idea of sending Hayes to Sacramento instead of the 6 mil TE.

Basic concept Kings get their win now addition, a trade down pick & FRP to not ignore their future consideration. The trade might need to adjust the value but it's the basic concept. NO's trade CJ + Lakers 23 for #4 & overall salary reduction. Which allows them to alter focus of the 8th pick.

[Whole Truth]

- Philly net their rumored desired 3rd star with CJ & shed some necessary salary, 4-5m along with moving the picks salary in trade.

- Hawks shakeup & get better defensively with Harris & Thybulle.

- Kings get their win now PF Collins & a couple picks to balance contending with future consideration.

- NO's turn CJ's fit & max contract into the 4th pick & cap savings. Which opens up what NO's can do at 4 & 8th. Potentially repackage the 4th pick to move up further.

Don't touch the Lakers 24/25 pick. Lebron didn't take the extension & he's most likely going to walk & they will not be able to replace that lost production in free agency with the uniqueness of the pick to swap yrs, unprotected. IMO it's as close as you will get to an untouchable asset.

[Whole Truth]

Banchero, Chet, Jabari with Daniels getting top 5 buzz, is some great news.

He supposedly went 9-9 from 3 at the combine Anyone remember when Cam was lighting up the 3 pt line during workouts to justify his draft slot ?.

None the less, Daniels moving into the top 5 with some combination of Ivey, Sharpe would mean one of the 2 top 7 teams that could use a PF like Murray would see Ben fall to 8 .

Unforunately, I also saw a NY post mock that had Mathurin going 4th too .. Hopefully, Kings prefer Murray, which is a need for them.

[Whole Truth]

Watch on YouTube

[Whole Truth]

Posted this on the trade board sloghtly altered in response to a Houston fan suggestion.

New Orleans trade (Zion, #8) for (Holmes, #3, #4)

Houston trade (Gordon, #3, #17) for (Zion, J.Holiday)

Detroit trade (Grant) for (Gordon, -#17 pick)

Sacramento trade (Holmes, Holiday #4) for (Grant, #8, FRP)


#3 - Smith
#4 - Sharpe or 3&D wing of 1st choice. Mine of course is Mathurin. So theoretically NO's could then potentially trade back down for a different package.

Jonas - Holmes - Hermangomez
#3 Smith - Nance - Hayes ?
Herb - Murphy - Naji
BI - CJ - Graham ?
#4 Sharpe/Mathurin - Alvarado - Kira ?

To NO's Zion is a generational offensive talent, sub par defender, health risk & impending max contract risk - where Smith would provide defensive switchability & spacing on rookie scale to an already capable/good offense. Also drafted, is a big 3&D guard which are skills that should translate, replacing CJ's lack of size & defensively as a catch & shoot option, secondary ball handler.. CJ becomes the #1 offensive option off the bench, where Green can opt to close games with the veteran, if necessary. Holmes also gives the centre position another defensive look to Nance as a small ball option... IMO balances both units better.. With the smallest starter being 6'6" with a 6'10" wing span. Leaving only Jonas as the defensive liability, with Holmes, Nance & Smith as potential defensive options at the position..

Smith the future small ball 5 with 1-5 switchabily & spacing at some point of his development where NO's can utilize CJ as point in thsese scernarios if they want/need another capable playmaker/shot creator.

[Whole Truth]

In combination use the 2 2nd round picks & try to trade up to 30 to draft another potential C where his first round small rookie scale is under control longer.

One of Koloko, Cockburn or Khalifa Diop.

[Whole Truth]

Watch on YouTube

This highlight video show the potential in Mathurin's game... passing, defense & playmaking.