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Baseball America Midseason Top 25
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:28 pm
by cmaff051
1. Justin Upton, of, Diamondbacks .318/.399/.535 (AA)
2. Jay Bruce, of, Reds .325/.384/.602 (AA)
3. Cameron Maybin, of, Tigers .303/.396/.466 (Hi A)
4. Evan Longoria, 3b, Devil Rays .301/.396/.522 (AA)
5. Homer Bailey, rhp, Reds 6-1, 2.31 (AAA)
6. Clayton Kershaw, lhp, Dodgers 7-3, 2.12 (Lo A)
7. Clay Buchholz, rhp, Red Sox 7-2, 1.77 (AA)
8. Jacob McGee, lhp, Devil Rays 5-3, 2.86 (Hi A)
9. Joba Chamberlain, rhp, Yankees 7-1, 2.26 (AA)
10. Adam Jones, of, Mariners .309/.377/.585 (AAA)
11. Wade Davis, rhp, Devil Rays 6-0, 1.82 (AA)
12. Colby Rasmus, of, Cardinals .258/.354/.513 (AA)
13. Brandon Wood, 3b, Angels .264/.345/.476 (AAA)
14. Andrew McCutchen, of, Pirates .238/.303/.350 (AA)
15. Fernando Martinez, of, Mets .271/.336/.377 (AA) N
16. Deolis Guerra, rhp, Mets 1-5, 4.58 (Hi A)
17. Travis Snider, of, Blue Jays .313/.379/.511 (Lo A)
18. Joey Votto, 1b, Reds .315/.412/.482 (AAA)
19. Eric Hurley, rhp, Rangers 8-4, 3.42(AAA)
20. Nick Adenhart, rhp, Angels 6-2, 3.33 (AA)
21. Jeff Clement, c, Mariners .274/.366/.513 (AAA)
22. Carlos Carrasco, rhp, Phillies 9-2, 2.99 (AA)
23. Chuck Lofgren, lhp, Indians 8-6, 4.53 (AA)
24. Gio Gonzalez, lhp, White Sox 6-4, 3.10 (AA)
25. Reid Brignac, ss, Devil Rays
Thoughts? Personall, I think it is a joke that Guerra is even in the Top 25. Tabata isn't even an honorable mention. Callis says that injury concerns kept Tabata out of the Top 25, but Martinez has injury concerns also.
I also think Buchholz and Maybin should switch places on this list.
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:51 am
by nykgeneralmanager
Having Martinez so far ahead of Tabata is a joke. Martinez hasn't hit since low A ball while Tabata is raking at high A. And aside from Martinez's lack of hitting, he has what, 3 steals down there? Not impressive at all. It doesn't really matter I guess, they don't seem to put much into the midseason rankings which is why they only do 25. The offseason ones mean the most, a lot of scouts like when guys play well at a level for a full year.
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:17 am
by treyZz
15. Fernando Martinez, of, Mets .271/.336/.377 (AA) N
LOL
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:50 am
by Bleeding Green
That looks pretty good for an 18 in AA to me. Actually, that's otherworldly. Imagine putting a high-school senior in AA. Most players Martinez' age are in Short season A ball or Low-A if they're really advanced. He's two full levels above Low-A.
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:23 am
by nykgeneralmanager
Bleeding Green wrote:That looks pretty good for an 18 in AA to me. Actually, that's otherworldly. Imagine putting a high-school senior in AA. Most players Martinez' age are in Short season A ball or Low-A if they're really advanced. He's two full levels above Low-A.
But the point is that he has no business being in AA, he was absolutely awful in his short stint in high A. He hasn't shown an ability to consistently get on base, to steal (3 SB, 4 CS, and speed was his claim to fame) or much else. I've read that he has been so bad defensively that the Mets don't even know where to try to play him.
And even if you want to say .271/.336/.377 in AA is "otherworldly," I won't even argue it for now. But there is no way that Tabata's .310/.372/.390 with 44 RBI and 14 SB (only 3 CS) to go along with superior defense in high A isn't 10 times more impressive.
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:00 am
by Bleeding Green
It's less impressive because it's at High-A.
Code: Select all
IsoP BB% K%
Tabata .085 7.8 15.7
Martinez .106 8.4 19.5Martinez has more power, walks slightly more and strikes out a little more. But he's also at a higher level.
They're both tremendous talents. I don't know why it has to be Martinez v. Tabata all the time. Like if you say something good about one of them, it's a knock on the other player or something.
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:14 am
by nykgeneralmanager
Bleeding Green wrote:It's less impressive because it's at High-A.
Code: Select all
IsoP BB% K%
Tabata .085 7.8 15.7
Martinez .106 8.4 19.5Martinez has more power, walks slightly more and strikes out a little more. But he's also at a higher level.
They're both tremendous talents. I don't know why it has to be Martinez v. Tabata all the time. Like if you say something good about one of them, it's a knock on the other player or something.
But Tabata's numbers in high A are blowing Martinez's out of the water outside of the power numbers, and the FSL is largely a pitcher's league, and Tabata plays in what is ridiculously a pitcher's park.
As for the Tabata/Martinez, that's just how it is. Two players who are the same age, with similar tools, etc. It's like Jeter/Reyes, Wright/ARod, and last year the Hughes/Pelfrey arguments. So far the Yanks are 3-0 on those, so I like my chances with Tabata.
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:25 am
by mets87
predictable that yankee fans would whine about rankings of prospects that no one gives a **** about
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:57 pm
by nykgeneralmanager
mets87 wrote:predictable that yankee fans would whine about rankings of prospects that no one gives a **** about
If nobody gave a **** about them then there wouldn't be 20 sites that make these rankings, and there wouldn't be all the fans that read them. They create discussion. Nobody is whining. Obviously you gave a **** about it to even open the thread and comment.
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:42 pm
by mets87
nobody's whining? you're doing your best to **** on f-mart for no reason at all just because your precious prospect isn't on some frickin' list? jesus christ man, how many of these "top prospects" do you think are actually gonna make it to the majors and be good enough to stay there?
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:46 pm
by nykgeneralmanager
mets87 wrote:nobody's whining? you're doing your best to **** on f-mart for no reason at all just because your precious prospect isn't on some frickin' list? jesus christ man, how many of these "top prospects" do you think are actually gonna make it to the majors and be good enough to stay there?
These rankings are made for a reason. It's for hardcore baseball fans like us, who pay attention to the minors, to look at and disagree with. Now if you don't want to do that, then don't open the damn thread.
I feel that Martinez isn't deserving of that spot, you don't have to agree with me. I don't care if he was a Pirates prospect and Tabata didn't even exist, that wouldn't make Martinez any more deserving.
Do you want me to go through the whole list so you don't get offended that I singled out your Fernando Martinez? I feel that Buchholz and Chamberlain are the top 2 pitching prospects in baseball right now, Bailey lacks way too much control to be so high at this moment, he'd probably struggle to consistently throw strikes to you and I. Brandon Wood and Deolis Guerra should be lower, and Adenhart and Votto should be higher.
Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:10 am
by Bleeding Green
nykgeneralmanager wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
But Tabata's numbers in high A are blowing Martinez's out of the water outside of the power numbers, and the FSL is largely a pitcher's league, and Tabata plays in what is ridiculously a pitcher's park.
As for the Tabata/Martinez, that's just how it is. Two players who are the same age, with similar tools, etc. It's like Jeter/Reyes, Wright/ARod, and last year the Hughes/Pelfrey arguments. So far the Yanks are 3-0 on those, so I like my chances with Tabata. :lol:
Blowing out of the water? He just has a higher average. Martinez has shown better secondary skills and he's playing at a higher level. The difference between High-A and AA is pretty significant.
2-1 in those arguments, by the way.
Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:22 am
by TyCobb
I think the biggest improvement Brandon Wood has made is his BB:K ratio.
Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:28 am
by nykgeneralmanager
Bleeding Green wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Blowing out of the water? He just has a higher average. Martinez has shown better secondary skills and he's playing at a higher level. The difference between High-A and AA is pretty significant.
2-1 in those arguments, by the way.
I think speed and defense should play into the equation of how good a player is, especially when Martinez was known for his speed. Where is it? The Mets don't know what the hell to do with the kid defensively. All of the tools that were hyped up about 2 years ago, I just don't see them and I don't see any steady improvement. I'm not sitting here saying he can't be a star down the road, but people have to relax on the hype of him.
Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:44 pm
by TSC25
I can't believe the Reds havent moved either Dunn or Griffey and brought Bruce up.
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:47 pm
by The Rondo Show
I understand Kershaw has awesome stuff but he is Low-A and he has a 4.434 BB/9. I think it is a little ridiculous to rank Kershaw over Buchholz at the moment as Buchholz has huge upside (if not quite as huge as Kershaw) and is likely a safer bet to reach that big upside considering he doesn't have those control problems and is probably a month away from the majors instead of in Low-A. I think Buchholz is better than Bailey as well and wasn't as impressed as I expected to be in Bailey's stuff in the 3-4 starts of his I saw.
I also don't like ranking guys who are in the low minors, all tools and average production so high but that's just me.
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:21 pm
by TyCobb
The only reason Kershaw's BB/9 is so high, is because he has to face Matt Sweeney so much.
Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:24 pm
by bigboy1234
TyCobb wrote:The only reason Kershaw's BB/9 is so high, is because he has to face Matt Sweeney so much.
Which is also why his K/9 is so high.
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:43 am
by Bleeding Green
Justin Masterson is better anyway.
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:04 am
by cmaff051
Bleeding Green wrote:Justin Masterson is better anyway.
Stop being a homer and stop making snap judgements after 30 innings. Masterson was anything but impressive in Lancaster regardless of the park factors there.