Dan Haren??? Also Fielder/CC for Howard/Escobar

Post #1 » by **nykgeneralmanager** » Tue Jun 5, 2007 5:15 am

He isn't going to have a 1.5 ERA through the entire season, and he is helped by an awful offense and backed up by an even worse bullpen. His stock is sky high, but truth is he doesn't reel in enough wins.

I'm in a keeper league, and he is my 1st or 2nd best pitcher (my other pitchers include Bonderman, Escobar, Vazquez, Phil Hughes, Homer Bailey, Boof Bonser, Braden Looper, and Paul Byrd among a few others).

I think that if I package him I can get a fantastic hitter to help me in the home run/RBI departments, which I could use.

So do you guys think I should sell high? And if so, what type of hitter should I go after?

Post #2 » by **OldNo7** » Tue Jun 5, 2007 11:30 am

Would depend on who you can get for him. Just because it wont stay at 1.50 doesnt mean it wont stay as one of the tops in the league. He is a very good pitcher.

Post #3 » by **nykgeneralmanager** » Tue Jun 5, 2007 12:49 pm

whosthebosh? wrote:Would depend on who you can get for him. Just because it wont stay at 1.50 doesnt mean it wont stay as one of the tops in the league. He is a very good pitcher.

He is certainly a very good pitcher, unfortunately he has no chance to win 17+ games on that crappy team, so his amazing start is being wasted for the most part. His ERA won't stay where it is, I think it will finish below 3, but only with about 14-16 wins. Which isn't bad, but not enough for such a good pitcher. He's the type of guy that I can get more in return than what he is giving me, at least I think so.

Post #4 » by **lpsevier** » Tue Jun 5, 2007 1:46 pm

Wins are just one stat category though. I'd hold on to him.

bigboy1234 · Post #5 » by **bigboy1234** » Wed Jun 6, 2007 9:36 am

Try trading him for Ryan Howard, if you have to add something do it.

Post #6 » by **nykgeneralmanager** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:48 pm

bigboy1234 wrote:Try trading him for Ryan Howard, if you have to add something do it.

The funny thing is that I already traded Prince Fielder and Sabathia for Howard and Escobar (this is when Fielder had like 13 homers or so).

We're going to have 7 keepers, and I have Vlad, Miguel Cabrera, Haren, Bonderman, Tejada, Cano, Matsui, Phil Hughes, Homer Bailey all as possible keepers. So I figured it would be smart to trade 2 keepers for 1 and a good starter in Escobar.

Post #7 » by **OldNo7** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:17 pm

Not sure if I like that for you. Sabathia is awesome and there isnt anything wrong with Fielders bat.

Post #8 » by **nykgeneralmanager** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:13 pm

I consider Escobar arguably the most underrated pitcher in baseball. His stats are as good as, if not better than Sabathia's over the last few years. He has slightly less Ks, but also slightly less IP.

And I don't think anybody would argue Howard's bat being better than Fielder's. As good as Fielder is, he will not put up the power numbers of Howard.

It was actually an easy deal for me to make, I felt it was a no brainer.

EDIT: Here are their 3-year averages:
Sabathia - 192.1 innings, 13-10, 157 Ks, 3.79 ERA, 1.248 WHIP
Escobar - 152.1 innings, 8-9, 134 Ks, 3.66 ERA, 1.260 WHIP

Escobar's innings are held down because he pitched just 59.2 in 2005. With the same amount of innings as Sabathia, he could have more Ks with a lower ERA. Wins are a variable stat to me, so I don't worry about them...they come with good pitching more often than not.

And like I said, Howard's bat is much better than Fielder's regardless of Fielder's season so far.

Post #9 » by **lpsevier** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:25 pm

You think Howard has more long term keeper league power potential than Fielder?

I think thats debatable.

Post #10 » by **nykgeneralmanager** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:34 pm

lpsevier wrote:You think Howard has more long term keeper league power potential than Fielder?

I think thats debatable.

Yes, I do feel that way. Howard is barely in his prime.

Post #11 » by **OldNo7** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:59 pm

nykgeneralmanager wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Yes, I do feel that way. Howard is barely in his prime.

Fielder is 4 years younger than Howard, so if Howard, at 27 is "barely" in his prime, what is Prince? And he is one of the best hitters in the league this year - showing potential to be on of the tops for the next 8-11 years perhaps (he is only 23).
Sabathia is 4 years younger than Escobar and MUCH better this year. Much better, as in, top 3-4 in the league. You should also factor in the teams these pitchers played for. I bet you Escobar's Angels had a far surperior record to the Indians over the last 3, meaning he pitching for better teams, meaning better support/better defence, etc.

Its not so much a no-brainer as you think. If it were me, it would be a no-brainer for the other guy.

Post #12 » by **nykgeneralmanager** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:28 pm

whosthebosh? wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Fielder is 4 years younger than Howard, so if Howard, at 27 is "barely" in his prime, what is Prince? And he is one of the best hitters in the league this year - showing potential to be on of the tops for the next 8-11 years perhaps (he is only 23).
Sabathia is 4 years younger than Escobar and MUCH better this year. Much better, as in, top 3-4 in the league. You should also factor in the teams these pitchers played for. I bet you Escobar's Angels had a far surperior record to the Indians over the last 3, meaning he pitching for better teams, meaning better support/better defence, etc.

Its not so much a no-brainer as you think. If it were me, it would be a no-brainer for the other guy.

Fielder is not going to be the power hitter that Howard is. Fielder can certainly hit 35-45 a season, but I think Howard can sit in the 50 HR area with easy on a yearly basis. Fielder has been on a tear for a couple of weeks, but don't let that fool you. He will be one of the better power hitters in the majors, but Howard will be THE best year in and year out.

As for CC/Escobar, show me where Sabathia has been MUCH better. Actually screw the MUCH, show me where he has just been better. Sure he has more wins, but I already talked about that being a variable stat...Tyler Clippard has more wins than Matt Cain. Escobar has a better ERA and WHIP, but less K/9.

And if you read my earlier post, you would understand that Sabathia's age means nothing to me, he was a borderline keeper for me. Vlad, Cabrera, Howard, Bonderman, Haren are my definite keepers, and I also have Hughes, Bailey, Tejada.

The trade was a no brainer, don't get TOO caught up in Fielder's run over the last couple of weels, he is not the hitter that Howard is.

Post #13 » by **lpsevier** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:58 pm

I would rather have Fielder and CC in a keeper league.

You really think Howard can touch 49-52 HR's a year?

Post #14 » by **nykgeneralmanager** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:01 pm

lpsevier wrote:I would rather have Fielder and CC in a keeper league.

You really think Howard can touch 49-52 HR's a year?

CC wouldn't be a keeper on my team, that is the reason I did the trade.

And yes I do believe Howard can do that, at the very least he will be a better run producer than Fielder every year.

Post #15 » by **lpsevier** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:08 pm

Why would you not keep CC?

Post #16 » by **nykgeneralmanager** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:24 pm

lpsevier wrote:Why would you not keep CC?

The pitchers I would definitely keep are Bonderman and Haren, and I would like to keep Hughes and Bailey as long as they prove they are worth it down the stretch. If not both, then I want to keep one of them. I have a lot of hitters to choose from so I really can't keep 4 pitchers, definitely not 5.

It's not that there was a 0% chance I would've kept him, but it was worth sacraficing him (and replacing him with Hughes/Bailey) to upgrade to Howard.