Yunel for Alex Gonzalez?

Post #1 » by **lpsevier** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:19 pm

We really must be planning on making a world series run this year. Terrible move long term imo.

Nemesis21 · Post #2 » by **Nemesis21** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:27 pm

Horrible trade for the Braves. Sometimes I wonder about Wren. I give him credit for adding Wagner and Glaus. This is just a horrible trade, Escobar is good, he just has maturity issues .

Gonzalez is 33, so with the possibility of Chipper retiring , we will be needing a 3b and SS . Wish we never did Teixiera trade because we'd still have Andrus .

bstrassburg · Post #3 » by **bstrassburg** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:29 pm

Still shocked about this. Braves are definitely in win-now mode, which isn't a bad thing. I surely won't miss Escobar's terrible bat this season and his poor attitude.

Definitely happy to see Jo-Jo Reyes finally gone though. Too bad we didn't sell him 3 years ago when he had more value.

Nemesis21 · Post #4 » by **Nemesis21** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:44 pm

thinking on this more, it is clear the Braves are looking to get deep into the playoffs and possibly the World Series. I just think we could have got better in return. But this trade is horrible for us long term .

bstrassburg · Post #5 » by **bstrassburg** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:55 pm

Nemesis21 wrote:thinking on this more, it is clear the Braves are looking to get deep into the playoffs and possibly the World Series. I just think we could have got better in return. But this trade is horrible for us long term .

Absolutely, I have told people that I will take a 10 year World Series drought as long as we win it this year, Frank Wren may be taking the same approach.

I don't think it's an absolute killer long-term, Alex Gonzalez has a reasonable option next year of $2.5 million, which is basically what Escobar would have made through arbitration. Whether we keep him for that or move Infante to our regular SS, it's not a serious downgrade. The next 2 years after 2011 will be interesting, but at worst, we sign an Alex Gonzalez-type to take over until Salcedo is ready.

I do think we could have gotten better, especially considering Yunel would have been a cornerstone in a Peavy deal in the 2008-2009 offseason.

When it comes down to it, the 2010 Atlanta Braves is the best chance we have of winning a World Series and we certainly have enough reasons to get it done this season. If Gonzalez comes in and keeps up the numbers that he is putting up with the Blue Jays and gets us there, no matter what happens in the future, this will have been worth it.

Nemesis21 · Post #6 » by **Nemesis21** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:14 pm

bstrassburg wrote:
Nemesis21 wrote:thinking on this more, it is clear the Braves are looking to get deep into the playoffs and possibly the World Series. I just think we could have got better in return. But this trade is horrible for us long term .

Absolutely, I have told people that I will take a 10 year World Series drought as long as we win it this year, Frank Wren may be taking the same approach.

I don't think it's an absolute killer long-term, Alex Gonzalez has a reasonable option next year of $2.5 million, which is basically what Escobar would have made through arbitration. Whether we keep him for that or move Infante to our regular SS, it's not a serious downgrade. The next 2 years after 2011 will be interesting, but at worst, we sign an Alex Gonzalez-type to take over until Salcedo is ready.

I do think we could have gotten better, especially considering Yunel would have been a cornerstone in a Peavy deal in the 2008-2009 offseason.

When it comes down to it, the 2010 Atlanta Braves is the best chance we have of winning a World Series and we certainly have enough reasons to get it done this season. If Gonzalez comes in and keeps up the numbers that he is putting up with the Blue Jays and gets us there, no matter what happens in the future, this will have been worth it.

Forgot about him. Is he in A ball or AA ball ? He could not be ready for ATL till after 2012.

Anybody know anything on the prospects we got in this trade ?

Post #7 » by **Schad** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:41 pm

Nemesis21 wrote:Forgot about him. Is he in A ball or AA ball ? He could not be ready for ATL till after 2012.

Anybody know anything on the prospects we got in this trade ?

Jays fan and resident prospect porn connoisseur. Collins is a former undrafted free agent that we picked up because JP Ricciardi's dad told him to...which probably isn't the most reassuring thing to hear, but the kid is good. He's somewhere around 5'5"-5'6", 140 and only turns 21 in August, but his peripherals in AA are spectacular (and have been for a couple years): 15.3 K/9, low HR rate, very low opponent's batting average, and left-handed. Probably a solid 7th or 8th inning guy down the road, though that could be as soon as next season if the Braves organization is feeling frisky...he's not just a LOOGY, because he's equally good against righties.

Pastornicky is your quintessential coach's son...really high baseball IQ, not a tonne of physical talent save for very good speed. Pretty good defense as SS, and he can work a walk well enough that he should make it either as a low-average major league shortstop or a utilityman. Like Collins, though, he's young (20 for the duration of the year), and he has started to show a little pop...if that develops, he could be above-average SS in 3-4 years.

bstrassburg · Post #8 » by **bstrassburg** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:45 pm

Salcedo is playing in Rome and not exactly lighting it up (granted he's like 100 ABs into his pro baseball career). I'd say 2013 sounds like a reasonable goal.

bstrassburg · Post #9 » by **bstrassburg** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:13 pm

Schadenfreude wrote:
Nemesis21 wrote:Forgot about him. Is he in A ball or AA ball ? He could not be ready for ATL till after 2012.

Anybody know anything on the prospects we got in this trade ?

Jays fan and resident prospect porn connoisseur. Collins is a former undrafted free agent that we picked up because JP Ricciardi's dad told him to...which probably isn't the most reassuring thing to hear, but the kid is good. He's somewhere around 5'5"-5'6", 140 and only turns 21 in August, but his peripherals in AA are spectacular (and have been for a couple years): 15.3 K/9, low HR rate, very low opponent's batting average, and left-handed. Probably a solid 7th or 8th inning guy down the road, though that could be as soon as next season if the Braves organization is feeling frisky...he's not just a LOOGY, because he's equally good against righties.

Pastornicky is your quintessential coach's son...really high baseball IQ, not a tonne of physical talent save for very good speed. Pretty good defense as SS, and he can work a walk well enough that he should make it either as a low-average major league shortstop or a utilityman. Like Collins, though, he's young (20 for the duration of the year), and he has started to show a little pop...if that develops, he could be above-average SS in 3-4 years.

Thanks for the inside info!

Post #10 » by **lpsevier** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:32 pm

I just hope Gonzalez can keep some form of pop for us, because he does not get on base....

graymule · Post #11 » by **graymule** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:33 am

Read some posts that thought the new reliefer was just too small. Go back many, many
years into baseball history and check out Bobby Shantz. Not sure if that's the exact
spelling. He was a starting picher in the majors - - All Star quality pitching.

I recall some wag saying that when a batter faced him, it was like the ball was coming
up out of the ground! He wasn't THAT short, but you get the idea. Size doesn't really
matter. If he can put the ball over the corner of the plate with something on it, he
can find a place in baseball.

Gray Mule

Post #12 » by **HMFFL** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:16 am

Alex has a club option for next season that pays him $2.5 million. Yunel Escobar has been terrible this season and I understand why we moved him.

MagicSeminole · Post #13 » by **MagicSeminole** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:07 pm

I don't know how I feel about this trade. I like that we got 2 decent prospects for Jo-Jo Reyes (who I don't think will amount to much ever). I saw Escobar play in Spring Training the first year he started at Short for us and made the team and I loved him. He played with a passion, and an electric spark that enthused his teammates and a fire that couldn't be matched. For some reason, that spark has slowly dimmed the last few years and it truly has been sad to see him transform into a malcontent amongst a team with the best chemistry in baseball. He really was our only bad apple on this team and played like it many times. Although we probably could have done better in getting a little more for him, I can see why Wren made the move he did and when he did. Getting him out before his attitude spread or caused problems we don't need in the midst of a playoff Run was key imo. I guess we will only see how this deal turns out to be, because I suspect he will turn it around in Toronto as he has tremendous talent and will probably develop that spark again as he most likely will be fueled to show the world Wren was wrong, but I really like Gonzalez. And I really really like Wren saying, we're not just happy to be in the Race, we want to win the Series THIS YEAR by making this deal. And with a relatively cheap option next year, it allows us flexibility for the upcoming year with his 2.5 Million dollar option. Then, hopefully Wren can go out and find a Glaus-like SS holdover until Salcedois ready for the Bigs, but overall I'm sad to see Escy go, but happy to see Gonzalez (and hopefully some of his pop and power) arrive. Let's sned Bobby out a winner-the way he deserves!

aligator · Post #14 » by **aligator** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:50 pm

TO fans are happy with this deal for the most part. The Jaya have had good luck with many latin players and probably offer a better environment for their development. The GM feels that whatever has gone astray with Escobar can be fixed. For Braves, it appears to be a win now move and there's nothing wrong with that. Gonzalez is having a very good season and certainly won't hurt you. As for the prospects, Pastornicky is solid but I think he projects more as a utilty than a starter. Think he will make it to the show at least. Collins is the wild card. I sometimes think he is over hyped because his underdog story is such a good one. Still, he is having an all star year at AA as the 2nd youngest player in the league. No one in TO will begrudge either one of these prospects success in Atlanta and I for one hope they, as well as Alex, work out for you. If Escobar can return to form, everyone should be happy.

Post #15 » by **HMFFL** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:07 pm

Toronto Fans,

Maybe the AL is going to be a better fit for Jo-Jo Reyes. He was very frustrating for me to watch during his time with the Braves because we gave him so many opportunities and he failed 99% of the time.

bstrassburg · Post #16 » by **bstrassburg** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:24 pm

Braves have Gonzalez hitting 7th today. Have to admit, I like not seeing Escobar in there.

Nemesis21 · Post #17 » by **Nemesis21** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:02 pm

bstrassburg wrote:Braves have Gonzalez hitting 7th today. Have to admit, I like not seeing Escobar in there.

Heyward is back in the lineup batting 2nd.

Relentless88 · Post #18 » by **Relentless88** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:45 pm

Escobar just hit a grand slam.

Peteros · Post #19 » by **Peteros** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:39 pm

3 for 3 with 5 RBI'S so far!

Nemesis21 · Post #20 » by **Nemesis21** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 8:05 pm

What's done is done. Maybe he should have been more mature here. He has all the potential in the world to be a good SS, just couldn't put it together in ATL.