The same old story EVERY SINGLE SEASON

[mr_sunshine]

And there goes the division. I f'in hate Francona and Gagne.

[The Rondo Show]

Nice series.

[VinnyTheMick]

I think Greener Pastures writes for the Boston Herald

[Bleeding Green]

Do these people realize that the division is meaningless and that the Red Sox are like 6 games up on the Wild Card? It's almost impossible to miss the playoffs at this point.

I get that people want the division, but it doesn't mean ****. The only thing that matters is that trophy in October. At least, I think so. Maybe some people really want the division title for whatever reason.

I'd love to see the division title, but what does it matter in the end?

[NH_soxfan14]

^ I agree with you 100 %, It doesnt matter who wins the division or the wild card anymore. If you make it to the playoffs then you have a shot at the trophy.

[alwayslovetheceltics]

i want the division i want the momentum going into the playoffs.

im tired of the yankees winning it. we need to take the f'n crown. we need manny back.

[Bleeding Green]

Yeah, it's nice to win the division--I want the Red Sox to win the division. But not at the expense of bringing Manny back early or not resting players who need rest.

Momentum is meaningless. Look at the Cardinals (12-17 in final 29 games; 3-9 in final 12) and Tigers (12-16 to finish year; ended season on 5 game losing streak) last year; they both ended the season on horrible losing streaks. The 2005 Red Sox finished the season on a 36-22 streak; where did they go exactly? I'm cherrypicking here, but I just point it out to show that it's not really necessary to end the year strong. As long as everyone is reasonably healthy I'm happy.

A huge factor in the playoffs is luck. Which team is luckiest and happens to play well above their actual talent level come October? The Cardinals were an awful, awful team last year until the playoffs rolled around. Then they kicked ass.

Getting Gagne straightened out would be really nice, even if it did lead to another loss. Of course, they could alleviate this by using him in non-crucial situations.

[ReggieFULLeffect]

Stop trying to make losing this division meaningless. Yea, you'll make the playoffs regardless in almost all of the scenarios but still, losing this division after holding a 14 game lead is psychologically devastating. This division means a lot to the franchise -- this will be a tremendous meltdown for the Sox if they lose this.

Yankees fans should be the ones not caring about the division and just caring about the playoffs since they've been essentially out of the postseason all season. Believe me, it stands for a lot if the Sox lose that division.

[The Rondo Show]

Stop trying to make losing this division meaningless. Yea, you'll make the playoffs regardless in almost all of the scenarios but still, losing this division after holding a 14 game lead is psychologically devastating. This division means a lot to the franchise -- this will be a tremendous meltdown for the Sox if they lose this.

Yankees fans should be the ones not caring about the division and just caring about the playoffs since they've been essentially out of the postseason all season. Believe me, it stands for a lot if the Sox lose that division.

People were saying the same thing about the Tigers last year and gave them absolutely no chance against the Yankees because they choked their big division lead while the Yankees were on fire yet the Tigers marched into Yankee Stadium and stomped the Yankees.

Chicago was brutal down the stretch and nearly did the same in '05, but managed to win the division by a game or on a tie breaker...they ended up in the World Series.

Obviously, all Red Sox fans would prefer if they held onto the division..but you're getting very carried away with how "crushed they'd be emotionally".

It's as if an entirely new season begins when the calendar changes to October.

Like BG said, if it comes down to us blowing the division because they are going to be cautious with Manny and Youkilis-- well, I'd rather have them guaranteed to be healthy in the playoffs as the Wild Card than to have them risk injury and hold onto the division yet have Youkilis or Manny miss the playoffs or not be 100% healthy for them.

[nykgeneralmanager]

People were saying the same thing about the Tigers last year and gave them absolutely no chance against the Yankees because they choked their big division lead while the Yankees were on fire yet the Tigers marched into Yankee Stadium and stomped the Yankees.

Chicago was brutal down the stretch and nearly did the same in '05, but managed to win the division by a game or on a tie breaker...they ended up in the World Series.

Obviously, all Red Sox fans would prefer if they held onto the division..but you're getting very carried away with how "crushed they'd be emotionally".

It's as if an entirely new season begins when the calendar changes to October.

Like BG said, if it comes down to us blowing the division because they are going to be cautious with Manny and Youkilis-- well, I'd rather have them guaranteed to be healthy in the playoffs as the Wild Card than to have them risk injury and hold onto the division yet have Youkilis or Manny miss the playoffs or not be 100% healthy for them.

I do agree with your overall point about playing well down the stretch maybe being overrated, because if your pitcher throws a gem in game 1 suddenly all is forgiven. However, I do think there are major differences between the Red Sox and the Tigers of 2006 or the White Sox of 2005. For the most part, the Tigers and White Sox were healthy (Zumaya was hurt) but just simply not playing well.

The Red Sox have their concerns. Gagne has been awful, Okajima is tired and not pitching well, Matsuzaka has never pitched this much and has showed signs of being tired, and Papelbon has struggled. Manny has been out and Youk went down (although I expect both to be 100% even before the playoffs so no worries there). But the point is that the Red Sox are struggling because what was their strength (pitching) has now because a legit question mark. The Tigers and White Sox didn't have those concerns, as I said they just struggled in the last couple of weeks.

Also, you can't try to minimize the effect of what would be the biggest collapse in the regular season in baseball history (14.5 games). And the fact that it would be the Red Sox giving up that lead to the Yankees just makes it that much more of a spectacle. Those are two other things that neither the Tigers or White Sox dealt with going into the playoffs.

But like I said, I may have just wasted my time with this post if Beckett gives up 1 run in 7 innings in game 1 and all is right in the world. That's how baseball is.

[celtsloyalty]

I'm going to go ahead and say that I haven't been happy with Franconas decisions this year. Even before the half way point of the season when Okajima was lighting it up I thought Francona was using him too often. Especially since he has only pitched in 50 or more games during a season 5 times in his career and has never pitched a 60 game season. Plus the seasons are shorter (by 22 or 32 games?). I know it's hard for a coach to not put in the best players in the bullpen in a close game but from my perspective I could see this burnout coming. Same with Matsuzaka, I could see it coming.. from like 70 games ago.. I watched Francona give Matsuzaka an extra inning in multiple games that he wouldn't have given his other starters. Also I thought that Matsuzake could have used a game or two rest at the beginning of September after giving up 5 or more runs in 3 out of four of his prior starts. Similar to what the Yankees did with Mussina and obviously that worked out for him.
So I'm definitly not happy with Francona because even I saw these two problems coming. Interesting stats.. Matsuzaka is leading the starters in games started (30) to next best Wakefield (29)/ Becket 28), Number of pitches (3,245) next best Becket (2,888) / Wakefield (2694), and inning's pitched (190), next best Becket (188.2)/ Wakefield (177).
Okajima is leading relievers in games (64) next best Lopez (57)/ Pap (55), Innings pitched (67), next best Pap (55) / Snyder (53.1),and Number of pitches (1,034) Next Snyder (945)/ Pap (876).
If you look closely those numbers actually have the words "wtf was francona thinking" incrypted into them.

Another thing is the whole I'm not going to give up on a player bs. Yes we probably need JD Drew for the playoffs so I can understand (I guess) contunining to play him through his slumps (plus he's 14 million a year so we better play him). But after Lugo went .209 in May after having a sub par Mar. and April, then I would have started Cora, who was on fire at the time, for atleast a week or so. I mean Pedroia was a totally different situation, a guy who was in a slump and just needed to get his confidence up. NOT a seasoned veteran. But instead Francona let him play out the month of June hitting .089! I like Lugo and wanted him to succeed but I just consider that piling the pressure on at that point, not "working through it". And now it seems Francona is going to continue to torture us with Gagne giving up go ahead runs in the eighth and ninth innings, when we only have a game and a half on the Yankees. Grow some balls and tell Gagne he can play through it in a couple uncrutial 6th innings. Please. Does he want to get on his knees and call the Yankees his daddy when they pass us?

[Bleeding Green]

Ah, logic and reason.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=534

[celtsloyalty]

Ah, logic and reason.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=534

eh.. winners want to win.. not come in second

[Bleeding Green]

Yeah, that's what the playoffs are for. Do you value a division title that much that you'd sacrifice having every player ready to go fully healthy and rested for the playoffs for it?

I'm all for making sure everyone is ready to go for the playoffs. Get Gagne straightened out, Youkilis rested, Manny rested, Varitek rested, get Kielty and Hinske some atbats, rest Okajima, etc.

[alwayslovetheceltics]

greg zaun. coming up big in the clutch. how awesome. now time to shut the door.

[mr_sunshine]

greg zaun. coming up big in the clutch. how awesome. now time to shut the door.

**** yah! Zaun in this man. I'm happy to see the Sox offense get bakc on track.

[sunshinekids99]

Man Aaron Hill did everything he could do to give that game away. Atleast the Jays ended up winning.

[alwayslovetheceltics]

damn you aaron hill. a hit there would have been awesome. hughes is already at 99 pitches, hopefullly the jays knock him out during the 6th or hopefully he breaks something go to the dug out.

[alwayslovetheceltics]

damn. dice k better bring his A game tonight

[alwayslovetheceltics]

this is a gutsy performance by the jays. nice comeback. hopefully they can hold on to the lead.