TNBT wrote:Dirty Water wrote:Also - eventually I see Bard back in the bullpen as the closer. Melancon and Bailey setting him up. Jenks/Albers/Morales in middle relief. I think Aceves has better starter stuff and will end up being the #4 or #5 starter. Just my opinion.
As someone who is still learning about baseball, I found this post interesting but decided not to start a whole new thread about it. I'm curious as to what attributes make a pitcher fall into a particular category such as starter, set-up, relief, closer, etc. Can anyone enlighten me here?
That's a very good question. These clear concise roles are really something that has developed in baseball over the last couple decades. For the most part, relievers are always failed starters. Many do not have enough effective pitches in their repetoire to keep an entire line up off balance for 5,6,7,8,9 innings at a time. So generally, in the back-end of bullpens you see a lot of one or two trick ponies. Guys with maybe one or two really elite pitches, but never developed a lot of secondary pitches such as a good curveball or change-up.
Generally, a healthy inning count for a starting pitcher in a season is 200 IP (closer to 275 IP before relivf pitchers became so prominant in MLB). Most relivers generally do not pitch more than 60-85 IP in a season. They are called upon for 1 or 2 innings about every other day, therefore there is general stanima they must keep in the long run. Starters on the other hand stretch themselves out fully all in one day, every 5 days. As a result of this, a lot of pitchers with high velocity lose 3-4 mph on their fastball when they are stretched out into a starter. Thus, a lot of some of these one or two trick pony flame-throwing pitchers become ultimately very ineffective without a 97-98 mph fastball and no other elite pitch to get them through tough lineups. It is very rare to seeflame throwers in starting roles these days in the majors. Nolan Ryan, Pedro Martinez, Randy Johnson, Justin Verlander are a few, but these are the elite. And they don't come around very much.
Daniel Bard is almost a perfect microcosm for this reliever/starter philosphy. He has an elite fastball that can reach 100 mph. And also has a very devastating slider which is one of his out pitches. But asside from that, his change-up and 2-seamer haven't developed as well as some scouts may have thought they might. So his ability to get guys out over a 6 or 7 inning span may be harder. When he was in his usual 8th inning role, he doesn't need to keep hitters guessing and off balance over a span of 2 or 3 times through the lineup. He just needed to blow them away with his fastball, and keep them hoenst with his slider.
Sorry for the late response. I hope this answers some of your questions. I'm not on their forum as much as I used to.
Bard may ultimately have some success as a starter. It's really hard to tell. The last time the Red Sox tried something like this Papelbon was immediately sent back into the bullpen because they were weak there. Before Him, Derek Lowe succeeded being stretched back into a starter because he had better command, control and a better repetoire than just a devastating fastball (which he never had).