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Posted: **Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:35 pm**

Ok. This is Wily's second year here. I realize that a lot of Redsox Nation is still questioning that trade with Cinci a few years ago. But im not. Does anyone still have faith in Wily Mo? I really think that he could be a very good player. Im not gonna throw out numbers or anything, or comparisions, i just think that with a fair chance, he could be something.

Papi was actually a lot like Willy with the Twins. He was a big, strong, unproven power hitter. Look at him now. The reason Ortiz is so good is because he got a chance. And he knew that he wasn't competing for the job.

So my point is, i think if Wily knew that he had a whole season as a starter, then his confidence would go way up, and he could ease into a very nice role as a big RBI guy here in Boston.

Hes got a lot of potential, but getting 1 or 2 starts a week for the second year in a row isnt doing him any good. He could give us so much more.

Posted: **Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:32 pm**

I completely agree with you. Pena is still raw but that doesn't change the fact he has enormous potential. His main problem is experience and recognizing pitches, these things will only get better with at bats and with time in the lineup. Right now he seems frustrated about his lack of playing time which isn't good but I hope he realizes that he has to work extra hard now to earn his spot. He isn't more of a liability than Crisp with his weak arm in the field, for his size he's actually fine in center field and he has a cannon of an arm as we once again saw today.

To me he has one chance and that's taking Crisp's spot in center field. Crisp is horrible, plain and simple horrible at the plate, has no power and his speed is a bit overrated too. If Pena realizes that he has a chance to earn an everyday job he should start to care a bit more about his at bats, put in extra work and get all the help he can get. No unmotivated swings, no first pitch pop ups, no lackluster effort at the plate... all these things has to stop. He's still young but at some point he has to show improvement. He's actually in a perfect situation here in Boston, he can learn from other great power hitters and he has loads of talent around him.

Posted: **Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:22 pm**

That guy looks like Jabu from Major League trying to hit a curve ball. I think I could've come closer to hitting that ball than he did.

Posted: **Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:52 pm**

He took a walk today which was an encouraging sign.

Posted: **Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:21 am**

Ortiz never had the strike out problem that Pena has, so I don't think they are similar, other then that they're both power hitters that need/needed developing.
Pena does need to be a full time starter to be an effective hitter though. His timing and focus is all off when he gets weekly starts. It's actually pretty embarassing how off it was today. There were a couple pitches that if I was at bat even I clearly wouldn't have swung at. So this makes him an ineffective player at this point unless there is an injury. Overall he is a really clumsy player both in the field and at bat, but when he connects with the ball it is going to be hit hard and far.
Crisp could be a huge asset to this team if he starts hitting like he did 2 and 3 years ago. He's at the bottom of the lineup so he can be agressive and steal some bases. Other then his weak arm he will make a lot of catches that Pena will never be able to make and can cover a lot more ground. Hopefully he keeps his head up and within the next couple weeks starts to slowly pull his BA up. I will have patience with him until about halfway through the season.

Posted: **Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:39 am**

celtsloyalty wrote:Ortiz never had the strike out problem that Pena has, so I don't think they are similar, other then that they're both power hitters that need/needed developing.
Pena does need to be a full time starter to be an effective hitter though. His timing and focus is all off when he gets weekly starts. It's actually pretty embarassing how off it was today. There were a couple pitches that if I was at bat even I clearly wouldn't have swung at. So this makes him an ineffective player at this point unless there is an injury. Overall he is a really clumsy player both in the field and at bat, but when he connects with the ball it is going to be hit hard and far.
Crisp could be a huge asset to this team if he starts hitting like he did 2 and 3 years ago. He's at the bottom of the lineup so he can be agressive and steal some bases. Other then his weak arm he will make a lot of catches that Pena will never be able to make and can cover a lot more ground. Hopefully he keeps his head up and within the next couple weeks starts to slowly pull his BA up. I will have patience with him until about halfway through the season.

Wrong. Wily Mo has surprising range in CF and is atleat passable if not slightly above average in center. Crisp has excellent speed but he seems to get bad jumps or takes poor routes and he gets burned. If you want to use the sabermetric stats of rate and rate2, WMP comes out ahead in both. Coco was barely average last season (99 rate, 100 rate2 where 100 is average) whereas WMP was a 105 rate and 106 rate2 (rate2 adjusts for league difficulty and normalizes over time). For his career, WMP has 107/8 while Coco has 93 for both. Crisp has a career 110/111 rate/rate2 in LF for his career while WMP has a career 89 in RF. So I think that shows that Crisp should be in LF and WMP in CF (although Manny makes that difficult).

If you want to use ESPN available defensive stats, Crisp has a 2.49 Range Factor and a .837 Zone Rating. Wily Mo had a 2.74 RF and a .868 ZR. For his career, Crisp has a 2.46 RF and a .857 ZR while WMP has 2.99 RF and .866 ZR. Now, Wily has a much smaller sample size because of his lack of playing time but the stats clearly say that Wily Mo is atleast comprable to Crisp defensively. He gets pretty good jumps and takes considerably better routes than he does in RF and he has a much stronger throwing arm. Combine that with his increased production at the plate and Wily Mo is the better option in CF. Unless Crisp really starts hitting soon, I am all for a straight up platoon if not WMP taking over permentantly. mahalo
~Chach~

Posted: **Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:02 am**

I've always liked Wily Mo, he's got a great arm and pop in the bat, and if Crisp keeps faltering I'd like to see a mix-up. I missed the game today, is Pena still using that bottom of the barrel of the bat grip? I assume (after the injury) that he's switched up the grip. Haven't they made that style illegal amongst the farm system teams?

Posted: **Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:12 pm**

Chach wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Wrong. Wily Mo has surprising range in CF and is atleat passable if not slightly above average in center. Crisp has excellent speed but he seems to get bad jumps or takes poor routes and he gets burned. If you want to use the sabermetric stats of rate and rate2, WMP comes out ahead in both. Coco was barely average last season (99 rate, 100 rate2 where 100 is average) whereas WMP was a 105 rate and 106 rate2 (rate2 adjusts for league difficulty and normalizes over time). For his career, WMP has 107/8 while Coco has 93 for both. Crisp has a career 110/111 rate/rate2 in LF for his career while WMP has a career 89 in RF. So I think that shows that Crisp should be in LF and WMP in CF (although Manny makes that difficult).

If you want to use ESPN available defensive stats, Crisp has a 2.49 Range Factor and a .837 Zone Rating. Wily Mo had a 2.74 RF and a .868 ZR. For his career, Crisp has a 2.46 RF and a .857 ZR while WMP has 2.99 RF and .866 ZR. Now, Wily has a much smaller sample size because of his lack of playing time but the stats clearly say that Wily Mo is atleast comprable to Crisp defensively. He gets pretty good jumps and takes considerably better routes than he does in RF and he has a much stronger throwing arm. Combine that with his increased production at the plate and Wily Mo is the better option in CF. Unless Crisp really starts hitting soon, I am all for a straight up platoon if not WMP taking over permentantly. mahalo
~Chach~

I went by mlb.com.. crisp's rangefactor in 2006 was 2.49 and Pena's was 2.31. But looking at the numbers you have it seems like they're pretty similar overall.
I appreciate the research you did.

Posted: **Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:30 pm**

No prob bob. Now don't get me wrong, Wily Mo is not Willie Mays. I believe the numbers you have are Wily's TOTAL OF range factor because he is pretty horrible in RF. If you check on ESPN, they break it up by actual position so the ones I posted were CF specific. Wily Mo and Coco seem to be pretty comprable in CF while Coco would be a better LF and WMP is pretty pretty bad in RF. With Lugo here to bat leadoff and give us speed at the top of the line-up, Coco really needs to hit well and get on base to offer anything. He has yet to do that in Boston so I'd rather see what Wily Mo can do. mahalo
~Chach~

Posted: **Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:25 am**

well how long do you think that pena shot tonight wouldve gone had those hotels not been there?

Posted: **Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:40 pm**

studcrackers wrote:well how long do you think that pena shot tonight wouldve gone had those hotels not been there?

That was some kinda shot...

Posted: **Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:55 pm**

studcrackers wrote:well how long do you think that pena shot tonight wouldve gone had those hotels not been there?

Probably would have left a nice welt on some poor kid in Winnipeg

Posted: **Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:12 am**

in a few years, i think our day-to-day outfield will consist of:

LF: Coco Crisp
CF: Jacob Ellsbury
RF: Wily Mo Pena

Posted: **Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:02 am**

Pena is complete garbage. He is like Manny Rameriz Jr. out there in the outfield, and the guy can't hit to save his life. Just throw him a curveball or changeup and the guy swings like a rusty gate

Posted: **Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:45 am**

Willy Mo is diappointing me big time. I was pretty happy with the trade originally and was always excited to see him get up to bat, but he has been a huge let down. I never want to see him play center again. That play tonight on Vernon Wells' triple was a little more than routine, but he looked like complete trash while going for the catch.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no Willy Mo basher. I'm still want to see more of him and hope he turns it around, but never in CF.

Posted: **Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:14 am**

He's actually a pretty decent center fielder. Just cause the guy made a horrible play doesn't mean he's horrible out there. The guy will be fine, he's in a slump right now. He can hit.

Posted: **Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:30 pm**

Hckyfn17 wrote:in a few years, i think our day-to-day outfield will consist of:

LF: Coco Crisp
CF: Jacob Ellsbury
RF: Wily Mo Pena

our outfield will never consist of both crisp and pena starting unless we have some serious injury problems. Where is Drew?

The problem with pena is he always swings to kill the ball. He rarely has check swings or swings for contact.

Posted: **Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:45 pm**

Everyone was excited about Pena last year so no need to change your opinion over like 20 atbats. Pena looks like a guy who needs consistent playing time and he really isn't going to get that until one of the outfielders gets hurt.

Posted: **Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:41 pm**

The only thing I don't like about Pena is that, for a guy his size and with his arms, he's got terrible plate coverage. He can't hit anything breaking/offspeed if it's pitched outside. That's a huge hole to have in one's swing. Even Quad-A guys are exploiting it.

Posted: **Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:49 am**

Does Wily Mo remind anyone else of Pedro Cerrano from Major League?