closer situation

Bcustom28k · Post #1 » by **Bcustom28k** » Sat Aug 4, 2007 2:38 am

For the playoffs and maybe sooner i would not be surprised if u see paperlbon get some spot starts.

next years starting rotaition

Josh Beckett
D Matsuzaka
Paps
Lester
Bucholz

WOWWW

Markos · Post #2 » by **Markos** » Sat Aug 4, 2007 4:24 am

Bcustom28k wrote:For the playoffs and maybe sooner i would not be surprised if u see paperlbon get some spot starts.

next years starting rotaition

Josh Beckett
D Matsuzaka
Paps
Lester
Bucholz

WOWWW

not gonna happen, sorry

Wakefield will still be here. Hes won 13 games so far for us and he only costs $4mill per season.

We may also see Masterson in that rotation at some point:)

Post #3 » by **Chach** » Sat Aug 4, 2007 4:56 am

Get it through your head people, PAPELBON HAS TWO PITCHES. He will not last as a starter and is one of the best closers in baseball. He has also worked out of the pen all year. There is NO chance at all that Papelbon comes out of the pen to ster this year, not a **** chance. Next year is another matter but this year, he's closing without a doubt. mahalo
~Chach~

Boston's Future · Post #4 » by **Boston's Future** » Sun Aug 5, 2007 3:01 am

Agreed. He should just stay as the teams closer, b/c well he only has TWO PITCHES. He embraces the role, he loves it. He will be more valueable as a closer than as a starter. Gange could get some save opps when Paps is overworked, but leave Paps as the closer

Post #5 » by **nykgeneralmanager** » Sun Aug 5, 2007 3:04 am

Markos wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

not gonna happen, sorry

Wakefield will still be here. Hes won 13 games so far for us and he only costs $4mill per season.

We may also see Masterson in that rotation at some point:)

From everything that I've read, there seems to be a general consensus that he will ultimately end up in the bullpen. Is that pure speculation or is it likely? I'm not really sure of what he throws, maybe he doesn't have enough pitches to be a starter in the majors?

The Rondo Show · Post #6 » by **The Rondo Show** » Sun Aug 5, 2007 4:01 am

nykgeneralmanager wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

From everything that I've read, there seems to be a general consensus that he will ultimately end up in the bullpen. Is that pure speculation or is it likely? I'm not really sure of what he throws, maybe he doesn't have enough pitches to be a starter in the majors?

Well, he is a sinkerballer so he doesn't really need great off-speed stuff. He has a slider and a changeup to go with his sinker, which was 90-94 in the "Future's @ Fenway" game last year. I've read his sinker is excellent, his slider is a very solid pitch and that he needs to improve the changeup.

Post #7 » by **Bleeding Green** » Sun Aug 5, 2007 5:31 am

He was a reliever, but I think he's shown that he can go deep into games and he has the stuff.

He's Doc Halladay.

Post #8 » by **Chach** » Sun Aug 5, 2007 7:15 am

nykgeneralmanager wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

From everything that I've read, there seems to be a general consensus that he will ultimately end up in the bullpen. Is that pure speculation or is it likely? I'm not really sure of what he throws, maybe he doesn't have enough pitches to be a starter in the majors?

It was up until about June. He seems to be developing his change enough to keep hitters off balance and swing at bad pitches. It's interesting to note (sss I know) but he is striking batters out at a considerable pace since getting promoted to AA versus his stats in Lancaster. I think if his change develops into a solid, average third pitch, the guy who be a Wang type pitcher who may not strike a ton of guys out but simply has batters pound the ball into the ground. mahalo
~Chach~

Post #9 » by **Bleeding Green** » Sun Aug 5, 2007 9:54 pm

And the cool thing is that Masterson reached AA a full year before Wang and he strikes out a lot more batters.

Wang averaged 7.43 K/9 in AA and Masterson is dropping 10.38 K/9 on Eastern League suckers. Granted this is just a 39 IP sample for Masterson.

Post #10 » by **nykgeneralmanager** » Mon Aug 6, 2007 1:44 am

I don't know how good his sinker is, but it may be too soon to compare it to Wang's. Wang is really a rare breed that he's much worse if he is striking guys out because that happens when he elevates his pitches, which obviously makes him a flyball pitcher. The less Ks for Wang the better he is usually pitching. There have been a number of hitters who have said Wang's sinker is the best they have ever seen and they have no shot of lifting it into the air.

Bcustom28k · Post #11 » by **Bcustom28k** » Mon Aug 6, 2007 2:20 pm

If you dont think Papelbon has the "stuff" to be a starter you are very very wrong. Did u not see him in august 2 years ago?? and that was 2 years ago he now has gained confidence as a closer. im not saying hes gonna be a better starter than closer... but i think he is better than wang... another sinkerball slider guy.

Post #12 » by **Chach** » Mon Aug 6, 2007 10:11 pm

Bcustom28k wrote:If you dont think Papelbon has the "stuff" to be a starter you are very very wrong. Did u not see him in august 2 years ago?? and that was 2 years ago he now has gained confidence as a closer. im not saying hes gonna be a better starter than closer... but i think he is better than wang... another sinkerball slider guy.

Papelbon doesn't have a sinker. He throws a four seam fastball, a split finger fastball (probably what you are confusing with a sinker) and a slider that is mediocre.

I've followed Papelbon since he was drafted so yes, I do remember those games. And if you remember them, he couldn't get out of the 6th inning in any of those three starts because he ran up high pitch counts. I'm not saying he can't be a starter in the future but today, as it stands, he has two pitches and two pitches won't get you far as a starter. He needs to bring back the curve he scrapped from college, refine his slider, or work more on his change-up. I've seen him throw a few change-ups and he blew a save on it in one game because it was so bad the hitter just teed off. Not to mention the fact that he doesn't have the endurance to pitch 6-7 innings regularly because he's spent the last three months in the pen. You're talking about trying to work up his endurance over the next month and by September, maybe he can go 100-110 pitches with regularity. So when you combine his lack of a real third pitch and endurance, it would be extremely foolish to put him into the rotation today. Spring training is another debate but today, not a chance.

And he's actually the complete opposite of Wang. Wang induces a lot of weak contact from batters. Papelbon's fastball and sinker are legit swing and miss pitches, he strikes guys out more so than induce weak contact. And if you look at his GB/FB ratios, he's actually an extreme flyball pitcher (he gets .60 groundball outs for every flyball out). For reference, Wang gets 2.5 groundball outs for every flyball out and last year it was a 3-1 ratio. So no, they are completely different pitchers. mahalo
~Chach~

The Rondo Show · Post #13 » by **The Rondo Show** » Tue Aug 7, 2007 6:16 am

nykgeneralmanager wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

From everything that I've read, there seems to be a general consensus that he will ultimately end up in the bullpen. Is that pure speculation or is it likely? I'm not really sure of what he throws, maybe he doesn't have enough pitches to be a starter in the majors?

I just found an article from Goldstein posted today on Masterson and his stuff. It appears my report wasn't quite true as his changeup has improved a lot and his slider is average:

A second-round pick last year, Masterson